Muzzle Energy vs Recoil vs Rifle Weight for Dangerous Game

Mark A Ouellette

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Some members have shot 50 or more species of African animals with one rifle, in most cases a .375 H&H. I am not one of them. I have loved firearms since 1972 and since then, seem to have collected more than I need. Concerning dangerous game (DG) rifles chambered in .375 H&H and more powerful cartridges, I have more than I have safaris that I will take. Of my rifles of different chamberings (cartridges), for any safari I must decide on what cartridges I need or perhaps want to use for dangerous game.

The table below is a simple comparison of attributes of DG cartridges based on common factory and hand loads. Notice that the lowly .375 H&H has 4300 ft. lbs. of energy! With proper shot placement this will kill large elephants has has done so since 1911! For a 10.5 lb. rifle (total weight of loaded rifle with scope and sling, if any) the recoil generated in slightly less than 40 lbs. at a rearward velocity of 15.65 FPS. While this is twice that of a lighter 30-06, it is very manageable by most adult men and many women.

Increasing total rifle weight by one pound or slightly more than 9% also reduces the recoil by 9%. For a .375 this may not seem like much but reducing recoil of a 458 Lott or 500 Nitro by 9% will be noticeable by most shooters! Also, for rifles with the same total weight, the 470 Nitro popular in modern double rifles has twice the recoil energy as does the 375.

Decreasing bullet weight or selecting a faster burning powder that requires less weight to produce the same velocity will reduce recoil.

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Looking at the 458 Winchester we find the old standard of 5000 ft. lbs. of energy at 2150 muzzle velocity. This was what the much older 450 Nitro produced which was very effective on elephants. All but two of the listed cartridges generate near or over 5000 ft. lbs. of energy. Even the 404 Jeffery has 4700 ft. lbs. of energy. No wonder it has such a great reputation as an effective DG killer. Let us not forget that even the somewhat lower power 375 H&H and 450/400 have taken more than their fair share of elephant and other dangerous game! Power (like speed) is good, accuracy is final!

Some cartridges such as the 404 Jeffery created in 1906 and the 416 Rigby from 1911 have greater muzzle velocity and power than when created. They are now loaded with much better gunpowder than the temperature unstable Cordite of their era. As for their killing effectiveness, the bullets available today are much more effective than those of a century ago!

Don’t forget bore diameter in relation to killing effectiveness. That’s the secret to John Taylor’s rating of Knock Out Blow (or factor), bore diameter times projective weight times velocity, divided by 7000,
i.e. (.375 x 300 x 2250)/7000 = 40

The Knock Out Blow makes sense in the greater the bullet diameter, the faster transfer of energy to the target. This also explains why all other things being equal and with the same muzzle energy, a smaller .416 Rigby even with 20% less bullet weight, will penetrate further than the larger .458 Winchester.

Please use this simple table to compare muzzle energy and its inverse, recoil energy and velocity. Hopefully all will find their happy balance of a powerful, personally accurate rifle at a good carry weight for their dangerous game safari!

Note: Above information is intended for those who are trying to wrap their brains around all of this. I hope it helps!
 
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I found an error on my spreadsheet for the 404 Jeffery. Also, added are the 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs.
Please use this one;

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Doing my taxes (late) b/c biden minions asked for another money grab 3 weeks prior to tax day (like the last couple years!) F'n Bastards. IF you just scan/post tables from Kevin Robertson's books, it'll show a much more expansive list of calibers not shown (that many people enjoy,) and you can get on with your busy day! ;) That's not a very long list and not all ammo is the same. Not faulting. Just pointing out. Same reason the USA is F'd today. ;) Many more 416s, 500s, et. al. It's NOT comprehensive. It's what the typical Ron Spoonmerrrr would present in a 550 word article for his paycheck! ;) In-fact, audacious of me to say LOL but i'd say a LOT of cartridges have been omitted on-purpose. ;) The reason we have the dem ass-faces today. 'All about $$$.
 
Exhibit A: ANY 416 can do 2,450 fps+. FACT. Some take 20-30 gr less powder. There are MANY 500s and they are not all equal. That's a short list. Do your research and get back to those who need to know. 470 capstick et. al. Sooo many left out, and why??
 
Looking at the tables I bet there is at least one thinking "gee, I wish my H&H weighed 10.5 lbs @ 2,550 fps...
 
Nice work Mark - thanks for the post! Great discussion points.

Shooterscalculator can help with these calculations for everyone's personal rifle.

Gotta love the light recoil from the 375, but it is good to do some 'figgerin' to understand how bullet/powder/rifle weights affect recoil.
 
It's fun to look at the tables. But you need to shoot them before you decide what they really feel like. The 505 Gibbs I shot was a lot of fun! Don't let the tables scare you off! Having said that, I am impressed by the data next to the 404 J. You can see why it was so popular.
 
Nice work Mark. I think the loading that led to the 404J having a relatively low recoil reputation was closer to the 450/400 at 2150 fps. Most all these cases can do more if you load them hot, which most often isn’t needed or useful.
 
I never selected a rifle based on the criteria of these lists. Moreover, except the 375 H&H Magnum that I used with a borrowed rifle in two cases, none of the cartridges I use regularly for hunting big game are on it.

If you have a rifle built because you are interested in a cartridge and if this rifle also has to visually suit your taste, eventually not always this has the optimal criteria for a big bore rifle. For example, my rifle caliber 12,7x70 Schüler, that I had built in the 1990s, weighs around 10.5 lbs with scope and that's why no one other than me has ever fired more than one shot with it. Despite it, I like it and will continue hunting with it.
 
I think the concensus now is 404 Jeffery was developed in 1905.

The one I built weighs right at ten pounds loaded with four cartridges. The recoil may be  relatively modest but still all I can handle ... and I'm no lightweight. If this gun will kill an elephant, I can see absolutely no reason to own anything larger. It's more than enough gun for me.
 
@C.W. Richter - the list does not *really* need to be expanded with various other 416's, 450's etc. This is just math. If you know the calibre, bullet weight and muzzle velocity, then TKO and muzzle energy can be calculated. If you also know the weight of the powder charge, and the weight of the rifle, then recoil numbers can also be calculated. If you also know the ballistic coefficient of the bullet, then you can figure out downrange energy, bullet drop etc at various distances. The only reason to make a list that differentiates the 416 Rem, 416 Rigby, 416 Taylor etc, is if you're interested in the chamber pressures.

But you are touching on an interesting point, and that is how much the recoil can vary for a single cartridge when you change the bullet weight or powder charge.

In my 404, there is a noticeable difference in perceived recoil when loading 72gn of a faster powder, rather than going for 87gn of a slower one, for the same 400gn bullet. The velocities are not exactly the same, but pretty close.

But it is still nice to have it compiled in a list for 'typical' loads per cartridge. So thank you for that @Mark A Ouellette .
 
Mark was merely giving us examples of what he is discussing. Do we really need to have every possible combination posted for each caliber, grains of powder, type of powder, ambient temperature.

Many have a perception of recoil. This gives quantified numbers to that.

I appreciate the topic.

My felt recoil is more impacted by velocity. And thin lightweight stocks. I dislike a sharp kick.
But my .505 Gibbs with a 600 grain bullet does not produce an unpleasant recoil. It’s built with the proper big bore stock.

Thanks for the info Mark
 
Reading with interest, even though I’m not likely to add anything larger to my current 375H&H.

Always enjoyed looking into the ballistics of these big boys and comparing them. Appreciate the graph @Mark A Ouellette.
 
Is the 2nd table correct when it lists the 404Jeffery and 416Rigby as having identical ballistics? A 400grn @ 2400FPS, I always thought the 416 Rigby had 150fps advantage on the 404 Jeffery. Don't own either, so I could be wrong.
 
Is the 2nd table correct when it lists the 404Jeffery and 416Rigby as having identical ballistics? A 400grn @ 2400FPS, I always thought the 416 Rigby had 150fps advantage on the 404 Jeffery. Don't own either, so I could be wrong.
There is a "magic load" floating somewhere here abouts that'll get the venerable Jeff to 2400. Seems like the powder if RL17.

I'm pretty happy with 87 gr of 2000MR and ~2250 MV out of mine.

These are all low velocity cartridges except the 375H&H (to me, anything at 2400 or lower is "low velocity" ). For hunting animals at distances nearer than 100 yards, BC has no affect at all on ballistic arc, and very, very little on energy. And for that matter, 2200 vs 2400 fps on a 400 gr or heavier bullet doesn't move the needle meaningfully on energy, either. Yeah, it's a pretty big jump in energy, but no animal is going to know the difference between 3600 ft lbs and 4300 ft lbs.

400 gr bullet.
1722423657072.png


1722423686396.png
 
My felt recoil is more impacted by velocity. And thin lightweight stocks. I dislike a sharp kick.
But my .505 Gibbs with a 600 grain bullet does not produce an unpleasant recoil. It’s built with the proper big bore stock.
Proper fitting of a rifle becomes more and more important as the caliber grows. Anyone can get away with a poor fitting 22lr, but when it comes to big bores…not so much. Unfortunately this is often overlooked when purchasing something like a 458LOTT or 470NE.

I very much agree with @Altitude sickness about stock shape on big bores. A wide and softer recoil pad will spread the force out over a larger area reducing felt recoil.
 
Thank you for this thread Mark. I have the feeling this is going to be a lively discussion.
 
Exhibit A: ANY 416 can do 2,450 fps+. FACT. Some take 20-30 gr less powder. There are MANY 500s and they are not all equal. That's a short list. Do your research and get back to those who need to know. 470 capstick et. al. Sooo many left out, and why??
Hmmm, obviouly you could have written a more comprehensive article for our members who do not know as much as you. Please provide links to the threads you've started that share knowledge to help other members.

Some members have shot 50 or more species of African animals....

The table below is a simple comparison of attributes of DG cartridges based on common factory and hand loads...

Please use this simple table to compare muzzle energy and its inverse, recoil energy and velocity. Hopefully all will find their happy balance of a powerful, personally accurate rifle at a good carry weight for their dangerous game safari!

Note: Above information is intended for those who are trying to wrap their brains around all of this. I hope it helps!
Had you read this in good spirit, you may have gleamed that the information was intended for those that DO NOT understand it all. I presented a simple comparison that many found or will find helpful.

Now, as you stated, all the information is there in the works of Dr. Roberson, JohnTaylor, Pierre an der Walt and so on. Believe it or not, some of our members are not students of ballistics. Or maybe, they don't have a library of ballistics books. Some people may even find these type books to be as good as sleeping pills. Me, I love reading them!
1722427171733.jpeg


The point is that others may think differently than me or those who take grave exception of the British for using the term "water table" to describe the flats of an action. It is for them that I spent a hour or two compiling information into a Ron Spomer-type article. Yeah, I think he is pretty basic and if I had a tiny ego, I might be insulted.

Note: When forced to participate in Myers-Briggs evaluations, I was way over to one side of the scale, far from others. I can't help it if everyone else is weird! :) As I mature I understand the charactures of Mr. Spock of STAR TREK and Sheldon Cooper of THE BIG BANG THEORY...

The above stated, if you desire to pay me my hourly rate or perhaps a flat rate, I will comprise a more indepth article that includes 50 or more cartridges in a table. How many words would you like? :)

Otherwise, I will accept the thanks via likes, PMs, phone calls, and face to face meetings when members that I respect tell me, "You are always helpful on the forum".

Reference: My energy and recoil figures are from use of: https://shooterscalculator.com/
 

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