Muzzle Energy vs Recoil vs Rifle Weight for Dangerous Game

[Luvthunt]

Taylors KO theory has been a controversial number for awhile. Many people feel Harchers calculation for KO to be truer to reality.

 

[MS 9x56]

The only thing more speed has gotten me is a bigger scrap pile of bloodshot meat.

 

[Jim Golden]

Kinetic Energy = 1/2 MV^2
Momentum = MV

So really, they're both velocity dependent. I will agree that once you start getting up there in velocity that it does blow stuff up. I really like the .264 Winchester on deer, but it blows them up much more than a .270 Winchester does. I use a .270 Weatherby a lot and it and the .264 are about equal on blood shock. You have to be careful with shot placement or you'll lose a lot of meat.

And as said above, the old .45-70 (I have a Ruger No. 1 and a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in that) hits them harder all out of proportion to what the ballistics say. I guess it's like chucking a cinder block at them. I load a 350gr Hornady to about 1850 ft/s in the Marlin. I've only shot one deer with it, and he did run 50 yards (it was a good shot) before he dropped (the .270 Wby and .264 usually kills them before they hit the ground), but the internal carnage from that big chunk of lead was as bad if not worse than anything I'd seen of the other two. Went in through the lung area, must have hit the far shoulder and turned 90 degrees left and headed aft, hit something back there and turned 90 degrees right and tried to exit out the rear hind quarter. I recovered the bullet sticking out the hide. I'm hesistant to load the Marlin any hotter than that....sometimes the lever comes loose (might just be me doing it from recoil...). My Ruger has a defect and always has....it goes off sometimes when you shut the lever so I never shoot it. Need to send it back to Ruger....

I'll give Taylor credit for trying to factor bore diameter in there somehow. He tried to quantify something that's not easily quantified.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

The only thing more speed has gotten me is a bigger scrap pile of bloodshot meat.

I'm with you but this is about dangerous game cartridges/rifles. I guess wrecking meat is not a top priority. More important to knock a killer animal down. But it is also important that shooter not get knocked down ... with his gun. Hard to make a follow up shot laying on my back.

 

[grand veneur]

The advantage of a higher muzzle velocity by big bore cartridges is that you have a sufficient impact velocity in the range recommended by the various bullet manufacturers, and this velocity also at a greater distance than the usual one for big game shooting. Many will say; one don't shoot at longer range with a a big bore rifle. That may be true in many cases, but not always, especially when something doesn't go as planned. Having potential reserves is not uninteresting as long as you accept the stronger recoil. This is the distinct advantage of a cartridge like the 460 Weatherby Magnum compared to a cartridge 458 Lott for example. But it does not have to be 2700 fps of muzzle velocity, 2500 fps is more than enough and the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum delivers this with absolute certainty, which is not always the case with other cartridges of the 45 caliber class and the 2400 fps expected.

 

[375Ruger416]

Thanks to Mark and others for the spreadsheets. Interesting reading to be sure. ‘All things being equal’ never are. Increase one factor important to clean kills to the extreme (velocity, bullet mass, diameter, etc.) and it has adverse effects upon another or adverse secondary effects - recoil, muzzle blast, cost, unreliable or excessive bullet expansion…

As some of you know from giving me advice on another thread, I have chosen a 375 H&H in a Blaser R8. If I needed more, I think a 404J or 416 of some flavor would be a reasonable next step. Above the .458’s, recoil energy and velocity seem to be excessive for what is gained IMO.

Mark’s table is a great starting point for a survey of the range of DG cartridges. Sectional density is the only addition to the table I would like to see. I realize retained sectional velocity is more relevant for soft bullets, but SD is still a useful metric that is useful for comparison between cartridges. Kevin Robertson emphasizes it in his books and during the podcasts I’ve heard him on.