Opinions on the middle rifle

[Backyardsniper]

Thinking about getting another rifle in the hopefully not too distant future so I thought I would get some opinions and hear everyone's case for thier favorite mid-bore, not that I would rule out going bigger instead of mid, but for the moment let's hear about the middle size.
I have a 375 H&H and I have a 460 Wby. I can run anything from a 300gr barnes up to a 600gr in that so another rifle isn't truly necessary, but you know how this works. As a side question would Any body consider shooting a buffalo with a 300grain Barnes .458 bullet doing 3150fps? Main question though, I'm leaning towards a 416 rigby however I haven't really researched the 404 Jeffries so is there any cartridges in this class that I'm overlooking? What's your opinion on the best mid-bore cartridge out there. A real do it all, flat enough for PG but plenty of.power all the way up to big elephants?
I am really curious about that 300gr barnes load. If that bullet was suitable for buffalo that would be one wicked load. If a 375 diameter 300 grain at +/- 2450 will kill one a 300gr 458 diameter that would hold.together at 3000+fps should kill like lightning, you know like a 22-250 for buffalo. Ha Ha

 

[Scrumbag]

I like my Jeff…

 

[Backyardsniper]

I need to look deeper into the 404. It seems to be a popular round

 

[LEFOL SAFARIS]

I have 375 HH, 378 weatherby, 416 Rigby, 460 weatherby.

I have to choose one for everything it will be probably 378 weatherby flat shooting and enafe power to take down anything. You must able to handle the recoil.

416 Rigby will be probably my second choice very good to 200 yards. The action of the Rigby is really long you need some time to adapt and be able to take a second shot fast.

 

[Backyardsniper]

How is the 378 recoil compared to the 460? I shoot the 460 quite a bit and I been looking hard at the 378

 

[Backyardsniper]

A 350gr Barnes or a 380 rhino would be a hammer out of that thing

 

[LEFOL SAFARIS]

How is the 378 recoil compared to the 460? I shoot the 460 quite a bit and I been looking hard at the 378

I will say a more aggressive recoil compare the 460

 

[Backyardsniper]

I can see that. With the velocity I would say it is probably a sharper recoil

 

[Red Leg]

If you are planning multiple elephant hunts a year, and simply want to use different rifles, I suppose it makes some logical sense to continue on this path of overlapping capability. I have the same sort of multiple .375 and above collection, but it is simply because I enjoy owning and occasionally shooting them. There is no logical reason for more than one of them. And frankly when I have headed over for DG, it is always a .375 that accompanies me. Nothing beats its versatility.

I truly don't get the .460 Weatherby for any purpose.

A 300 gr bullet from a .458 has an SD of about .2. At that velocity you run the risk of cratering on the shoulder of thick skinned game. Sounds like a great way to wound and lose a buffalo.

I can't think of any "justification" for owning another .40 something - unless selling the .460 is in the cards. But if you want one, then sure, go buy it.

 

[BourbonTrail]

You could try the 416 Weatherby…a bit more rare, but still a mid bore sledgehammer.

 

[Safari Dave]

You would not be going wrong with either.

I chose a .416, but the .404 would have been just as well.



I think factory ammunition would be easier to find for the .416 Rigby.

 

[Backyardsniper]

I do like the idea of the 416's. Rigby or weatherby. I do like to do my own thing so the weatherby is an interesting idea

 

[Backyardsniper]

If you are planning multiple elephant hunts a year, and simply want to use different rifles, I suppose it makes some logical sense to continue on this path of overlapping capability. I have the same sort of multiple .375 and above collection, but it is simply because I enjoy owning and occasionally shooting them. There is no logical reason for more than one of them. And frankly when I have headed over for DG, it is always a .375 that accompanies me. Nothing beats its versatility.

I truly don't get the .460 Weatherby for any purpose.

A 300 gr bullet from a .458 has an SD of about .2. At that velocity you run the risk of cratering on the shoulder of thick skinned game. Sounds like a great way to wound and lose a buffalo.

I can't think of any "justification" for owning another .40 something - unless selling the .460 is in the cards. But if you want one, then sure, go buy it.

I don't have multiple elephant hunts planned I just like to own different rifles. I don't really need a reason other than enjoying the selection or going to the range that is 10 min down the road and banging steel with them. While the 300gr 458 bullet is not probably ideal I am pretty sure it will make more than a flesh wound
On the topic.of the 460 it is probably one of the most versatile guns made, you don't have to run full house loads all the time. It will actually replicate what any other big bore will do from the 375 all the way up. 300gr bullets, 400,450, 500 all at whatever velocity you want to load them at.

 

[LEFOL SAFARIS]

You have also the 416 rem

 

[Red Leg]

I don't have multiple elephant hunts planned I just like to own different rifles. I don't really need a reason other than enjoying the selection or going to the range that is 10 min down the road and banging steel with them. While the 300gr 458 bullet is not probably ideal I a pretty sure it will make more than a flesh wound
On the topic.of the 460 it is probably one of the most versatile guns made, you don't have to run full house loads all the time. It will actually replicate what any other big bore will do from the 375 all the way up. 300gr bullets, 400,450, 500 all at whatever velocity you want to load them at.

You asked for an opinion, so I offered one. I believe you run a meaningful, but more importantly, an unnecessary risk of wounding a buffalo with a fast 300 gr bullet with an SD of .2. A lot of actual experience has gone into the conclusion that a .400 gr bullet from a .458 is good place to start when opening an engagement with a buffalo. Rarely do buffalo present a perfect shot. Most often one has to drive a bullet through a bit of bone and animal to get to where it matters. The vast majority of experienced DG hunters will tell you that begins with a bullet with an SD around .3. It is one reason the 300 gr .375 has proven so lethal for a hundred years.

As I said, if you simply want to own a new rifle, by all means buy one. And I am glad you are sold on the utility of a .460. From my perspective, nothing that large and heavy is particularly "versatile." As I say, I can't think of any use for one. But if you are happy with it that is great.

If I were recommending a classic safari rifle in a forty-something, it would be a .416 Rigby or .404 J.

 

[nztimb]

If you look at the wonderfull 404 and join the expanding number of owners of this fabulous cartridge you will have to use the correct name of Jeffery not "jefferies" to be excepted by the "in crowd".

 

[Backyardsniper]

I'll be running 500 gr A Frames on my hunt. The load I'm running is right at 2410fps and without the muzzle brake it is definitely stout but it is controllable. Right now I have been averaging about 3" groups with the Aperture sight off sticks at 100yds. I have a 375 and I will take it as back up but I just don't think the 375 is a "stopper" and I don't like the idea of trusting my safety entirely to the PH, not.to mention if the PH finds himself in a bad situation a d I have to do the "stopping" I want to have plenty of gun to do it. Many a buffalo have been killed with a 375 and it probably works very well if the plan is shooting a buffalo that is unaware and letting him run off to stiffen up. I prefer to be prepared for a worst case situation and if things go according to plan then all the better, but if they don't I want to have plenty of gun.

 

[Backyardsniper]

If you look at the wonderfull 404 and join the expanding number of owners of this fabulous cartridge you will have to use the correct name of Jeffery not "jefferies" to be excepted by the "in crowd".

I will make note of this. Ha ha

 

[VertigoBE]

You asked for an opinion, so I offered one. I believe you run a meaningful, but more importantly, an unnecessary risk of wounding a buffalo with a fast 300 gr bullet with an SD of .2. A lot of actual experience has gone into the conclusion that a .400 gr bullet from a .458 is good place to start when opening an engagement with a buffalo. Rarely do buffalo present a perfect shot. Most often one has to drive a bullet through a bit of bone and animal to get to where it matters. The vast majority of experienced DG hunters will tell you that begins with a bullet with an SD around .3. It is one reason the 300 gr .375 has proven so lethal for a hundred years.

As I said, if you simply want to own a new rifle, by all means buy one. And I am glad you are sold on the utility of a .460. From my perspective, nothing that large and heavy is particularly "versatile." As I say, I can't think of any use for one. But if you are happy with it that is great.

If I were recommending a classic safari rifle in a forty-something, it would be a .416 Rigby or .404 J.

I did not realise how much more important sectional density is than just calibre or velocity until recently.

Would you say that as a general rule, that SD should be higher than .3 for any thick skinned and/or dangerous game? .356 should be great then?

 

[Red Leg]

I did not realise how much more important sectional density is than just calibre or velocity until recently.

Would you say that as a general rule, that SD should be higher than .3 for any thick skinned and/or dangerous game? .356 should be great then?

Absolutely.

Light and fast is a prescription for a dangerous fiasco on thick-skinned game at close range. Pretty much the definition of a buffalo or elephant hunt.

We need to remind ourselves, that a client's single most important responsibility is to put the first shot in exactly the right place with exactly the right bullet. I have done that with a 300 gr .375 consistently. None of those buffalo have "run off to stiffen up."