New USA requirements in addition to the form 4457

[Hammergun]

I was able to speak in person today with someone very high up in the NRA. He assured me that they are working on a solution and that this mess will get better. He said they just need some time. I know this doesn't help those leaving soon but things happen slowly in Washington. These guys travel to hunt too.

 

[thi9elsp]

Glad to hear. But why weren't they ahead of this? I have to believe that 1,000's of US hunters travel internationally when you think of all of the hunting in Canada let alone other destinations. NRA, SCI, DSC, etc. dropped the ball on this one in my opinion. If not for actively being on this forum, I would have no idea about this. All of these groups - and I'm a life member of each of them - is happy to blast out emails selling us stuff, asking for more donations etc. But still, no email, nothing from any of them. I'm really not very happy with any of them right now.

 

[huntermn15]

Mike,

My pleasure. Be sure to ask for Chief Fernandez or someone in her unit. It's important to speak with the "export unit". There are different units in C&BP and they have differing capabilities. She is friendly and very helpful.

Cheers
Jim

I will Jim, and I'll post the outcome. Thanks again!

 

[billc]

Glad to hear. But why weren't they ahead of this? I have to believe that 1,000's of US hunters travel internationally when you think of all of the hunting in Canada let alone other destinations. NRA, SCI, DSC, etc. dropped the ball on this one in my opinion. If not for actively being on this forum, I would have no idea about this. All of these groups - and I'm a life member of each of them - is happy to blast out emails selling us stuff, asking for more donations etc. But still, no email, nothing from any of them. I'm really not very happy with any of them right now.

I don't think this was the nra,sci or dsc fault. The way the gov. has been working they just backdoor this new rule in to start taking affect. Hell the people who are suppose to enforce the rule don't know it is to be enforced.
This sneaky Gov. is trying stuff like this now and just keeping the people who represent us all out of the loop as long as they can. Thank god we have them handling it when they find out about this kind of stuff.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I have posted this information on other firearms/hunting websites:
The silence is deafening..........
The apathy is appalling................
.....and I find both scarey

...........I have a really sick feeling in the pit of my stomach right now.

 

[brushmore]

The silence is deafening..........
The apathy is appalling................
.....and I find both scarey

Same experience with me and I agree. The attitude implied to me was that only "rich guys" go overseas to hunt so who cares? What they fail to realize that if the government can with the stroke of pen turn a law abiding citizen into a felon for not following a completely broken government process what else will they do tomorrow?

 

[Areaonereal]

Apathy and complacency is running rampant in this country today. If it has no effect on me...who cares attitude. One bite of the apple leads to another until only the core is left and then one day the core is gone,a little bit at a time until nothing. Time has passed to correct this, we just seem to adapt and go on. Study the history of this country and Europe and you will see strange parallels to our country today and what we can anticipate in the future if apathy and complacency continues. Saddens me greatly to see today as compared to only thirty years ago.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

So long as I can get my "free" stuff, who cares?

 

[Dragan N.]

Glad to hear. But why weren't they ahead of this? I have to believe that 1,000's of US hunters travel internationally when you think of all of the hunting in Canada let alone other destinations. NRA, SCI, DSC, etc. dropped the ball on this one in my opinion. If not for actively being on this forum, I would have no idea about this. All of these groups - and I'm a life member of each of them - is happy to blast out emails selling us stuff, asking for more donations etc. But still, no email, nothing from any of them. I'm really not very happy with any of them right now.

I don't think this was the nra,sci or dsc fault. The way the gov. has been working they just backdoor this new rule in to start taking affect. Hell the people who are suppose to enforce the rule don't know it is to be enforced.
This sneaky Gov. is trying stuff like this now and just keeping the people who represent us all out of the loop as long as they can. Thank god we have them handling it when they find out about this kind of stuff.

I think that SCI, DSC, and other major hunting organizations in the US have really dropped the ball when it comes to hunters on many issues. These organizations are well funded by the looks of things and are huge. Yet look at all the bans that are place for importing trophies into the US: can't import polar bears, I think import of lions from certain countries is banned, the recent elephant bans and so on and so forth. And this is all going contrary to international CITES regulations/policy.

Yet Canada on the other hand which doesn't have any groups that I know of as large as the aforementioned American ones largely has regulations that as far as I know correspond with CITES, the Canadian government hasn't made up its own rules contrary to CITES about what animal can or can't be imported. Something is definitely off in the US and with these orgs and the Canadian government is more left leaning than the American one to boot.

Although the US still for the most part has amazing gun laws compared to most other developed countries.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I think that SCI, DSC, and other major hunting organizations in the US have really dropped the ball when it comes to hunters on many issues. These organizations are well funded by the looks of things and are huge. Yet look at all the bans that are place for importing trophies into the US: can't import polar bears, I think import of lions from certain countries is banned, the recent elephant bans and so on and so forth. And this is all going contrary to international CITES regulations/policy.

I have to agree......I don't know much about CITES regulations/treaties/etc. What I DO know is that when my home state was trying to fight the antis when we were trying to get a dove season, we got NO help from the NRA. Sportsman are now largely ignored in favor of the "black gun" enthusiast. That is one reason why I let my NRA membership lapse; I felt that my money would be better spent elsewhere, such as D.U. and Delta waterfowl. To be fair, there wasn't much of a push back from ANYONE when it came to the dove bill here in MI; even the local sportsman's group dropped the ball.....however, I see less and less in regards to "hunters rights" than I do to "black gun enthusiast" rights. I guess if you don't hunt it with an AR15, you just don't matter. Another issue that they could have done more for (IMHO) is the banning of lead bullets in CA and other areas.........
I was going to reenlist in the NRA, but I will wait to see how much of a fight they put up re: these new rules & regs. If I see much in the way of support (instead of just lip service, which is all I'm feeling now), I will reconsider my position.

 

[RickP]

I have to agree......I don't know much about CITES regulations/treaties/etc. What I DO know is that when my home state was trying to fight the antis when we were trying to get a dove season, we got NO help from the NRA. Sportsman are now largely ignored in favor of the "black gun" enthusiast. That is one reason why I let my NRA membership lapse; I felt that my money would be better spent elsewhere, such as D.U. and Delta waterfowl. To be fair, there wasn't much of a push back from ANYONE when it came to the dove bill here in MI; even the local sportsman's group dropped the ball.....however, I see less and less in regards to "hunters rights" than I do to "black gun enthusiast" rights. I guess if you don't hunt it with an AR15, you just don't matter. Another issue that they could have done more for (IMHO) is the banning of lead bullets in CA and other areas.........
I was going to reenlist in the NRA, but I will wait to see how much of a fight they put up re: these new rules & regs. If I see much in the way of support (instead of just lip service, which is all I'm feeling now), I will reconsider my position.

I think that you're a bit misguided in your distain for the NRA. It's the National RIFLE Association and has nothing specifically to do with hunting. They focus their efforts on domestic gun rights, via the 2nd Amendment and the protection of that right. I'm sorry that they don't fulfill your vision of 'hunters rights' but that's just not what they do. Sure, from time to time they may put forward an opinion and backing of some hunting issues but the main focus of the monies that they receive are not directed to those efforts.

Your emphasis on the 'black gun enthusiast' harkens back the old saying, except you can substitute your favorite gun/activities instead. You get the picture.
-------
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
--------

 

[gizmo]

Without a doubt this is all a big sh$t sandwich and we are all going to have to take a bite. I have to agree with the earlier posts. We should all be calling, writing, and visiting our elected reps no matter who they are. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. If we inundate them with calls and emails they will have to listen. This doesn't effect just us Americans. It effects all of us. Africans, Canadians, and the like should all be concerned. Think of the revenue lost if we Americans are stuck at home because of ridiculous laws like this. The Zimbabwe and Tanzania elephant ban is but a drop of piss in the ocean in comparison to what can happen. The threat is very real. We should ALL start taking this seriously.

 

[Dragan N.]

I think that you're a bit misguided in your distain for the NRA. It's the National RIFLE Association and has nothing specifically to do with hunting. They focus their efforts on domestic gun rights, via the 2nd Amendment and the protection of that right. I'm sorry that they don't fulfill your vision of 'hunters rights' but that's just not what they do. Sure, from time to time they may put forward an opinion and backing of some hunting issues but the main focus of the monies that they receive are not directed to those efforts.

Your emphasis on the 'black gun enthusiast' harkens back the old saying, except you can substitute your favorite gun/activities instead. You get the picture.
-------
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me
--------

Well yes and no imo. The reverse also holds true if the NRA or any org. becomes so focused on one issue ie on the rights of "black gun enthusiast" and they let other issues slide like the banning of lead ammo for hunting, then this exact same scenario plays out but in the reverse. There should be a balance where no one issue should go largely ignored just because not all people in the organization think its particularly important. I think what 16 gauge was saying was that they have become to focused on this issue at the expense of other issues. I don't think he was saying that they should just all together drop or ignore the rights of these enthusiasts just that they should also look after other gun's owners interests as well.

While I do agree with you that the primary role of the NRA is gun rights and to protect the second amendment, which is an amazing right Americans have, hunting and gun issues are related by blood. Almost every gun owner that I know is also a hunter, so the rights of those people who practice these two hobbies are very closely intertwined. Gun owners should stand up for hunters and hunters should stand up for gun owners.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

I think that you're a bit misguided in your distain for the NRA. It's the National RIFLE Association and has nothing specifically to do with hunting. They focus their efforts on domestic gun rights, via the 2nd Amendment and the protection of that right. I'm sorry that they don't fulfill your vision of 'hunters rights' but that's just not what they do. Sure, from time to time they may put forward an opinion and backing of some hunting issues but the main focus of the monies that they receive are not directed to those efforts.

Your emphasis on the 'black gun enthusiast' harkens back the old saying, except you can substitute your favorite gun/activities instead. You get the picture.

--------

I must respectfully disagree......I remember back in my youth the NRA being VERY involved with hunters and hunting issues; back when states were trying to set up hunter safety programs, etc., the NRA was very much involved, as well as several conservation projects. They also used to have hunts and awards at some place called the Whittington center (don't know if they still do or not). They even publish a magazine......the American Hunter...for those who liked to hunt but weren't necessarily firearms enthusiasts. The NRA was made up primarily of hunters, and everyone enjoined the benefits of the organization.
Not any more................

..........and I think you're mistaken: I don't have any disdain for the NRA, but I certainly have a lot of disappointment! I realize that what they do is important re: 2nd amendment rights, but they seem to do it to the exclusion of others' rights. Your little saying, about people not stepping up and speaking up, could apply to the NRA and support of hunters as well.

While I do agree with you that the primary role of the NRA is gun rights and to protect the second amendment, which is an amazing right Americans have, hunting and gun issues are related by blood. Almost every gun owner that I know is also a hunter, so the rights of those people who practice these two hobbies are very closely intertwined. Gun owners should stand up for hunters and hunters should stand up for gun owners.

Bravo, sir.............well said!

.....and, quite frankly, this IS a gun rights issue!!! It deals with the rights of those who hunt to take their firearms out of the country without the Fed. govt putting undo regulations on them; regulations which we are finding out are impossible to comply with. So where is the NRA? If they speak for all firearms owners, why haven't they stepped up? Maybe it's because we can't take our 'black rifles" to Africa, so we just don't matter? (BTW: I do own an AR15 and an M1A, so don't even try and go the route of I'm being prejudice against firearms choice).

As I said earlier, I will reconsider my membership after I see what kind of pressure they put on congress with re: to this issue.

But I didn't mean to switch the focus of this thread from what it was intended, so I won't press on with opinions re: the NRA, et al. I certainly will follow this thread, though, and hope that all those are troubled by this find an effective solution to the problem.

 

[Areaonereal]

Spoke with local customs officer, he contacted Chicago last week regarding this new reqiurment..They were uninformed nor had any knowledge of this requirement and as such were not enforcing nor concerned about it......Might want to check with Atlanta Customs since so many fly thru Atlanta to Joberg, They may have a different opinion and how it is to enforced. This has been in place for some time and apparently not enforced.

 

[lcq]

Welcome to the UN world government club people. We Canadians have been enduring this crap since the sickening anti-gun Liberals ratified it here. At least they did it through the democratic process and it was voted on in parliment. Barack Hussein Obama bypassed Congress and the Senate and did it by executive order. The guy is truly the Manchurian Candidate. Best of luck the next two years are going to be rough my friends.

 

[Areaonereal]

Just spoke with a Customs Supervisor in ATL, he was familiar with the issue, said it was designed for the Southern States to prevent Gunrunning into Mexico. His comment, do not read to much into that AES directive, "don't borrow trouble as per the export reqirment", they are not recognizing nor enforcing anything other than the 4457. " just go to Jobereg enjoy the hunt and have your 4457 in order when you return". Take this as it was told to me and you should use your own due diligence regarding this matter.

 

[Wheels]

Just got this from SCI

Alert to SCI Members About Changes to Requirements for Traveling from the U.S. With Firearms/Ammunition


Safari Club International has received information about changes in the requirements for hunters who wish to export/bring their firearms and ammunition with them when they travel to hunt outside the United States. SCI has been researching these new requirements in order to understand exactly why these changes are going into effect and what will be required of our members who wish to travel with their firearms and ammunition to hunt in other countries. A great deal of confusion still remains, but we are attempting to present members with some of the questions being raised and the answers we have discovered so far. Please note that the information below is not intended to serve as legal advice. Before traveling, SCI members are advised to consult directly with U.S. Customs and Border Protection and/or their own legal counsel:

Q: What is now required of a hunter who wishes to export/bring his or her firearms/ammunition to hunt outside the U.S.?
A. If a hunter wishes to temporarily export three or fewer non-automatic firearms from the United States and 1000 or fewer cartridges -- at the time of his/her departure from the U.S., he or she must declare the articles to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officer, present the Internal Transaction Number (ITN) obtained from the submission of the Electronic Export Information in the Automated Export System (AES) and present the firearms and/or cartridges for a visual inspection to the CBP officer at the port of departure from the United States.

The firearms and ammunition to be exported must be with the individual’s accompanied or unaccompanied (checked) baggage or effects.

The owner must declare that the firearms and/or ammunition to be exported are for his/her exclusive use and not for re-export or other transfer of ownership. The owner must state that it is his/her intent to return with the firearms/ammunition on his/her return to the United States.

See 22 C.F.R. §123.17

Q. Which of these requirements are new?
A. Firearm/ammunition owners are newly being required to submit Electronic Export Information (EEI) in the Automated Export System (AES) to obtain an Internal Transaction Number (ITN).

The AES is a joint venture between CBP, the Foreign Trade Division of the Bureau of the Census (under the Department of Commerce), the Bureau of Industry and Security (under Commerce), the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (under the Department of State), other Federal agencies, and the export trade community.

Q. How are the new export requirements different than what was previously required?
A. For many years, the State Department’s International Trafficking in Arms Regulations (ITAR) have allowed Americans to temporarily export up to three non-automatic firearms and up to 1,000 rounds of ammunition without a license, as long as the firearms were declared and presented to a CBP officer (also known as a Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) license exemption). Previously, the owner of the firearms/ammunition would bring the firearms/ammunition to a CBP office at some point before the trip and would complete Customs Form 4457—a form that can be completed for any personal property and that is normally used to prove that the traveler owned the property before going abroad. The form protects a traveler from paying import duties on items already owned. The owner of the firearms/ammunition would retain the form and present it upon reentry if needed. Form 4457 will no longer satisfy the requirements for bringing firearms/ammunition out of the country.

Additional information about the new requirements can be obtained from the Immigration and Customs Enforcement website: https://www.ice.gov/cpi/faq

Q. Why is this change going into effect now?
A. These new requirements became part of regulations that went into effect in 2012. For reasons unknown at this time, the government has only recently decided to implement them.

Q. When do these changes go into effect?
A. While we do not know for certain, some sources indicate that these changes have already gone into effect. Other sources state that the changes will be imposed on April 3, 2015. Regardless, it appears that CBP may not actually be ready to fully implement these changes. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) may not be able to require individuals to use the AES system because the system requires entry of an Employer Identification Number (EIN). EINs are normally only obtained by businesses, and the Internal Revenue Service says they should only be used for tax purposes. Because individuals do not generally possess EINs, it may not be possible for ICE to require hunters to utilize them for firearms exportation purposes. SCI is currently investigating this question.

SCI has learned from the National Rifle Association that CBP has instituted a temporary plan for those who wish to export their firearms and who are either unaware of the new requirements or are unable to use the AES system. We have been told that, under the temporary plan, CBP officers at airports can manually enter identifying information about the traveler/exporter and his/her firearms. SCI is attempting to verify this information. We do not know how long this temporary plan may be in effect. We also do not know what system will be available for those who are leaving the U.S. by means other than airports (e.g., driving to Canada).

Q. What is SCI doing to address these changes?
A. Currently, SCI is gathering information to try to better inform our members about what they will need to do to ensure that they are complying the new requirements. At the same time, we will be working on ways to delay the implementation of the requirements until our members have a better understanding of how to comply. We are also working with our partners in the hunting and recreational shooting communities to challenge the implementation of these requirements. We will continue to update you as we obtain additional information.



SCI seems to be regurgitating information our members here figured out about Thursday. It doesn't seem they have added to our common knowledge with the extra time. Go figure......

 

[ornery]

NRA/ILA has had a blurb/press release that has been going out on FB. Every time the thing pops up o my page I make a comment about where the info came from and how it can effect a gun owner. Lots of guys saying "who cares, I don't go out of the US" they just don't get it...even when you jog their conscience.

 

[Frostbit]

Just spoke with a Customs Supervisor in ATL, he was familiar with the issue, said it was designed for the Southern States to prevent Gunrunning into Mexico. His comment, do not read to much into that AES directive, "don't borrow trouble as per the export reqirment", they are not recognizing nor enforcing anything other than the 4457. " just go to Jobereg enjoy the hunt and have your 4457 in order when you return". Take this as it was told to me and you should use your own due diligence regarding this matter.

I would beware of one Officer's opinion. He might not be on duty the days you leave or come back. As far as running guns into Mexico, the only person I'm aware of doing that was Eric Holder the Attorney General.