Politics

[Newboomer]

Resume the draft? Like many other countries a mandatory two years of service. Doesn't have to be in the military per se, but two years of Government service. Learn a trade or service (medical, accounting, etc.), work in a VA hospital or non profit and four years of college would be free. We have 7 MILLION men in this country right now, not working at all! It would get their lazy asses out from their parents' basements and mandatorily require them to do SOMETHING other than playing video games (some 7 MILLION hours/year) and smoking cigarettes while watching Captain Kangaroo on Nickleodean. The "parents" aren't doing it and we can no longer afford to have everybody on some sort of permanent Government assistance. Something has to change in our workforce and thus our country's economics soon or we're doomed.

I have always and still do believe in some sort of compulsory Govt service for all graduating High School students male and female. (there are no other sexes). A hitch in one of the armed forces, volunteer work in a UN or similar organization would give them a real look at life.

How many graduates really have an understanding of real life? How many go on to higher education, get a piece of paper saying they are this or that, and wind up flipping burgers or performing day labor the rest of their lives? Military or other service could steer them in a productive direction.

I cite my case: I grew up in a dirt poor village logging and farming. Upon graduation from High School those were my choices. I decided after a year or so of knocking my head against a tree that there had to be something better.

I talked to a Navy recruiter who asked me what I wanted from the Navy. I told him I wanted to learn a trade. "OK, I'll enlist you as a Seabee Recruit, not a Seaman Recruit. That way you will be steered to a construction MOS ." In boot camp they tried to slot me otherwise and I told them to read my contract. After boot camp I was sent to Builders School and on to a construction battalion where I got my education in what became my life's occupation.

After that hitch (1960-66)I had a much better understanding of what life really involves. Then I went on to college, became a General Contractor and had a lucrative career. To this day I thank my lucky stars for that enlistment and the path it created. The US Navy, and later, the US Army taught me discipline, work ethic, responsibility, and leadership skills.

When the economy tanked in 1975 I reenlisted in the US Army Reserve. With a family I needed benefits. I completed my 30+ year military career in 2000.

The military may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it sure worked for me.

 

[jpr9954]

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Resume the draft? Like many other countries a mandatory two years of service. Doesn't have to be in the military per se, but two years of Government service. Learn a trade or service (medical, accounting, etc.), work in a VA hospital or non profit and four years of college would be free. We have 7 MILLION men in this country right now, not working at all! It would get their lazy asses out from their parents' basements and mandatorily require them to do SOMETHING other than playing video games (some 7 MILLION hours/year) and smoking cigarettes while watching Captain Kangaroo on Nickleodean. The "parents" aren't doing it and we can no longer afford to have everybody on some sort of permanent Government assistance. Something has to change in our workforce and thus our country's economics soon or we're doomed.

I agree 100%.
There are government sponsored programs but most never learn of them. I knew of a couple people for who the Gov't paid off their college loans as they taught school in the inner city. That was AmeriCorps I believe.

For all those wanting me and you to pay off their college loans why can't they be put to work?
The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a great para-military program that took young men, taught them some skills, fed and housed them, taught them work ethics, and sent their paychecks home to their families. The CCC did a lot of construction in USA National Parks.

Government service should be quid pro que and reward those who contribute. Structure it like the military but without the weapons and push ups. Let young people learn skills, make a little money, and receive benefits like the old GI Bill of Rights. US Congressman (2nd Texas) and Navy Seal (ret) would be a great driving force for such a program!

 

[John Wasmuth]

I agree 100%.
There are government sponsored programs but most never learn of them. I knew of a couple people for who the Gov't paid off their college loans as they taught school in the inner city. That was AmeriCorps I believe.

For all those wanting me and you to pay off their college loans why can't they be put to work?
The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a great para-military program that took young men, taught them some skills, fed and housed them, taught them work ethics, and sent their paychecks home to their families. The CCC did a lot of construction in USA National Parks.

Government service should be quid pro que and reward those who contribute. Structure it like the military but without the weapons and push ups. Let young people learn skills, make a little money, and receive benefits like the old GI Bill of Rights. US Congressman (2nd Texas) and Navy Seal (ret) would be a great driving force for such a program!

Won’t work. Simple explanation is that it would require the recipient of said program to actually participate in doing something, anything, that would be productive. We can’t have that or anything like that because it would represent, (take your pick here……. Racism, oppression, forced labor, or fill in the blank) and it would cause recipients to feel that they are being singled out by a GOP establishment even though it’s not politically affiliated. It’s much easier to just demand that it’s paid for by the tax payer.

 

[Red Leg]

I agree 100%.
There are government sponsored programs but most never learn of them. I knew of a couple people for who the Gov't paid off their college loans as they taught school in the inner city. That was AmeriCorps I believe.

For all those wanting me and you to pay off their college loans why can't they be put to work?
The Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) was a great para-military program that took young men, taught them some skills, fed and housed them, taught them work ethics, and sent their paychecks home to their families. The CCC did a lot of construction in USA National Parks.

Government service should be quid pro que and reward those who contribute. Structure it like the military but without the weapons and push ups. Let young people learn skills, make a little money, and receive benefits like the old GI Bill of Rights. US Congressman (2nd Texas) and Navy Seal (ret) would be a great driving force for such a program!

Gunny and skipper - you have my profound respect.

While I absolutely agree that anyone would benefit from a period of service to their country (something Kennedy had exactly right) tell me which party could find a meaningful number of parents or young people who would even understand the notion of "ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country" much less actually support universal service.

That said, I served my first couple of years as a lieutenant in the draft army. There is no comparison between our professional force today and that army. That is a place I pray we never return to.

 

[Wheels]

Maybe this is not inline with all the Spartan tough guy memes out there but I would much rather deploy with ten medics meeting 90% of traditional requirements than two medics meeting 100% of traditional requirements.

+1

My father went through basic training in 1944. He left the 3rd Army in Nuremberg after VJ Day. He met the physical requirements to be a GI.

When my father was in his early to mid 50's, he was friends with the commander of an Air Force Base. My father had some talents and abilities that the US Military really wanted at the time. The general worked hard at recruiting my father for about a year. The offer was to serve eight years plus the two years of WWII service and retire as a Colonel with 20 years active service. My father thought about the offer and turned it down. My father had heart issues and would not have been able to meet the physical conditioning standards. The Air Force in writing offered him an exception to all physical conditioning standards for the eight years if he would join.

If the need is great enough, the military will figure out a way to make it happen.

 

[Newboomer]

+1

My father went through basic training in 1944. He left the 3rd Army in Nuremberg after VJ Day. He met the physical requirements to be a GI.

When my father was in his early to mid 50's, he was friends with the commander of an Air Force Base. My father had some talents and abilities that the US Military really wanted at the time. The general worked hard at recruiting my father for about a year. The offer was to serve eight years plus the two years of WWII service and retire as a Colonel with 20 years active service. My father thought about the offer and turned it down. My father had heart issues and would not have been able to meet the physical conditioning standards. The Air Force in writing offered him an exception to all physical conditioning standards for the eight years if he would join.

If the need is great enough, the military will figure out a way to make it happen.

That worked for me when I enlisted in the Army reserve in 1975. I had been out of the Navy for 11 years. Usually they'd bust you 2 stripes if you'd been out more than 2 years. I went back in as the same rank I got out under what they called the Civilian Aquired Skills Program. I was working as a General Contractor in my own business. The Army recognized that as an Army Engineer MOS and took me straight across. And to beat all I wound up in a MASH outfit of all things. Soon after, I went to an NCO school and became a Master Trainer.

 

[Wheels]

.....And to beat all I wound up in a MASH outfit of all things.....

Didn't recognize you with the beard. Who did you play.

 

[Alistair]

Didn't recognize you with the beard. Who did you play.

View attachment 520655

Bottom left I think. Amazing how different folks look with some facial hair!

 

[Newboomer]

Didn't recognize you with the beard. Who did you play.

View attachment 520655

That was my favorite show at the time although it was a different time and place.

 

[CoElkHunter]

That worked for me when I enlisted in the Army reserve in 1975. I had been out of the Navy for 11 years. Usually they'd bust you 2 stripes if you'd been out more than 2 years. I went back in as the same rank I got out under what they called the Civilian Aquired Skills Program. I was working as a General Contractor in my own business. The Army recognized that as an Army Engineer MOS and took me straight across. And to beat all I wound up in a MASH outfit of all things. Soon after, I went to an NCO school and became a Master Trainer.

Civilian Acquired Skills Program. I like that! That will be the new name for the draft. All men and women, able bodied or not, 18-25, living in their parents’ basement without a job will participate in this program. The ones that have proven gaming skills will be covertly whisked to Ukraine and trained by CIVILIANS (CIA) to crash Taliban built drones into Russian armor and artillery. Others with dexterity (being able to hold a cigarette in one hand and a beer in the other) will assemble the drones with Taliban markings and dated before the Russian invasion. I’m still contemplating other possible Civilian jobs for the program, but I need a nap before I go to work tonight. LOL

 

[John Wasmuth]

Kamikaze Drones!! Yea buddy!!!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have always and still do believe in some sort of compulsory Govt service for all graduating High School students male and female. (there are no other sexes). A hitch in one of the armed forces, volunteer work in a UN or similar organization would give them a real look at life.

How many graduates really have an understanding of real life? How many go on to higher education, get a piece of paper saying they are this or that, and wind up flipping burgers or performing day labor the rest of their lives? Military or other service could steer them in a productive direction.

I cite my case: I grew up in a dirt poor village logging and farming. Upon graduation from High School those were my choices. I decided after a year or so of knocking my head against a tree that there had to be something better.

I talked to a Navy recruiter who asked me what I wanted from the Navy. I told him I wanted to learn a trade. "OK, I'll enlist you as a Seabee Recruit, not a Seaman Recruit. That way you will be steered to a construction MOS ." In boot camp they tried to slot me otherwise and I told them to read my contract. After boot camp I was sent to Builders School and on to a construction battalion where I got my education in what became my life's occupation.

After that hitch (1960-66)I had a much better understanding of what life really involves. Then I went on to college, became a General Contractor and had a lucrative career. To this day I thank my lucky stars for that enlistment and the path it created. The US Navy, and later, the US Army taught me discipline, work ethic, responsibility, and leadership skills.

When the economy tanked in 1975 I reenlisted in the US Army Reserve. With a family I needed benefits. I completed my 30+ year military career in 2000.

The military may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it sure worked for me.

Recently, I read a 4 volume series on the air war in Vietnam (https://vietnamtowesternairlines.com/ ). Each chapter is written by a different author, about 130 in total. All types of pilots, Army helicopters, Navy and Marine carrier based pilots, Air Force fighter, bomber, tanker, small forward air control and various cargo aircraft. Some stories are funny, but most are deadly serious with what they did in Vietnam. The common thread is they all volunteered to serve, many because they didn't want to get drafted and be an infantryman. Several talked about bumping into a military recruiter and it changed their life, especially getting into aviation. After their commitment was served, many of them got out of the military and went to work for Western Airlines. Western was acquired by Delta in the mid 80s. Darn near every story talks about their early youth and not having a clue what they wanted to do. Some mentioned at an early age, somebody took them flying and they were hooked.

I now have 4 young grandsons and already planning to take them on an orientation flight when they get a little older. Hoping to light the fire!

 

[Newboomer]

Recently, I read a 4 volume series on the air war in Vietnam (https://vietnamtowesternairlines.com/ ). Each chapter is written by a different author, about 130 in total. All types of pilots, Army helicopters, Navy and Marine carrier based pilots, Air Force fighter, bomber, tanker, small forward air control and various cargo aircraft. Some stories are funny, but most are deadly serious with what they did in Vietnam. The common thread is they all volunteered to serve, many because they didn't want to get drafted and be an infantryman. Several talked about bumping into a military recruiter and it changed their life, especially getting into aviation. After their commitment was served, many of them got out of the military and went to work for Western Airlines. Western was acquired by Delta in the mid 80s. Darn near every story talks about their early youth and not having a clue what they wanted to do. Some mentioned at an early age, somebody took them flying and they were hooked.

I now have 4 young grandsons and already planning to take them on an orientation flight when they get a little older. Hoping to light the fire!

The armed forces, regardless of branch will train one to be whatever that person wants to be. The requirements are (or were) not that tough to get into schools. Great way to prepare for a good civilian career.

 

[PARA45]

Recently, I read a 4 volume series on the air war in Vietnam (https://vietnamtowesternairlines.com/ ). Each chapter is written by a different author, about 130 in total. All types of pilots, Army helicopters, Navy and Marine carrier based pilots, Air Force fighter, bomber, tanker, small forward air control and various cargo aircraft. Some stories are funny, but most are deadly serious with what they did in Vietnam. The common thread is they all volunteered to serve, many because they didn't want to get drafted and be an infantryman. Several talked about bumping into a military recruiter and it changed their life, especially getting into aviation. After their commitment was served, many of them got out of the military and went to work for Western Airlines. Western was acquired by Delta in the mid 80s. Darn near every story talks about their early youth and not having a clue what they wanted to do. Some mentioned at an early age, somebody took them flying and they were hooked.

I now have 4 young grandsons and already planning to take them on an orientation flight when they get a little older. Hoping to light the fire!

Bat-21 is one of my favorite Vietnam era books/stories. The movie wasn't too bad, but nothing like the book. My squadron commander (the one I washed his coffee cup) was an F-4 pilot, got shot down and was a POW in Vietnam for around 5 years. I was the only enlisted in the squadron, and he took me under his wing, great commander. Sat on some of his briefings and heard what he lived through those 5-years as a POW.

 

[Jfet]

Interesting

 

[Boyd Brooks]

 

[John Wasmuth]

Ok, y’all can come uncorked over this and hate me till the end of time, which is fine with me….
the fact that we left a ton of weapons when we left Afghanistan isn’t lost on any one. Those munitions were left for tha Afghanistan army to fight the Taliban. The fact that they dropped them and ran the other way does not decrease the fact that they were left to combat assholes.
The same exact thing happened on April 30th 1975 when the NVA breached the line in SVN and we lost a ton of weapons left behind for SVN to fight NVN. Shit gets sickening after a while. Anyone with two brain cells knows that. Every time we occupy a country this happens. It’s nothing know.

 

[Red Leg]

Ok, y’all can come uncorked over this and hate me till the end of time, which is fine with me….
the fact that we left a ton of weapons when we left Afghanistan isn’t lost on any one. Those munitions were left for tha Afghanistan army to fight the Taliban. The fact that they dropped them and ran the other way does not decrease the fact that they were left to combat assholes.
The same exact thing happened on April 30th 1975 when the NVA breached the line in SVN and we lost a ton of weapons left behind for SVN to fight NVN. Shit gets sickening after a while. Anyone with two brain cells knows that. Every time we occupy a country this happens. It’s nothing know.

With respect to Vietnam and Afghanistan, I agree. Though I am not entirely sure what point you are trying to make.

In fairness you also should add Iraq to your analysis. The relationship with that country and it with its neighbors is substantially different than it was prior to 2003. For the previous eleven years, we had been conducting Operation Southern Watch over a very hostile Iraq led by Saddam Hussein. It is still a bad neighborhood and Iraq performs an interesting balancing act between the US and Iran, but the only US forces in the country are part of the military training group. And yes, the Iraqi Army is primarily armed with US equipment, though Iraq has recently taken delivery of some Russian T90 tanks. Over the years some US equipment has ended up in the hands of the PMF militia.

We have not occupied anyone else lately of which I am aware.

 

[John Wasmuth]

You are correct sir, I should have included Iraq. Point being that we can get over the idiot at 1600 Pennsylvania ave leaving equipment behind. We do it all the time. SVN, Iraq, Afghanistan……. I’m sure there are more, Somalia? I’m just wishing maybe the GOP can find more worthy stuff to be pissed off about when in comes to Biden. If I’m wrong sir, I’m all ears….