My Take on Dangerous Game Scopes

[Daisy]

I shoot a .416 rem mag wearing a leica 1-6.3 ×24 with illuminated reticle. This set up has functioned without fail for 5 years now and has been good from 20 m to 200 m. In my opinion Leica is right up there with the best. I grew up shooting open sights but do feel that a scoped rifle gives me as a visiting client a better chance of shooting a good shot 1st time round or making a shot possible with time running out that would not be so with irons.

I often read about shooting 200+ yards with 6x scope. I’ll say whoever does that on a regular basis is a better man than me. On a 3k dollar harvest animal….no thanks b

 

[Forrest Halley]

Exactly. I have 6 of the VXR 1.25X4's. I have one on my CZ .375 H&H, an AR-15, a Microtec AUG, a Scorpyd crossbow, a Savage muzzle loader, etc. I even have several new in the box stashed for my .450 Rigby build.

I think the VXR line was discontinued because the lighted reticle has become available on many other lines of Leupold scopes, and it wasn't worth carrying a separate model who's only distinguishing feature was that reticle.

Because it was competing with the higher end lighted models' sales? I don't see a lighted 2-7x33 anymore. Bummer.

 

[Ridgewalker]

Thanks Phillip! As always your excellent videos create a lot of interest. I also like your calm presentations.

I grew up using a fixed 4x Weaver on my .22 and a fixed 4x Redfield on my 30-06. Shot elk at 30 yards in dark timber and antelope at 435 yards in Wyoming. Worked fine, but then there were no such thing as variable scopes. Actually B&B had a variable the first I remember, but to zero it you adjusted the mounts and not the reticle. Very expensive!

Now I am totally spoiled and haven’t owned a rifle in maybe 50 years without a variable scope. Today almost all my scopes have an illuminated reticle. Really really really helps my old eyes acquire a target much quicker.

That said, I had a VX-6 1-6x on my 375 H&H when I took a blesbok at approximately 350 yards. It was sighted in for lion at 100 yards, so I used the magic of ranging and hold-over (old school hold-over) and it worked.

I still carry two scopes in QR mounts. 1) 1-6x and 1) 2-12x. Each sighted in differently, but tested to know where they hit. This gives me a backup as well. “Nock on wood” but they both have gone back to “0” each time I have switched.

Thanks again for your presentation!

 

[skydiver386]

Because it was competing with the higher end lighted models' sales? I don't see a lighted 2-7x33 anymore. Bummer.

Not so much that it was competing with other models, but simply production capacity. Any time a new model is introduced, something else in the line has to go.

 

[Scott CWO]

Here is a video where I discuss my journey in finding the ultimate DG scope. Bombs away!

@Philip Glass I agree with most of what you said, especially for a scoped 375 caliber bolt action rifle. All my newer scopes also have a red dot on the reticle. I have a Leupold VX6 2x-12 on my Whitworth Interarms Mauser. I find that 2x is low enough for lion, buffalo and other DG but I can crank it up for longer shots at PG. I have the same scope on my AHR CZ550 375 that I use for a client gun in Alaska.

On my AHR CZ550 458 Lott, I have a Leupold VX-R 2x-7 on it for use as my guiding gun for brown bear. For elephant with this same rifle, I have a Leica red dot sight that is sighted for 25 yards. I also have an “old school” Leupold VX3 1.5x-5 sighted at 25 yards for elephant. I also take all three of these optics with me to Alaska in case one fails or I have to track a wounded bear into heavy alders and decide to remove the scope to use the iron sights or the Leica red dot.

This is where I disagree with you concerning QD mounts. I have never had an issue with Talley QD rings not going back to zero or becoming loose. I finger tighten them and then use my Leatherman tool to tighten them another 1/8”. The CZ550 integral bridge and dovetail also helps prevent issues with returning to zero. I can develop different loads for the different scopes as well and easily switch the scope out for another scope/load. On my last several trips to Africa and Alaska after reattaching the scopes, I’ve only had to fire one shot each time to confirm zero with this system. I make sure to reattach the scope and turn the tightening levers exactly the same way each time. I tighten both levers evenly to where they just start to get snug. I then tighten the rear lever that is in the dovetail to full tightness before I fully tighten the front lever. This seems to work great.

 

[Philip Glass]

@Philip Glass I agree with most of what you said, especially for a scoped 375 caliber bolt action rifle. All my newer scopes also have a red dot on the reticle. I have a Leupold VX6 2x-12 on my Whitworth Interarms Mauser. I find that 2x is low enough for lion, buffalo and other DG but I can crank it up for longer shots at PG. I have the same scope on my AHR CZ550 375 that I use for a client gun in Alaska.

On my AHR CZ550 458 Lott, I have a Leupold VX-R 2x-7 on it for use as my guiding gun for brown bear. For elephant with this same rifle, I have a Leica red dot sight that is sighted for 25 yards. I also have an “old school” Leupold VX3 1.5x-5 sighted at 25 yards for elephant. I also take all three of these optics with me to Alaska in case one fails or I have to track a wounded bear into heavy alders and decide to remove the scope to use the iron sights or the Leica red dot.

This is where I disagree with you concerning QD mounts. I have never had an issue with Talley QD rings not going back to zero or becoming loose. I finger tighten them and then use my Leatherman tool to tighten them another 1/8”. The CZ550 integral bridge and dovetail also helps prevent issues with returning to zero. I can develop different loads for the different scopes as well and easily switch the scope out for another scope/load. On my last several trips to Africa and Alaska after reattaching the scopes, I’ve only had to fire one shot each time to confirm zero with this system. I make sure to reattach the scope and turn the tightening levers exactly the same way each time. I tighten both levers evenly to where they just start to get snug. I then tighten the rear lever that is in the dovetail to full tightness before I fully tighten the front lever. This seems to work great.

Thanks Scott for letting us know how well those Talley rings work on the CZ. I am glad to know something works!

 

[Opposite Pole]

I shoot a .416 rem mag wearing a leica 1-6.3 ×24 with illuminated reticle. This set up has functioned without fail for 5 years now and has been good from 20 m to 200 m. In my opinion Leica is right up there with the best. I grew up shooting open sights but do feel that a scoped rifle gives me as a visiting client a better chance of shooting a good shot 1st time round or making a shot possible with time running out that would not be so with irons.

Earlier this year I sold my 1-6.3 Leica Magnus and bought a Swaroski Z8i 1-8x as I wanted more magnification for my 375. Optically I find them to be of the same quality. Leica seemed to have a more generous eye box. The Swarovski Z8 ballistic turret system is great if silly expensive. I bought the Leica second hand and used it in conditions varying from oppressive heat of the wet season in the Northern Territory (40C and 99% humidity) to European winters in temps well below -20C. I fired over a thousand 375HH rounds with it and never had an issue, I think they are a great scope.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Thanks Phillip! As always your excellent videos create a lot of interest. I also like your calm presentations.

I grew up using a fixed 4x Weaver on my .22 and a fixed 4x Redfield on my 30-06. Shot elk at 30 yards in dark timber and antelope at 435 yards in Wyoming. Worked fine, but then there were no such thing as variable scopes. Actually B&B had a variable the first I remember, but to zero it you adjusted the mounts and not the reticle. Very expensive!

Now I am totally spoiled and haven’t owned a rifle in maybe 50 years without a variable scope. Today almost all my scopes have an illuminated reticle. Really really really helps my old eyes acquire a target much quicker.

That said, I had a VX-6 1-6x on my 375 H&H when I took a blesbok at approximately 350 yards. It was sighted in for lion at 100 yards, so I used the magic of ranging and hold-over (old school hold-over) and it worked.

I still carry two scopes in QR mounts. 1) 1-6x and 1) 2-12x. Each sighted in differently, but tested to know where they hit. This gives me a backup as well. “Nock on wood” but they both have gone back to “0” each time I have switched.

Thanks again for your presentation!

This is an interesting take on things also: Multiple scopes with different zeros.

I like this idea on a .375 where I don't have to have a crazy hold under for up close hunting and yet I can switch to a scope with greater magnification when I have an area or game that has a necessity for a longer shot.
The principle of KISS makes this a difficult decision. I'm comfortable with different zeroes but I wouldn't want to employ different bullets also as that could get sketchy with ammunition supply and the scopes not as seamless of a backup. I would want a reference point for each at fifty yards from POA so I could correct on the fly if needed. Then this all goes on a label on the scope and a card for the gun case.

 

[Philip Glass]

Nice video Phil, even nicer trophy room. I agree with you 100% on using a high-power scope on a 375 H&H. It makes no sense to me whatsoever to limit the capabilities of the 375 H&H by using a low power scope.

Thanks

 

[Philip Glass]

Thanks Phillip! As always your excellent videos create a lot of interest. I also like your calm presentations.

I grew up using a fixed 4x Weaver on my .22 and a fixed 4x Redfield on my 30-06. Shot elk at 30 yards in dark timber and antelope at 435 yards in Wyoming. Worked fine, but then there were no such thing as variable scopes. Actually B&B had a variable the first I remember, but to zero it you adjusted the mounts and not the reticle. Very expensive!

Now I am totally spoiled and haven’t owned a rifle in maybe 50 years without a variable scope. Today almost all my scopes have an illuminated reticle. Really really really helps my old eyes acquire a target much quicker.

That said, I had a VX-6 1-6x on my 375 H&H when I took a blesbok at approximately 350 yards. It was sighted in for lion at 100 yards, so I used the magic of ranging and hold-over (old school hold-over) and it worked.

I still carry two scopes in QR mounts. 1) 1-6x and 1) 2-12x. Each sighted in differently, but tested to know where they hit. This gives me a backup as well. “Nock on wood” but they both have gone back to “0” each time I have switched.

Thanks again for your presentation!

Thanks for your kind words!

 

[Forrest Halley]

On my AHR CZ550 458 Lott, I have a Leupold VX-R 2x-7 on it for use as my guiding gun for brown bear. For elephant with this same rifle, I have a Leica red dot sight that is sighted for 25 yards. I also have an “old school” Leupold VX3 1.5x-5 sighted at 25 yards for elephant. I also take all three of these optics with me to Alaska in case one fails or I have to track a wounded bear into heavy alders and decide to remove the scope to use the iron sights or the Leica red dot.

How are you carrying all of these optics? Do you have a dedicated pack for this or a compartment prepared your pack? Maybe just stashing them in your coat? I'm curious because I like the idea of having such a capable rifle, but would like to know how others are doing it.

 

[Scott CWO]

How are you carrying all of these optics? Do you have a dedicated pack for this or a compartment prepared your pack? Maybe just stashing them in your coat? I'm curious because I like the idea of having such a capable rifle, but would like to know how others are doing it.

I don’t carry them all out in the field. One scope is in camp or the vehicle, one is mounted and the Leica Tempus red dot sight is in my backpack.

 

[Rafiki]

How are you carrying all of these optics? Do you have a dedicated pack for this or a compartment prepared your pack? Maybe just stashing them in your coat? I'm curious because I like the idea of having such a capable rifle, but would like to know how others are doing it.

I made a scope roll-up out of a piece of buffalo hide. Simple, protective and works great. It's shaped so you just fold some "wings" over the ends of the scope then roll it up and tie with leather thongs. Nice and compact, just stuff it in your pack or whatever.

 

[NTO]

Great video I agree 100% with your thinking. After many hunts and setting in many camps with PHs taking the subject they all agree a quality 3-9x40 for dangerous game. A lot of time people don’t have enough magnification to take that perfect shot which leads to a bad shot and follow up. A perfect placed shot is a lot better than with that 1-4 incase you need to follow up. To each his own but many people read to much on the internet and don’t listen to what people with real world experience have to say I am guilty my first DG hunt I had a 1.5-5 and before it was over I learned need more magnification and no more quick disconnect rings.

 

[Daisy]

Great video I agree 100% with your thinking. After many hunts and setting in many camps with PHs taking the subject they all agree a quality 3-9x40 for dangerous game. A lot of time people don’t have enough magnification to take that perfect shot which leads to a bad shot and follow up. A perfect placed shot is a lot better than with that 1-4 incase you need to follow up. To each his own but many people read to much on the internet and don’t listen to what people with real world experience have to say I am guilty my first DG hunt I had a 1.5-5 and before it was over I learned need more magnification and no more quick disconnect rings.

Great post. Philip is 20 safaris in. His advice should be heeded. I just added the March 1.5-15 on my 375 ruger after reading Philip’s post.

People love to parrot things they have heard or read. The 1-4 or 1-6 on dangerous game rifles is one of them. Another is that 6x is enough magnification for long range shots. Someone here said they can hit a fly’s ass at 200m with 6x. Man that’s just not the case for the vast majority of people.

Another is that all dangerous game work takes place at 25 yards. What about when the buffalo runs, you track, and have to make a 150 yard follow up shot before it bolts again?

 

[WAB]

I have quite a few Buffalo tallied. I use Leupold VX6 1-6x24 scopes with Talley QD rings on my .375 H&H and .458 Lott, both M70’s. I prefer the Swarovski Z6 1-6x24, and Z8 1-8x24, but you have to go to medium rings to clear the bolt. I have shot a fair bit of PG with these rigs. I have never encountered a situation requiring more magnification. My hunts are in the bush so 200 yards is a long shot.

I have never had a reliability or
Return to zero issue with Talley QD rings.

My Rigby HS in 9.3x62 has EAW pivot mounts. Again, utterly reliable with perfect return to zero.

 

[0002S]

@Philip Glass

I actually have multiples of all the scopes in your video. I agree with your take. I find the Z8i 4A-IF reticle is one of the easiest to offhand, 'snap shoot', a 8" target at 50 yards and under. IMHO the Z8i 1.7-13.3 x42 P is probably the best all around hunting scope on the market today (price not dependent). Even at ranges, at or over 400 yards, the elevation/windage turrets offer the ability to dope the shots easily. The complete versatility of this scope is amazing. The only draw back is the cost of entry.

I find the Leupold VX-6HD 2-12x42 CDS-ZL2 illum. firedot duplex to be one of the best value based alternatives to the Zeiss and Swaro offerings. I've taken the time to work up loads for the CDS custom dial system and it does work, although it's limited to one rifle/round. The firedot is not as easy on my stigmatism than the Swaro dot (that's just me).

I don't find the 1-4x or 1-6x to be that much of a hindrance at longer ranges. I have experience at shoot at longer ranges so it really isn't a bother for me. I do appreciate greater magnification in certain low light situations. An example would shooting a dark bodied animal against a dark background. This is also when premium glass comes into play.

Have you ever hunted with the Trijicon post/triangle reticle? I find this is the best offhand, 'snap shot' or moving animal reticle for me. The triangle point tip naturally comes to my aim point and the twin bar post helps me to keep the rifle level and naturally leads the animal, for me at least. I first became a fan of this type of reticle hog hunting and have since used it on other game with great success.

Most people don't, for a variety of reasons, try different scope options in the field. It wasn't until I borrowed a rifle that had premium glass, that I became a believer in the value of 'great glass'. I can't argue that more animals have been harvested over the years with scopes that cost much less than the best out there. I can argue that the job was accomplished easier in the toughest of light situations.

-jm2c

 

[0002S]

I have never had a reliability or
Return to zero issue with Talley QD rings.

^^^THIS

 

[lockingblock]

For dangerous game and anything moving or up close, I generally prefer 1x. A true 1x optic allows both eyes open and direct target focus rather than switching from target to optic to target. Schmidt and Bender makes a very good one and Vortex also dominates that sector with this: https://vortexoptics.com/vortex-razor-hd-gen-iii-1-10x24-riflescope+reticle-EBR-9~MOA

You can dial it up and the glass is on par with any high end euro Schott Glass.

Nightforce also makes a solid 1x variable…

 

[Rafiki]

I recently got a Leupold VX-6 1x6x24 Firedot. Haven't mounted it on the rifle yet because it's still being built but did play around with it a bit. I don't know what the big deal is about the scopes costing $3k or more. This thing is crystal clear from edge to edge, the controls are easy, positive click on W&E and the Firedot is sharp. Maybe it will fly apart when I finally get to shoot with it, that would be disappointing.

Ok more magnification would be nice for that +300-yard shot at a Dik-dik but really, more is not always better.