My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Red Leg]

With the exception of QD mounts I second the vast majority of this video. It probably does reflect the way most of us hunt Africa, which is with a general purpose rifle equipped to deal with both DG and PG.

I don't think the lower end matters a great deal as long as it isn't above 3. I have taken buffalo with a 3x9 Trijicon, a 1x6 Leupold, and the others with a 2.5x10 Leica. They were all set on 4 power when I pulled the trigger and no follow-up was required. Had it been, I would have taken 20 seconds using Talley or Blaser rings to dismount and stow the scope, and I then would have used open sights. All of those scopes took a lot of PG during those same hunts. As I also noted above, I have never had a Talley or Blaser or Recknagel misbehave, and do not go to Africa with a fixed mounted scope (or much of anywhere else for that matter).

I also don't understand the need for power above 6 for any normal hunting. I have now been using a rifle for right at fifty-five years, and I have never taken a game animal with anything set higher than 6, and I would guess 85% or more were taken at four power. That hunting includes a lot of North America, Africa, and Europe and shots out to a bit over 300. I have never taken a shot at a game animal at 400 and don't intend to start.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass

I actually have multiples of all the scopes in your video. I agree with your take. I find the Z8i 4A-IF reticle is one of the easiest to offhand, 'snap shoot', a 8" target at 50 yards and under. IMHO the Z8i 1.7-13.3 x42 P is probably the best all around hunting scope on the market today (price not dependent). Even at ranges, at or over 400 yards, the elevation/windage turrets offer the ability to dope the shots easily. The complete versatility of this scope is amazing. The only draw back is the cost of entry.

I find the Leupold VX-6HD 2-12x42 CDS-ZL2 illum. firedot duplex to be one of the best value based alternatives to the Zeiss and Swaro offerings. I've taken the time to work up loads for the CDS custom dial system and it does work, although it's limited to one rifle/round. The firedot is not as easy on my stigmatism than the Swaro dot (that's just me).

I don't find the 1-4x or 1-6x to be that much of a hindrance at longer ranges. I have experience at shoot at longer ranges so it really isn't a bother for me. I do appreciate greater magnification in certain low light situations. An example would shooting a dark bodied animal against a dark background. This is also when premium glass comes into play.

Have you ever hunted with the Trijicon post/triangle reticle? I find this is the best offhand, 'snap shot' or moving animal reticle for me. The triangle point tip naturally comes to my aim point and the twin bar post helps me to keep the rifle level and naturally leads the animal, for me at least. I first became a fan of this type of reticle hog hunting and have since used it on other game with great success.

Most people don't, for a variety of reasons, try different scope options in the field. It wasn't until I borrowed a rifle that had premium glass, that I became a believer in the value of 'great glass'. I can't argue that more animals have been harvested over the years with scopes that cost much less than the best out there. I can argue that the job was accomplished easier in the toughest of light situations.

-jm2c

Thanks and it is so nice to hear from someone with experience using the scopes mentioned in the video. I grew up with open sights and 4x fixed scopes so yes I can easily use those lower powered scopes for many situations. However my 50+ year old eyes surely appreciate more magnification these days!
I have hunted with a post sight as you mention. It would be great for a driven boar hunt in Europe.
Your comments in the final paragraph are exactly why I made the video. Most people just don't know!
Philip

 

[Philip Glass]

Great post. Philip is 20 safaris in. His advice should be heeded. I just added the March 1.5-15 on my 375 ruger after reading Philip’s post.

People love to parrot things they have heard or read. The 1-4 or 1-6 on dangerous game rifles is one of them. Another is that 6x is enough magnification for long range shots. Someone here said they can hit a fly’s ass at 200m with 6x. Man that’s just not the case for the vast majority of people.

Another is that all dangerous game work takes place at 25 yards. What about when the buffalo runs, you track, and have to make a 150 yard follow up shot before it bolts again?

Thank you!

 

[Daisy]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?

 

[Philip Glass]

For dangerous game and anything moving or up close, I generally prefer 1x. A true 1x optic allows both eyes open and direct target focus rather than switching from target to optic to target. Schmidt and Bender makes a very good one and Vortex also dominates that sector with this: https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-razor-hd-gen-iii-1-10x24-riflescope+reticle-EBR-9~MOA

You can dial it up and the glass is on par with any high end euro Schott Glass.

Nightforce also makes a solid 1x variable…

That depends on everyone's eyes and we are not all the same. I can keep both eyes open with the 2x easily.

 

[Daisy]

Same shot with Philips scope at 13.3

 

[Philip Glass]

I recently got a Leupold VX-6 1x6x24 Firedot. Haven't mounted it on the rifle yet because it's still being built but did play around with it a bit. I don't know what the big deal is about the scopes costing $3k or more. This thing is crystal clear from edge to edge, the controls are easy, positive click on W&E and the Firedot is sharp. Maybe it will fly apart when I finally get to shoot with it, that would be disappointing.

Ok more magnification would be nice for that +300-yard shot at a Dik-dik but really, more is not always better.

The VX6 is excellent glass. I learned from the instructors at SAAM shooting school how to compare scopes. They get all the new products given to them to test since Tim Fallon is the guru of all gurus! He is also president of DSC now. We took all the best scopes out to the range at dusk and were instructed to look at the detail of a tree's bark as the sun was going down. Wow, that is when you can tell the difference! Much different scenario that comparing in a store under bright lights.
At the end of our session I simply asked the instructors "what is really the best glass in your opinion"? Swarovski was the unanimous winner.

 

[Red Leg]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?
View attachment 574360

If you are talking to me, I do not believe I have taken a shot at 300 with 4X. Though I have taken many game animals to 250 with 4X. I suspect I have only taken three game animals at 300ish, and they were all at 6x. Don't have much use for shooting beyond that.

 

[Red Leg]

That depends on everyone's eyes and we are not all the same. I can keep both eyes open with the 2x easily.

I suspect you do as I do. I shoot both eyes open regardless of magnification. The brain just switches off, in my case, the left eye.

 

[Red Leg]

Same shot with Philips scope at 13.3
View attachment 574361

Correct, but how much perceived movement have you added to target acquisition and the shot? I have never mastered taking a bench to the field.

 

[Daisy]

Correct, but how much perceived movement have you added to target acquisition and the shot? I have never mastered taking a bench to the field

I have no doubt you can make that shot! I just can’t. I use as much magnification as I can.

I’m 43. Maybe it’s an age thing because I grew up always using scopes. It’s probably made me a worse shot for it.

I will say at 250 or 300 yards you are generally not where the animal can see you well. So you can set up on sticks or prone. So a snap shot is not the case at that distance.

 

[skydiver386]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?
View attachment 574360

Yes, and I do it often with much less magnification. I have always thought that optical clarity, a sharply defined reticle and the skill of the shooter in holding the rifle steady are the real keys to accuracy.

Most of us on this forum understand the need for quality glass and we will spend money to get it. What I think is much less common is the desire to spend money on proper training or practice. Be honest with yourself, when was the last time you went to a rifle shooting course, or paid for professional instruction?

This last summer I attended an Appleseed Shoot, and it amazes me how many people there had never shot standing, kneeling sitting or prone. This is rifle shooting 101, and it seems like most shooters skip right over it.

 

[0002S]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?
View attachment 574360

Quick and dirty answer to that question is yes.

Reality is there are a lot of variables, in that shot, that would have me not taking it, with a 4x scope. First and foremost my rest. I could go down a list of other variable that would also not have me taking that shot with a 4x.

But given a solid rest, known distance, constant atmospheric conditions and accurate rifle/round. That is not a hard shot. (for me). Now having all those variables lined up all at once.....lol.

But more magnification wouldn't make up enough, for those variables either. Especially a solid rest and accurate round/rifle. Having more magnification, at my disposal, is always a welcomed thing.

One of the reason I like the red triangle on the Trijicon scopes is the point of the triangle allows me a much more precise aim point than an illuminated dot. The dot eventually covers the vitals and you're not really sure of the exact aim point.

Please don't think I'm advocating long range hunting or low magnification scopes for long range shots. There is a time and place for everything and a range that everything will work in. Having the knowledge and actual skill to push the boundaries has to be learned through practice and in the field. Having the common sense to know when to say no is often the hardest lesson to learn.

 

[Daisy]

Quick and dirty answer to that question is yes.

Reality is there are a lot of variables, in that shot, that would have me not taking it, with a 4x scope. First and foremost my rest. I could go down a list of other variable that would also not have me taking that shot with a 4x.

But given a solid rest, known distance, constant atmospheric conditions and accurate rifle/round. That is not a hard shot. (for me). Now having all those variables lined up all at once.....lol.

But more magnification wouldn't make up enough, for those variables either. Especially a solid rest and accurate round/rifle. Having more magnification, at my disposal, is always a welcomed thing.

One of the reason I like the red triangle on the Trijicon scopes is the point of the triangle allows me a much more precise aim point than an illuminated dot. The dot eventually covers the vitals and you're not really sure of the exact aim point.

Please don't think I'm advocating long range hunting or low magnification scopes for long range shots. There is a time and place for everything and a range that everything will work in. Having the knowledge and actual skill to push the boundaries has to be learned through practice and in the field. Having the common sense to know when to say no is often the hardest lesson to learn.

Great post. Thanks my man

 

[WAB]

I suspect you do as I do. I shoot both eyes open regardless of magnification. The brain just switches off, in my case, the left eye.

Agreed, I do the same.

 

[375Fox]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?
View attachment 574360

These were all taken on 5x off top of truck between 200 and 330 yards with 375 H&H. No missed shots that evening, took a jackal as well. Increased power gives more confidence, but my groups shot at range at 300 yards are still 3”-4” with my 375 with the old 5x scope I had and the new 10x scope I have.

 

[lockingblock]

I suspect you do as I do. I shoot both eyes open regardless of magnification. The brain just switches off, in my case, the left eye.

With a true 1x, the brain doesn’t switch one eye off. That only happens when eyes have different magnification levels…

Its the advantage of red dots and why they are used for CQB.

 

[Rafiki]

4x view at 300 yards. You can shoot for vitals like this?
View attachment 574360

How about a 6x?

BTW, what is this app? Looks pretty useful.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have quite a few Buffalo tallied. I use Leupold VX6 1-6x24 scopes with Talley QD rings on my .375 H&H and .458 Lott, both M70’s. I prefer the Swarovski Z6 1-6x24, and Z8 1-8x24, but you have to go to medium rings to clear the bolt. I have shot a fair bit of PG with these rigs. I have never encountered a situation requiring more magnification. My hunts are in the bush so 200 yards is a long shot.

I have never had a reliability or
Return to zero issue with Talley QD rings.

My Rigby HS in 9.3x62 has EAW pivot mounts. Again, utterly reliable with perfect return to zero.

for my leopard i want and have a Swaro illuminated scope which i think is critical for leopard

 

[WAB]

for my leopard i want and have a Swaro illuminated scope which i think is critical for leopard

I would consider something like the Z6i 1.7-10x.