Politics

[John Wasmuth]

Interesting take from Alan Dershowitz over on Red State with respect to the possible protections afforded by the PRA and where Trump's likely greatest risk lies with respect to the Espionage Act (which, unlike the Logan Act, has been used to prosecute lots of people). As usual, it seems to be Trump's mouth that has most put him at risk).

If the prosecutors were able to identify the recipient of the information (I would assume that would have been fairly easy), and gained grand jury testimony from them, it could be particularly problematic.

“Part of it is, part of it isn’t. The material about simply possessing classified material is not a damning indictment. We knew it was coming. The [Presidential] Records Act probably is at least a potential defense to that. There are two damning paragraphs, just two, paragraph 34 and paragraph 35, where they have tape recordings of the former President basically acknowledging that some of the papers that he possessed and showed to a writer — I’ll just read you — so ‘as President I could’ve declassified it. Now I can’t, you know, but this is still [a] secret.’ …

So, I think this is a serious indictment on these two charges. Everything else I think is exactly what we expected. There’s no difference between that and what Hillary Clinton and others have done, not enough to justify this. It doesn’t meet what I call the Richard Nixon standard, which was very clear obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, paying bribes. This is too close a case to bring against a man running for president against the incumbent president. The only exception to that are these two paragraphs, and we’re going to have to hear an explanation from Trump’s lawyers or from Trump as to how he can justify having shown, to somebody who doesn’t have security clearance, allegedly some information about a plan to attack Iran.”

Which is what I think they’ll be able to hammer him on even if the other counts don’t stick. Pretty sure there is no way to justify telling anyone what was contained in the documents that didn’t hold a clearance to have knowledge of it or that it even existed.

 

[Scott CWO]

I thought I might have had the state wrong, I grant you that, but if you read the posts that you directed at me personally despite your sad denials, its obvious what your intent was, you are just not man enough to admit when you're wrong.
I dont recall saying you had no right to be mad at your friend, but why would you be? I said it was unfair of you to blame me and others with a different opinion on vaccines, to take or not.
I never met your friend, I dont talk on the radio or TV, or write articles about Covid, but that didnt matter to you.
I never told you how you should feel about your friends death, I even offered my own condolences but you were too busy being angry at me and others for somehow having a hand in it.
You should probably read the posts so you wont be so confused as you obviously are, especially in light of the fact that I had to go find the thread where the posts were made, that you obviously knew exactly what I was talking about but had to figure out some way to not look like the fool you are.
I was right about you all along and your feeble attempts to weasel out of this is more proof.
Weasel words, its what you do best.
I never stepped over the line, you did.
I proved that I am not paranoid which you have called me twice today, now prove you are man enough to admit you were wrong.
I wont hold my breath though, I would probably turn blue.

You are ridiculous. In post #458 I was nice to you and just pointed out that my dead friend lived a much more isolated life than you and he still died after coming in contact with one person with COVID. This could have happened to you. Luckily, it didn’t.

My post #477 was NOT a response to you and doesn’t follow or respond to your post, is clearly NOT a reply to your post #462 or mention you in any way. It was 19 posts after my #458 and 15 posts after your #462! This is where your paranoia started. All I did was say how upset I was about my friend dying without ANY mention of you or your previous posts!

Then, in YOUR post #496, you directly responded to my independent post #477 and attacked me out of the blue and lectured me about my friend and showed your paranoia that my post #477 was about you, which it clearly was not. You just couldn’t help yourself and had to keep going. You escalated and then I responded to your escalation.

In my post #502, I responded to your direct reply attack post in your post #496 where you attempted giving me lessons and telling me how I should feel and how my friend died. I’m not going to put up with direct attacks so the situation got worse from there. It’s all there in black and white. If you didn’t like my responses from then on, so be it. I stand behind them and will not put up with your direct attacks that started this whole mess.

Since then, I have “liked” many of your post on other subjects and put this attack episode that you started behind me. Clearly you have not. Go away please.

 

[sestoppelman]

You are ridiculous. In post #458 I was nice to you and just pointed out that my dead friend lived a much more isolated life than you and he still died after coming in contact with one person with COVID. This could have happened to you. Luckily, it didn’t.

My post #477 was NOT a response to you and doesn’t follow or respond to your post, is clearly NOT a reply to your post #462 or mention you in any way. It was 19 posts after my #458 and 15 posts after your #462! This is where your paranoia started. All I did was say how upset I was about my friend dying without ANY mention of you or your previous posts!

Then, in YOUR post #496, you directly responded to my independent post #477 and attacked me out of the blue and lectured me about my friend and showed your paranoia that my post #477 was about you, which it clearly was not. You just couldn’t help yourself and had to keep going. You escalated and then I responded to your escalation.

In my post #502, I responded to your direct reply attack post in your post #496 where you attempted giving me lessons and telling me how I should feel and how my friend died. I’m not going to put up with direct attacks so the situation got worse from there. It’s all there in black and white. If you didn’t like my responses from then on, so be it. I stand behind them and will not put up with your direct attacks that started this whole mess.

Since then, I have “liked” many of your post on other subjects and put this attack episode that you started behind me. Clearly you have not. Go away please.

Likewise, you are also ridiculous and its obvious you are unwilling or unable to see the other side of this or admit an obvious truth, so yes, I agree with you, please go away.

 

[Ray B]

the problem the Republicans and therefore the US faces is the duration of court process. On any of the dirt that the DNC thinks it has, it has lackies willing to charge & prosecute- then there are several hearings prior to trial and if it goes to trial the time frame would be after the election. As I have posted previously, I think the DNC doesn't care if they get a conviction or not. the election will be over and they will have had an enormous smear campaign that they figure will get Miss Shale elected- and maybe so.

 

[sestoppelman]

the problem the Republicans and therefore the US faces is the duration of court process. On any of the dirt that the DNC thinks it has, it has lackies willing to charge & prosecute- then there are several hearings prior to trial and if it goes to trial the time frame would be after the election. As I have posted previously, I think the DNC doesn't care if they get a conviction or not. the election will be over and they will have had an enormous smear campaign that they figure will get Miss Shale elected- and maybe so.

Unless she were to be drafted or shamed into running, I dont think Michelle My Belle has any interest in running. She has said before, she hated life in the WH.

 

[Wheels]

Interesting take from Alan Dershowitz over on Red State with respect to the possible protections afforded by the PRA and where Trump's likely greatest risk lies with respect to the Espionage Act (which, unlike the Logan Act, has been used to prosecute lots of people). As usual, it seems to be Trump's mouth that has most put him at risk).

If the prosecutors were able to identify the recipient of the information (I would assume that would have been fairly easy), and gained grand jury testimony from them, it could be particularly problematic.

“Part of it is, part of it isn’t. The material about simply possessing classified material is not a damning indictment. We knew it was coming. The [Presidential] Records Act probably is at least a potential defense to that. There are two damning paragraphs, just two, paragraph 34 and paragraph 35, where they have tape recordings of the former President basically acknowledging that some of the papers that he possessed and showed to a writer — I’ll just read you — so ‘as President I could’ve declassified it. Now I can’t, you know, but this is still [a] secret.’ …

So, I think this is a serious indictment on these two charges. Everything else I think is exactly what we expected. There’s no difference between that and what Hillary Clinton and others have done, not enough to justify this. It doesn’t meet what I call the Richard Nixon standard, which was very clear obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, paying bribes. This is too close a case to bring against a man running for president against the incumbent president. The only exception to that are these two paragraphs, and we’re going to have to hear an explanation from Trump’s lawyers or from Trump as to how he can justify having shown, to somebody who doesn’t have security clearance, allegedly some information about a plan to attack Iran.”

Trumps mouth is certainly his greatest liability.

We have Smith's take on the situation. We will have to wait and see Trump's attorney's take along with the Judge's.

Election season is going to be interesting this quadrennial.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Trumps mouth is certainly his greatest liability.

This is why he's in the situation. Does anyone think this doesn't occur, frequently?

Killary's bleached email server.
Pence found with documents.
Biden found with documents.

The entire Biden family needs to be investigated. They are all being smart and staying quiet.

Trump is simply being made an example of because he's been asking for it for 6 years. If he could have kept his mouth shut he probably wouldn't be in the situation he's in now.

I almost feel as though there's a conspiracy to let him go far enough to get the GOP nomination so they can be assured there's a Dem in for another 4 years. I feel if DeSantis or Haley can get the nomination we may have a shot at a GOP president.

 

[sestoppelman]

This is why he's in the situation. Does anyone think this doesn't occur, frequently?

Killary's bleached email server.
Pence found with documents.
Biden found with documents.

The entire Biden family needs to be investigated. They are all being smart and staying quiet.

Trump is simply being made an example of because he's been asking for it for 6 years. If he could have kept his mouth shut he probably wouldn't be in the situation he's in now.

I almost feel as though there's a conspiracy to let him go far enough to get the GOP nomination so they can be assured there's a Dem in for another 4 years. I feel if DeSantis or Haley can get the nomination we may have a shot at a GOP president.

Nonsense. The attacks on Trump started the day he announced his run in 2015, perhaps sooner and he has been defending himself from bogus charges ever since.
Talk too much?? Who could blame him?

 

[WAB]

Nonsense. The attacks on Trump started the day he announced his run in 2015, perhaps sooner and he has been defending himself from bogus charges ever since.
Talk too much?? Who could blame him?

I blame him. His mouth is the reason we have Biden for President and the Democrats controlling the senate!

 

[HookMeUpII]

Nonsense. The attacks on Trump started the day he announced his run in 2015, perhaps sooner and he has been defending himself from bogus charges ever since.
Talk too much?? Who could blame him?

I keep restating this but I voted for him, all 3 times. Primary, 2016, and 2020. His mouth was the reason for the attacks, all the way back to 2015. There's people who just don't get it. He's one of them. He brought this all on himself. You can walk the walk WITHOUT talking the talk.

If he just had shut his mouth he would have been one of the greatest presidents this country had ever seen.

Hell, if he ends up getting the nomination for GOP I will vote for him again. However, there is 0% chance I vote for him in the primary. I'm 75% on DeSantis but I have to decide. I refuse to ever vote Dem.

 

[shootist~]

Good grief. They have Trump on tape telling his book guy "off the record" they are looking at (still) top secret invasion plans for Iran. He's not a victim, he's a dumb-ass.

 

[wesheltonj]

I blame him. His mouth is the reason we have Biden for President and the Democrats controlling the senate!

I agree with you on the Senate (Georgia) however I disagree with you on Biden. We have him, because the National R party was not able to see and stop the vote harvesting.

At least the National Chairwoman is now pushing for early voting. But I have not heard a word about vote harvesting. Where is legal the R’s need to start and where is not the R’s need to make sure it does not occur.

 

[sestoppelman]

I blame him. His mouth is the reason we have Biden for President and the Democrats controlling the senate!

I disagree. We have Biden because Trump tried to drain the swamp and was met at every turn with resistance from all sides, and all branches of govt, and all branches of LE from the CIA, the FBI and everything in between.
Two fake impeachments over things that Biden himself has done worse and bragged about?
Have we already forgotten all the fake scandals perpetrated by the left? Russia Russia Russia?
Short memory syndrome going on around here.

 

[Red Leg]

I know this "drain the swamp" mantra seems very important to Trump supporters. The term has popped up often over the previous pages. But can anyone point to a single thing Trump did to pull this supposed plug (and, by the way, tell me where it might be located)? It is meant as a serious question.

Our representatives in both the House and Senate are elected by the people to represent their local interests whether districts or states. I assume Trump did not intend to abolish the constitution (whatever may have been in his mind on Jan 6). So he must not have been speaking about Congress. He certainly did nothing to champion term limits.

The Department and Agency heads were appointed by - drum roll - Trump. I think we can assume that they performed their duties as desired by the President or were replaced by him. Not sure what any of them did to "drain the swamp." I don't seem to remember a wholesale housecleaning, whatever that might actually mean, of the FBI, CIA, or Department of State to name a few.

I specifically remember he promised a five-year cooling off period for former appointees before they became lobbyists. Nothing was done in that regard of which I am aware, and his former administration officials seem to be quite busy on K Street.

And how about Federal bureaucracy? Not only did it not contract, it continued to grow.

Now, it could be that Trump was simply misled or betrayed by everyone he trusted to get something done (a refrain that appears among his apologist blogs), or perhaps he actually had some familiarity with the constitution with respect to congress. But, I think it is far more likely he was and is pandering to his loyal sycophants just like any other politician trying to solidify support. And of course, it is such a catchy phrase.

I think he also used it to highlight to his supporters any agency (EPA comes to mind) that seemed to get in the way of his agenda. I would assume that most o his supporters were fine with that, but he wasn't draining anything unless it was rhetorically.

My only point is that a Donald Trump has no more problem cynically manipulating his supporters than any other politician - perhaps more so since he is personally at such legal risk. It simply behooves all of us to separate that nonsense from reality regardless of our candidate or party.

 

[John Wasmuth]

I know this "drain the swamp" mantra seems very important to Trump supporters. The term has popped up often over the previous pages. But can anyone point to a single thing Trump did to pull this supposed plug (and, by the way, tell me where it might be located)? It is meant as a serious question.

Our representatives in both the House and Senate are elected by the people to represent their local interests whether districts or states. I assume Trump did not intend to abolish the constitution (whatever may have been in his mind on Jan 6). So he must not have been speaking about Congress. He certainly did nothing to champion term limits.

The Department and Agency heads were appointed by - drum roll - Trump. I think we can assume that they performed their duties as desired by the President or were replaced by him. Not sure what any of them did to "drain the swamp." I don't seem to remember a wholesale housecleaning, whatever that might actually mean, of the FBI, CIA, or Department of State to name a few.

I specifically remember he promised a five-year cooling off period for former appointees before they became lobbyists. Nothing was done in that regard of which I am aware, and his former administration officials seem to be quite busy on K Street.

And how about Federal bureaucracy? Not only did it not contract, it continued to grow.

Now, it could be that Trump was simply misled or betrayed by everyone he trusted to get something done (a refrain that appears among his apologist blogs), or perhaps he actually had some familiarity with the constitution with respect to congress. But, I think it is far more likely he was and is pandering to his loyal sycophants just like any other politician trying to solidify support. And of course, it is such a catchy phrase.

I think he also used it to highlight to his supporters any agency (EPA comes to mind) that seemed to get in the way of his agenda. I would assume that most o his supporters were fine with that, but he wasn't draining anything unless it was rhetorically.

My only point is that a Donald Trump has no more problem cynically manipulating his supporters than any other politician - perhaps more so since he is personally at such legal risk. It simply behooves all of us to separate that nonsense from reality regardless of our candidate or party.

He, Trump, made a lot of mistakes. Number one being that he never had the DOJ go after HRC in such a way as Biden has gone after him. #2 being that he left most of the Obama admin in place along with the White House staff and everyone involved in the daily humdrum operations. Number 3 was listening to a lot of BS from people he appointed that didn’t have the entire countries best interests at heart. I’m sure that there are more and it would have been great if his team had taken the time to explain how the constitution actually works.

 

[wesheltonj]

He, Trump, made a lot of mistakes. Number one being that he never had the DOJ go after HRC in such a way as Biden has gone after him. #2 being that he left most of the Obama admin in place along with the White House staff and everyone involved in the daily humdrum operations. Number 3 was listening to a lot of BS from people he appointed that didn’t have the entire countries best interests at heart. I’m sure that there are more and it would have been great if his team had taken the time to explain how the constitution actually works.

I would agree, little to no draining. I suspect, that like every administration before him. The loyalist are lined up for appointments and they keep the administrative state employees.

Personally, I would like to see a wholesale house cleaning. However, the message that has been sent is, if you screw with us, we will screw with you. And Trump is paying that price. Do you think anyone else would be willing to have the Trump treatment? I don’t think so.

 

[sestoppelman]

I know this "drain the swamp" mantra seems very important to Trump supporters. The term has popped up often over the previous pages. But can anyone point to a single thing Trump did to pull this supposed plug (and, by the way, tell me where it might be located)? It is meant as a serious question.

Our representatives in both the House and Senate are elected by the people to represent their local interests whether districts or states. I assume Trump did not intend to abolish the constitution (whatever may have been in his mind on Jan 6). So he must not have been speaking about Congress. He certainly did nothing to champion term limits.

The Department and Agency heads were appointed by - drum roll - Trump. I think we can assume that they performed their duties as desired by the President or were replaced by him. Not sure what any of them did to "drain the swamp." I don't seem to remember a wholesale housecleaning, whatever that might actually mean, of the FBI, CIA, or Department of State to name a few.

I specifically remember he promised a five-year cooling off period for former appointees before they became lobbyists. Nothing was done in that regard of which I am aware, and his former administration officials seem to be quite busy on K Street.

And how about Federal bureaucracy? Not only did it not contract, it continued to grow.

Now, it could be that Trump was simply misled or betrayed by everyone he trusted to get something done (a refrain that appears among his apologist blogs), or perhaps he actually had some familiarity with the constitution with respect to congress. But, I think it is far more likely he was and is pandering to his loyal sycophants just like any other politician trying to solidify support. And of course, it is such a catchy phrase.

I think he also used it to highlight to his supporters any agency (EPA comes to mind) that seemed to get in the way of his agenda. I would assume that most o his supporters were fine with that, but he wasn't draining anything unless it was rhetorically.

My only point is that a Donald Trump has no more problem cynically manipulating his supporters than any other politician - perhaps more so since he is personally at such legal risk. It simply behooves all of us to separate that nonsense from reality regardless of our candidate or party.

I said he 'tried", he made it known that was what he wanted to do. Did he succeed? Only partially and mostly what it got him was 6 years of persecution and here we are today.
He did do some good as you yourself have previously stated Joe.
The country was in a better place when Trump was president, that is undeniable.

 

[WAB]

I disagree. We have Biden because Trump tried to drain the swamp and was met at every turn with resistance from all sides, and all branches of govt, and all branches of LE from the CIA, the FBI and everything in between.
Two fake impeachments over things that Biden himself has done worse and bragged about?
Have we already forgotten all the fake scandals perpetrated by the left? Russia Russia Russia?
Short memory syndrome going on around here.

We will have to agree to disagree. I am a good example of what I think happened to his support. I am more conservative than most, but I can no longer support his boorish behavior. I voted against him in two primaries and for him in two general elections. I will not cast a vote for him again. I believe that I am representative of many.

 

[sestoppelman]

We will have to agree to disagree. I am a good example of what I think happened to his support. I am more conservative than most, but I can no longer support his boorish behavior. I voted against him in two primaries and for him in two general elections. I will not cast a vote for him again. I believe that I am representative of many.

We can agree to disagree, no problem.
I will probably vote for someone else in the primary, but if he wins the nomination, I will vote for him.

 

[Wheels]

McCarthy is growing on me. He has more spine than I thought he would.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1668357474682822657