Politics

[sgt_zim]

I respect your service as a Houston policeman. But as such, you were in fact the point of the spear of the state's ability to use coercive force to insure compliance with laws - largely enacted by the people - to insure safety - but also to limit individual behavior which could have detrimental effect on the community as a whole(the mob?) or even special interests. Of course, you exercised a protective function in that role. I did the same thing at a national level - some of it was directly protective - but most was in furthering national (collective - damn, that word again - national interests). And who said anything about ends justifying means? In our historical experiment, we have a constitution to limit those means, and we have given the people the collective ability to direct those interests via the individual exercise of a vote for representatives who protect and further our collective interests through republican government.

All nation states use force as one of their tools to achieve national interests and to help insure domestic "tranquility;" sometimes implied force through negotiations - sometimes naked force through military power (Clausewitz again). You and I , along with our fellow citizens, get to decide indirectly how the government employs those tools through elections.

I am trying to interpret your last paragraph. If you are lecturing me about the "philosophy" I choose to lead my personal life - we can take this to a conversation format. However, I stated very clearly that I am Hamiltonian Federalist. I find that puts me, historically, in very reassuring company. They are the hard-eyed realists who have to come in and clean up the utopian nonsense every generation or so. One of these days, they won't be summoned, and this interesting experiment of ours really will come apart at the seams.

Not lecturing, per se, just pointing out that political policies take on a life of their own, irrespective of the intentions of the culture that gave birth to a given policy.

As one example, while I agree that self-medicating is a patently bad idea, I now find myself in stark opposition to even the existence of drug laws. And what the police have become as a result of the WoD is worse than the drugs themselves. Between the WoD and the "War on Terror," your 4th amendment rights have all but evaporated. Ending the WoD will have precisely the same effect on drug violence as the repeal of Volstead had on the alcohol wars that raged during Prohibition. It is not a coincidence that violence over alcohol ceased almost overnight when Volstead was repealed.

I'm all for putting violent drug dealers out of business, and the way to get there is via the immutable laws of economics, of supply and demand and competition. I'm also for not spending a single milray of the public treasury in assisting those who find themselves in a bad way because of drugs. When irresponsible people are made to pay for their own folly, most of them will start learning how to be responsible.

Under the current model, drug lords have obtained wealth beyond the reckoning of Vanderbilt, Getty, Rockefeller, Morgan, and Carnegie. They have their own private armies and have even bought [Diesel-electric hybrid] submarines. Imagine what would happen to their fortunes if marijuana prices were to fall low enough that a marijuana cigarette cost a nickel, or the price of cocaine went from its current ~$20,000/kilo to maybe $100/kilo. There is always a good answer to be found in free market economics.

But it is not our place to tell the irresponsible people "we're doing this to you (sticking them in jail) for your own good." The majority certainly has the power to say that, but does it have the right?

I am all for the strict enforcement of laws which fall under the general heading of mala en se (anything which can be broadly understood as theft or assault or fraud), and am all for repealing all laws which fall under the general heading of mala prohibita. Most readers here would be interested to note that gun control laws fall under the latter, and not the former.

If we wish to speculate on potential harm, free men abusing their right to keep and bear arms has a far greater potential of harming people than drugs. Keeping things in perspective, few are harmed by either. And if we can trust the judgment of men with respect to arms, why can we also not trust their judgment when it comes to drugs (and a boat-load of other things - I cite drugs because it is an example to which we can all easily relate).

FWIW, you'd have to search high and low to find someone more in the Jefferson/Madison camp than I am.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . . Perhaps some future historian will add it in an updated study calling it “Obamian”? Then again, over time, it may simply appear, at least with respect to international relations, as merely the latest emergence of the Wilsonian.

I was thinking more of Marx when Wilson. But then Wilson was not far behind.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . When irresponsible people are made to pay for their own folly, most of them will start learning how to be responsible. . . .

Not based on my experience.

 

[Wheels]

Chrystia Freeland, while negotiating the most important deal she will negotiate while she is in office (NAFTA), and possibly the most important economic treaty in Canada's history, decides it is important to take a break from negotiations and be part of a panel that bashes the person and country she is negotiating NAFTA with.

Interesting negotiating concept!


https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1039578964942041089

Really feel for all the good Canadians out there. This was not that difficult of a deal back in January:

1. Stop being a conduit for other countries goods to enter the USA without tariffs.
2. Stop being a conduit for other countries goods to enter the USA without tariffs.
3. Stop being a conduit for other countries goods to enter the USA without tariffs.
4. Commence cutting back on tariffs for the agriculture industry and start reducing subsidies to the timber industry. This could have been a slow process.
5. Since Canadian banks operate freely in America, allow American banks to operate freely in Canada. This probably could have been a 5-10 year window.
6. NAFTA would have sunset provisions, meaning that it has to be renewed periodically.


Instead, Freeland who's average MFN tariffs with the USA average 17% higher, and who has a continual surplus with the USA, wants to add language regarding LGBTQ rights into NAFTA and language regarding indigenous peoples that could have a massive price tag, and require more government supervision and compliance.

Making a deal has continued to get more and more complicated. It may have just become impossible until the next Canadian administration comes into power.

 

[Wheels]

The Korean War (police action) began in 1950. Last year North Korean ICBM's were being launched along with Nuclear bombs being detonated.

There hasn't been a missile launch or nuclear bomb detonated by North Korea in apx. one year.

North and South are talking about hosting a joint Olympics.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/...rea-plan-to-bid-for-2032-summer-olympics.html

The North has taken steps toward denuclearization and look to be making more steps in that direction.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...announcement-to-dismantle-main-nuke-site.html

Trump and Kim meet at a summit.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ong-un-for-one-on-one-at-historic-summit.html


Nine months ago when Trump made the following tweet, how many would have predicted we would be at this point.


Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump
North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un just stated that the “Nuclear Button is on his desk at all times.” Will someone from his depleted and food starved regime please inform him that I too have a Nuclear Button, but it is a much bigger & more powerful one than his, and my Button works. 7:49 PM - Jan 2, 2018


Could we be seeing the end of a 68 year old "police action" in the next year or two?

North Korea has been and still is a satellite of China, that China is not willing to give up. China can't afford a democratic and united Korea across the Yalu. The economic pressure being put on China is the only way North Korea will become free. Trump is hitting China from at least eleven different directions at one time. The following is a good read explaining the details.

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...rk-panda-mask-to-expose-red-dragon-influence/

To quote Sundance.

In my lifetime I have never seen anything like this. It is interesting how geopolitics work when a president has a grasp of the big picture!



Side Note: Kim has known Dennis Rodman for five years. Rodman has known Trump for decades. Rodman is good friends with both men. Wonder if we will find out that Rodman was the initial go between?!?! Some things are to ridiculous to fathom. Or are they.

 

[Nature Boy]

Well, I just read all that, pretty interesting stuff. I have some comments.

First off, Trump is not perfect but name me the politician who is? It's pretty entertaining to me that people (esp. in the USA) can't see what the deal is? The deal is: the establishment doesn't want ANYBODY upsetting their apple cart. Trump is not beholden to them, they don't like that. THAT, my friends is THE issue. Trump is using these trade jabs as a negotiating tool, that is all. Does anybody here know his background???

Now, on to trade. Canada breaks the rules of NAFTA point blank on dairy, that is fact. WHY? Because your millennial Premier wants to "protect" Canadian farmers? LMAO. Pot meet Kettle. Tariffs are not good for anybody, you want free trade. We don't have free trade. We pay 10% on a car, euros pay 2.5% I think. PLEASE EXPLAIN TO THIS SIMPLE MAN HOW THAT IS FREE TRADE? I'll wait. That said, China is the problem and the target, PERIOD. The rest is small beans.

Additionally, we aren't going to be making too many cars or widgets anymore imo. It's not doable. We should want better jobs anyway. The trade deficit as well is bullshit. This doesn't count out services (things like consulting) and so doesn't tell a true story. I do think it's pretty funny that Japan/Germany are our allies now and Russia/China our enemies. It's also laughable that euros don't want to meet the standards of the agreement and cry about not taking us to the cleaners anymore. You think Russia is your friend now? I think maybe some of the people in Germany would not agree with that. Just a guess.

If you let Russia/China become the superpower YOU WILL SEE UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL what the world will be like. The USA has done for the world than every other country in the entire world COMBINED, that is fact.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Good post Wheels. The Chinese premier during Bush's time said the biggest worry he had was creating 25 million new jobs a year. I'm sure the present one has the same worry. Hopefully, he'll realize the trade issue isn't going away.

 

[Nature Boy]

Good post Wheels. The Chinese premier during Bush's time said the biggest worry he had was creating 25 million new jobs a year. I'm sure the present one has the same worry. Hopefully, he'll realize the trade issue isn't going away.

China's economy is not close to the USA, period.

 

[wesheltonj]

China's economy is not close to the USA, period.

Have you been to China (any city), Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur & Singapore lately?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Have you been to China (any city), Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur & Singapore lately?

Never been to any of those places. Why do you ask?

 

[Nature Boy]

Have you been to China (any city), Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur & Singapore lately?

No, and that has nothing to do with my post. I posted a fact. I didn't say they were still in the stone ages.

 

[wesheltonj]

China is the major investor in each of those places. Their skylines have changed with Chinese investments in each of those places. For example, I was in Guangzhou, China in 1989. There was nothing there, it was where you took the train from Hong Kong into China. The airport was small. Today, the airport is a major airport competing with Hong Kong, and home to China Southern Airline the 6th largest in the world and the largest in Asia by fleet size. A city full of high rise buildings and Canton Tower (at one time the tallest in the World). In 2013, the GDP reached ¥1542 billion (US$248 billion), per capita was ¥120,515 (US $19,459). Guangzhou is considered one of the most prosperous cities in China.

 

[Nature Boy]

China is the major investor in each of those places. Their skylines have changed with Chinese investments in each of those places. For example, I was in Guangzhou, China in 1989. There was nothing there, it was where you took the train from Hong Kong into China. The airport was small. Today, the airport is a major airport competing with Hong Kong, and home to China Southern Airline the 6th largest in the world and the largest in Asia by fleet size. A city full of high rise buildings and Canton Tower (at one time the tallest in the World). In 2013, the GDP reached ¥1542 billion (US$248 billion), per capita was ¥120,515 (US $19,459). Guangzhou is considered one of the most prosperous cities in China.

They are doing better for sure. I'll take my chances with US military might.

 

[wesheltonj]

Also the worlds four largest banks are in China with combined assets of $13,637 USD in Billions. China has 12 banks in the top 50 largest in the world. The USA only has 5 banks in the top 50.

 

[Foxi]

Disagree with what, precisely?

Do you disagree that Smoot-Hawley was one of the key driving forces of the Great Depression?

Do you disagree that it is the consumers in the country where tariffs are imposed that ultimately pay those tariffs?

Asia and Europe have recovered, but they're hamstrung by Keynesian/Mercantilist protectionist trade policies. I am loathe to use GDP as a measure of economic vitality, but it serves a purpose here: the GDP of all of Europe is ~70% higher than the US. But Europe has a bit more than twice the population of the US. If they were doing so well, Europe's aggregate GDP should be more than twice (or there should at least be parity) what ours is. In spite of proclamations by talking heads on the lobotomy box and politicians, a typical European has a lower quality of life than a typical American. They are worse off than we are because of higher taxes and higher tariffs. This isn't even arguable.

Singapore and Hong Kong were as decimated by WWII as any of the other Asian countries. Worse, they're both basically sterilized rocks sitting in the ocean, with few natural resources of their own. And yet look at them today after decades of low/no tariffs (low/no tariffs aren't the only thing driving their success, but it's a significant contributing factor).

While the US economy grew tremendously after WWII, do not overlook the important point that even in spite of the Great Depression, the US was an economic juggernaut relative to the rest of the world. After Midway, Japan was done for because they lacked the economic resources to rebuild 3 aircraft carriers - true they had battle ships and cruisers, but no way to protect them if they got out of range of shore-based air support. Japan's defeat at that point was a fait accompli, it was only a question of when the end would come.

Between 1941 and December of 1945, the United States launched 28 or 29 aircraft carriers. Free trade between the states was a significant driver of that (and almost non-existent taxes, but that's another discussion). I don't mention the aircraft carriers as a "yay we had lots of cool toys and they didn't," I say it to underscore the point that only an economic powerhouse like the US had the resources and infrastructure to do it, resources and infrastructure that existed well before the economic boom of the 1950s.

Even if Russia had not been involved in WWII, the economic might of the United States would have eventually overwhelmed the NAZIs. We could afford to replace our war-fighting equipment, and they could not.

Sorry but your statistics has no benefit.
The Europeans you lead don't really exist.
A Norwegian has nothing at all in common with a Romanian.
All economic and socio-cultural key data can't be any bigger.
But both are Europeans.
What did you mean with a typical European ?A Slowakian or a Swiss ? I never met a typical European.On a continent with 150 languages and 47 countries !!
If you think the EU ,is always an association of 28 states that cannot be more different, then the GDP, standard of living, or economic power bill is of no use to them at all.
Those of Germany -Portugal, for example,have zero similarities.Except you live on the European continent.
Just one example among many.


The Nazis are only bleeding out with the economic power of the USA - a bold claim, but how long would it have taken.
So you owe any proof.Of course, no country can compete with the USA.

Nazis had Europe's resources in their pockets, only the land lease act Roosevelts with Stalin and its implementation put them out of business with military power.
But I won't tell you anything new.
Foxi

 

[Nature Boy]

Also the worlds four largest banks are in China with combined assets of $13,637 USD in Billions. China has 12 banks in the top 50 largest in the world. The USA only has 5 banks in the top 50.

Yep, and their politicians (being good commies and all) own most of that money

 

[Nature Boy]

Sorry but your statistics has no benefit.
The Europeans you lead don't really exist.
A Norwegian has nothing at all in common with a Romanian.
All economic and socio-cultural key data can't be any bigger.
But both are Europeans.
What did you mean with a typical European ?A Slowakian or a Swiss ? I never met a typical European.On a continent with 150 languages and 47 countries !!
If you think the EU ,is always an association of 28 states that cannot be more different, then the GDP, standard of living, or economic power bill is of no use to them at all.
Those of Germany -Portugal, for example,have zero similarities.Except you live on the European continent.
Just one example among many.


The Nazis are only bleeding out with the economic power of the USA - a bold claim, but how long would it have taken.
So you owe any proof.
Nazis had Europe's resources in their pockets, only the land lease act Roosevelts with Stalin and its implementation put them out of business with military power.
But I won't tell you anything new.
Foxi

The biggest help was Hitler trying to act like he was a General.

 

[Wheels]

China's economy is not close to the USA, period.

Per the International Monetary Fund (2017)[1] Per the World Bank (2017)[20] Per the United Nations (2016)[21][22]
Rank Country GDP
(US$MM)
World[19] 79,865,481
1

United States 19,390,600
2

China[n 1] 12,014,610
3

Japan 4,872,135
4

Germany 3,684,816
5

United Kingdom 2,624,529
6

India 2,611,012
7

France 2,583,560
8

Brazil 2,054,969
9

Italy 1,937,894
10

Canada

 

[dmyers]

Just commenting on the US funding much of rest of Western Europe's rebuilding after WW II. Part of that expenditure was to prevent the socialist east from expanding its borders west. If you think funding the rebuild was expensive, think about living in a world with a Soviets or Putin controlling the whole continent. It was at least a real concern back at the start of the cold war.

 

[Pheroze]

Per the International Monetary Fund (2017)[1] Per the World Bank (2017)[20] Per the United Nations (2016)[21][22]
Rank Country GDP
(US$MM)
World[19] 79,865,481
1

United States 19,390,600
2

China[n 1] 12,014,610
3

Japan 4,872,135
4

Germany 3,684,816
5

United Kingdom 2,624,529
6

India 2,611,012
7

France 2,583,560
8

Brazil 2,054,969
9

Italy 1,937,894
10

Canada

I knew our government had screwed things up in Canada but I hadn't realized or GDP was nothing!