Muzzle Energy vs Recoil vs Rifle Weight for Dangerous Game

[Cheesehead]

I made some assumptions.

Which 416? I have added Rem Mag & Ruger and updated the Rigby to modern reload data so it is more relivant to what it is capable of achieving.
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Who is the masochist who owns an 8 lb 458 win mag? Why would a man do that to himself?

 

[BlueFlyer]

My question is where my rifle comes in right now!
Winchester M70 458 Win Mag at 8lbs…
Hornady 500gr at 2150ftps

 

[CZDiesel]

?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Who is the masochist who owns an 8 lb 458 win mag? Why would a man do that to himself?

Right. An eight pound 30-06 can be a handful.

 

[BlueFlyer]

No point making judgments - if someone is comfortable and confident with their rifle then happy days.
I have added a few more cartridges into the table, plus some load and weight variations.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

There is a "magic load" floating somewhere here abouts that'll get the venerable Jeff to 2400. Seems like the powder if RL17.

I'm pretty happy with 87 gr of 2000MR and ~2250 MV out of mine.

These are all low velocity cartridges except the 375H&H (to me, anything at 2400 or lower is "low velocity" ). For hunting animals at distances nearer than 100 yards, BC has no affect at all on ballistic arc, and very, very little on energy. And for that matter, 2200 vs 2400 fps on a 400 gr or heavier bullet doesn't move the needle meaningfully on energy, either. Yeah, it's a pretty big jump in energy, but no animal is going to know the difference between 3600 ft lbs and 4300 ft lbs.

400 gr bullet.
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The "Magic Load" for the 404J, as passed down from Von Gruff to @Shootist43 to me is:

84 grs H4350, Federal 215 primer, 400 gr Swift A Frame @ 2300 FPS. Under 1 MOA accuracy.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

While not as much info as @Mark A Ouellette tables, Chuck Hawks has had basic recoil table for a huge number of rifle cartridges.

Rifle Recoil Table

 

[grand veneur]

The recoil is only noticeable on the shooting range. On the field it looks different. I once fired quickly one after the other 8 shots with my rifle caliber 500 Schüler in a spezial situation without registering any recoil.

 

[HookMeUpII]

Who is the masochist who owns an 8 lb 458 win mag? Why would a man do that to himself?

Well this is timely. I have never hunted DG but just (one hour ago) pulled the trigger for the first time on my Ruger No 1 Tropical in 458WM. The purchase of the rifle was intended, at some point, for DG.

It weighs in at 9 lbs so not 8 lbs but not far off either. I'll describe it this way. It is not a violent snap. It is not a heavy push. It's a violent heavy slam. It wasn't early morning but afterwards I was awake. No need for more coffee. It got my attention. Immediately after, my shoulder was tingly and numb. I had it seated well and was prepared. I'm not a particular lightweight either. I am about 5'10" and anywhere from 195-200 lbs.

I shoot mostly 300WM, I've shot 45-70, 30-30, 30-06, 308, and a 12ga with the old school Power Shok 3" magnum slugs. The only thing I can say that was comparable was the 12ga slug. 300WM seemed like shooting 223/5.56 after. They state it's 60-63 lbs of recoil. That's with the old 458WM run of the mill. Barnes, who I have spoken to and was using their ammo, loads long and hot. Which is now the norm. I'd imagine it's mid to upper 60's with modern loads.

I had the novel idea of having it reamed out to 458 Lott. That's no longer on the table.

The popularity of the 375HH makes sense now. The sectional density, manageable recoil, semi-availability of rounds. I imagine shooting the 458WM at DG the adrenaline would kick in you. You'll know it's kicking but probably won't feel it right away. It's definitely incentive to make a good first shot. You will likely feel it later when you're sitting around the campfire.

Anyone who tells you "Oh it's not that bad" is likely at least making a little light of it.

 

[CZDiesel]

Right. An eight pound 30-06 can be a handful.

Gotta remember Ontario I’m 6’3” and 250lbs… And the fact that yes it is 8lbs now but a Leupold VX6 1-6 and Talley bases and QD rings will be mounted on it which will bring it to around 9.5lbs and a little more with the sling

 

[Tra3]

@HookMeUpII and your above post is why I’m content to keep using the .375!!

 

[HookMeUpII]

@HookMeUpII and your above post is why I’m content to keep using the .375!!

It's a venerable and capable round. I had always wanted a No 1 Tropical big bore. In the big bore varieties, only 375HH and 458WM were produced in numbers. It just happened that a 458WM came up at a price too good to be true. I really wanted a 375HH.

Of course I may just buy a 375HH one day to have if the price is right (not necessarily in a Ruger No 1). I'd still probably use the 458WM for DG one day because I am one of the OCD, stupid people who apparently like being in pain.

 

[colorado]

I have a Rem XCR II in 375 Weatherby. It weighs 7.5 lbs with scope. With 375 H&H 300g A-Frames at 2550 fps it's a pussy cat (I think the synthetic stock soaks up some recoil). With 375 Weatherby rounds 300g at 2800 fps it's a bit snappy. It's also a pussy cat compared to my 12 lb 500 Jeffery. A Ruger No. 1 in 458 Win Mag should be shootable. My recommendation is do not have it rechambered for 458 Lott!

 

[HookMeUpII]

A Ruger No. 1 in 458 Win Mag should be shootable. My recommendation is do not have it rechambered for 458 Lott!

On the latter, I agree. There is absolutely no need. As for it being shootable? Sure it is. It's just not fun. It's not a rifle I'd take the range and practice with until the time comes to really get down to it. I'm sure there's a lot of technique involved too. Working through the movements to have it shouldered properly, perfecting your stance, etc.

 

[Northern Shooter]

Really illustrates how much of a step up the 450 Rigby performs over the 458 WM and Lott.

Are there any other cartridges that fit in between the 458 Lott and 500J in terms of ballistics and felt recoil?