My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass thanks for the video just reading through the posts and saw this comment. Had the same issue until I picked up a leupold pro staff bins. Used to close one eye on most binoculars. Was on a photo safari and the guide really wanted them. Excellent last/first light capability as well.

I am glad someone sympathizes with my situation. Good glass changes everything!

 

[Forrest Halley]

I use black electrical tape, from the hardware store, to make a 3" cross on a white paper. Helps me align the crosshairs, not canted and resolve the aiming point.
Once scope is sighed in, I use a 1" black aiming point, tape or Sharpie, and shoot for accurate shot placement.

I think @RayAtkinson has it correct that 3x or 4x scopes just work in the field.

Mr. O'Connor and Mr. Keith recommended the same decades ago. Works for my poor eyes.

I really wish Leupold would make a run of the fixed 3x scope, with an illuminated Fire dot reticle.

If some Marketing whizz could convince the 3-gun crowd, that 3x scope magnification really works out to 300 yards, we could be in business with useful hunting scopes.

The thing I dislike with electrical tape is that it falls off in the heat and it's hard to see hits on at distance.

I'd be really interested to see a study done on powers and splits for engagement on targets. I'd submit that there's very little difference between 1-4x.

What kind of 3x are you looking for? I think a 1-8 with some larger objective lens would be nice and a generous eye box and relief.

 

[Mac13]

I am glad someone sympathizes with my situation. Good glass changes everything!

Absolutely. I went on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico back in the mid 90's with a good friend of mine. it was a 2 on 1 hunt and he won the coin toss to shoot first. The guide would take us to hay field each morning and we would go in the dark, get set up and wait for first light. I had a 4x16x50 Swarovski and he had a 4x14x52 Leupold.
We could soon make out the shapes of elk in the field. As the minutes went buy I could make out two bulls, a 6x6 and 5x5 at about 120 yards. My friend could not identify the antlers for another 5-7 minutes at which point they were now leaving the field and at over 500 yards. I offered him my rifle when they were at 120 yards and he wouldn't take. We didn't end up with an elk that trip.

BTW, I am taking this same Swarovski to Botswana in 3 weeks and it is as clear now as it was when I purchased it almost 30 years ago.

 

[Philip Glass]

Absolutely. I went on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico back in the mid 90's with a good friend of mine. it was a 2 on 1 hunt and he won the coin toss to shoot first. The guide would take us to hay field each morning and we would go in the dark, get set up and wait for first light. I had a 4x16x50 Swarovski and he had a 4x14x52 Leupold.
We could soon make out the shapes of elk in the field. As the minutes went buy I could make out two bulls, a 6x6 and 5x5 at about 120 yards. My friend could not identify the antlers for another 5-7 minutes at which point they were now leaving the field and at over 500 yards. I offered him my rifle when they were at 120 yards and he wouldn't take. We didn't end up with an elk that trip.

BTW, I am taking this same Swarovski to Botswana in 3 weeks and it is as clear now as it was when I purchased it almost 30 years ago.

This is an excellent comparison scenario in low light. Thank you for sharing this great story.
It is what was taught to us at SAAM when comparing glass.
Swarovski will ruin you as there is no comparison especially Z8.
When it comes to glass, when you know, you know!

 

[0002S]

when you know, you know!

………………………………

 

[rookhawk]

Here is a video where I discuss my journey in finding the ultimate DG scope. Bombs away!

@Philip Glass while I don't agree with all of your statements, I applaud you for putting in the work to share a perspective with tangible examples. There really isn't that much good video content related to safari calibers and accessories so I appreciate your efforts.

Not trying to move your point of view, but areas of agreement and disagreement.

1.) I have no problem with your Z8 1.7-12x scope for a 375. I have bigger problems with the stock design and the high or medium rings. If I was to own such a scope for a 375HH, I would definitely have EAW pivot mounts so that I can get it 1/2" lower on the gun than your mounting. I expect all my guns to be designed with a pitched stock for rapid target acquisition with iron sights, and correpsonding optic height that is equally low. That personal expectation means I spend a lot more than most on mounts because its an obsession for me.

2.) You claimed your 1-6x24 leupold by inference was not appropriate for 200 yard shots on impala for leopard bait. I can't speak to your leupold, but the worst light gathering of any scope I've owned was the leupold 1.5-5x32mm illuminated. Inversely, I've hunted all over the world virtually exclusively with 1-6x24 Swaros under a myriad of conditions. Elk, Bear, Leopard, Elephant, 20 species of plains game, white tail deer, etc. No issues with shots out to 350 yards. The newer 1-8x24 might make those longer shots even easier. Again, I can't critique your opinion if its specific to the Leupold that I've never used, but I've never had issues with any stalking rifles.

Quoting Boddington stating he couldn't make a shot at 80 yards on a croc with a dangerous game scope is inferring that its light gathering and zoom rather than a bad reticle. An 80 yard croc brain shot is a chip shot. My ten year old son took such a shot with a Dakota 375HH with a z6 1-6x24mm on a nice trophy croc. He went on to shoot the same rifle on many creatures inside of 300 yards on that and subsequent trips.

Will I die on my hill screaming like a lunatic that you should want a straight tube scope? Nah. But I will die on the hill that I think 99% of rifles mounts, rings, and stocks are all wrong, designed for slow acquisition off sticks with the mounts way too high. Also, with a monte carlo stock best suited for bench shooting that is not set up for a spot-and-stalk hunting scenario.

So if I had a magic wand to destroy all product on the planet, I wouldn't use the wish on your higher power scopes, I'd get rid of the silly stocks and the medium, high, and extra high rings prevalent in the market, they are incorrect for almost all hunting applications. Heck, even a 2-10x50mm optic fits in a mere medium height ring if the right mounts are used. Time is ticking, you have seconds to make a good shot, there is no time to seek and move your head finding focus and twirling dials to move the 10x zoom back to 3x to find the quarry!

 

[CBeck]

For me personally I do stop at .375 currently for a scoped rifle. I am now in love with my double with the little Kahles red dot that makes it a 100yd gun.

Thanks for your insight…I came across this thread while contemplating a similar thought. What would be a versatile optic for my .375? Currently, it’s the 1-5 you’re not fond of and you about had me convinced until this statement, where I began to wonder…..

If an unmagnified red dot is good to 100 yards then why is a 1-5 or 6 a problem at say 200?

 

[375Fox]

Thanks for your insight…I came across this thread while contemplating a similar thought. What would be a versatile optic for my .375? Currently, it’s the 1-5 you’re not fond of and you about had me convinced until this statement, where I began to wonder…..

If an unmagnified red dot is good to 100 yards then why is a 1-5 or 6 a problem at say 200?

The question is do you consider a 375 primarily a close range rifle or a rifle capable of 300+ yards? If you want your 375 as a primarily DG gun that gives you the option to shoot 200 yards occasionally put a 1-5 on. If you want it as a more versatile one rifle safari cartridge but something like a 2-10 on. I originally put a 1-5 on mine and upgraded to a 2-10. I found the high power much more useful than the low power in the situations I needed it. On both scopes it remained at 5x while normal hunting and was only turned down on follow up or up on a long shot. I really can’t see a functional difference between 1x and 2x but I can see a very significant difference between 5x and 10x when I’ve taken shots out to and slightly past 300 yards. I should also add I also put a red dot on my 458 and practiced out to 100 yards, but the intended hunting range is inside 50 yards. The difference is I plan to hunt with my 375 anywhere from 10-300+ yards on any given hunting day.

 

[mark-hunter]

What would be a versatile optic for my .375?

I consider my 375 to be close range rifle, and 300 meters capable.

My set up is:

Swarovski Z6 1.7-10x42, with illuminated dot.
German swing mounts QD.
And one important detail: zeroed & tested iron sights, just in case. (zeroed @ 50 m)

Then, you are covered for any eventuality.

 

[KJE81]

I have a similar setup as mark-hunter for my incoming custom rifle, I actually recently got a picture from the gun smith who is working with fitting the swing mounts. They will then be silver nitrated and engraved to match the style of the reciever which is more or less finished.

The mounts looks really high but I think its because both the barrel and the bolt is removed from the reciever on the picture.

It feels like everything takes forever, but I guess that is standard when awaiting delivery of a new custom rifle.

 

[CBeck]

I have a similar setup as mark-hunter for my incoming custom rifle, I actually recently got a picture from the gun smith who is working with fitting the swing mounts. They will then be silver nitrated and engraved to match the style of the reciever which is more or less finished.

The mounts looks really high but I think its because both the barrel and the bolt is removed from the reciever on the picture.

It feels like everything takes forever, but I guess that is standard when awaiting delivery of a new custom rifle.

View attachment 655476

That’s going to be beautiful….I know the waiting is the worst part.

 

[uplander01]

The waiting is a ridiculous, I have two projects going at griffin Howe, one has been there for 2 years, the other 8 months. All I can say if there is that much work stacked up at 5-10k a pop they should be hiring more people until the turnaround gets to about 6 months for anything. Shit just doesn’t take that long. I’m also starting to wonder if they just aren’t flush with doing work for rich guys that are constantly sending them stuff, and the rest of us don’t matter.

To the scope point, the various good 1-6 scopes out there would work and look appropriate on any African out to 200-300 easy. I’ve shot stuff at 300 yards with a 1-4 on a 375.

 

[Sideshow]

The waiting is a ridiculous, I have two projects going at griffin Howe, one has been there for 2 years, the other 8 months. All I can say if there is that much work stacked up at 5-10k a pop they should be hiring more people until the turnaround gets to about 6 months for anything. Shit just doesn’t take that long. I’m also starting to wonder if they just aren’t flush with doing work for rich guys that are constantly sending them stuff, and the rest of us don’t matter.

To the scope point, the various good 1-6 scopes out there would work and look appropriate on any African out to 200-300 easy. I’ve shot stuff at 300 yards with a 1-4 on a 375.

No don’t think it’s the rich guy theory. My gun maker here in the uk is just the same. It takes the time that it takes. You can’t rush something that’s made by hand. lol it’s not some mass produced heap of junk.
You want that go buy a Blazer

Guys that are in the trade and know their stuff are getting very thin on the ground. It’s just how it goes.

 

[MLindsay]

I just bought a 1.25-8 Bushnell 6500 to try on my 500 A2. It has 5 inches of eye relief like my Nikon slughunter so I am going to try it. If it fails I will put the slughunter back on

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks for your insight…I came across this thread while contemplating a similar thought. What would be a versatile optic for my .375? Currently, it’s the 1-5 you’re not fond of and you about had me convinced until this statement, where I began to wonder…..

If an unmagnified red dot is good to 100 yards then why is a 1-5 or 6 a problem at say 200?

The point of the video is that there are better options. Hunters have used only open sights for decades at various distances. We have good glass now. Why limit yourself? The VX6 2-12x and the Swaro Z8 1.7-13x that I mention are both far superior in every way to the conventional DG scope. The ruined croc hunts mentioned by me and Boddington are examples of the needed versatility in a scope.

 

[uplander01]

Some of my optics bias is I just like straight tube scopes on safari rifles....but I will admit the shooting gets much easier the better and more powerful scope you have. I'm also one of the weirdos that goes to Africa and leaves my scope off and insists on hunting at close range, at least for the first half of the hunt, it seems more enjoyable to me....the exception of course is when absolute precision like braining a croc on the shoreline is involved

 

[KJE81]

That’s going to be beautiful….I know the waiting is the worst part.

Thank you, the waiting somehow manages to feel worse the closer it gets to completion.

 

[KJE81]

The waiting is a ridiculous, I have two projects going at griffin Howe, one has been there for 2 years, the other 8 months. All I can say if there is that much work stacked up at 5-10k a pop they should be hiring more people until the turnaround gets to about 6 months for anything. Shit just doesn’t take that long. I’m also starting to wonder if they just aren’t flush with doing work for rich guys that are constantly sending them stuff, and the rest of us don’t matter.

To the scope point, the various good 1-6 scopes out there would work and look appropriate on any African out to 200-300 easy. I’ve shot stuff at 300 yards with a 1-4 on a 375.

I am at 10 months now and quite sure that it is at least a couple of months left. Its mostly engraving left but the gun maker warned me that the engraving and the stock was the slowest parts of the process.

Hopefully it will be ready in time for doing some practice before the hunting season commences here in Sweden.

 

[KJE81]

No don’t think it’s the rich guy theory. My gun maker here in the uk is just the same. It takes the time that it takes. You can’t rush something that’s made by hand. lol it’s not some mass produced heap of junk.
You want that go buy a Blazer

Guys that are in the trade and know their stuff are getting very thin on the ground. It’s just how it goes.

I also try to take comfort in the thought that everything takes the time it does due to the level of work by hand that is involved as opposed to a rifle made mostly by machines.

 

[CBeck]

The point of the video is that there are better options. Hunters have used only open sights for decades at various distances. We have good glass now. Why limit yourself? The VX6 2-12x and the Swaro Z8 1.7-13x that I mention are both far superior in every way to the conventional DG scope. The ruined croc hunts mentioned by me and Boddington are examples of the needed versatility in a scope.

I realize the point of the video and as I mentioned, that’s what led me to this post to begin with…

On a slightly different note, I watched your 2023 Safari video, I believe it was, and noticed on one of your rifles you had an Sig Sauer scope on one rifle? I’m curious what your opinions are on them…not much info that I have found.