Mannlicher-Schoenauer in 9,3x64

[HWL]

Maybe I derailed this thread a bit....lets go back to MS rifles...I have 2 myself, one in 6,5x54MS and a 1910 in 9,57x57MS..lovely rifles....

No problem, a forum lives from the experiences of its members and from the discussion about this.

Your little collection is the classic pre war african combination - pictures would be great!



HWL

 

[Pondoro]

HWL...some pics of my 6,5x54MS in my media section..

 

[ZG47]

A classic example of where a caliber is downloaded in the USA is the 8x57JS . The Mauser 8x57I was designed by the Germans with a .318" bore shooting a 157 gn spitzer bullet...and later through the war changed it to a .323"bore and 197 gn bullet..to prevent shooters firing a .323 " bullet in a .318" bore this caliber was downloaded while here in Africa you can load it much hotter ...shooting heavy bullets at higher velocities is what the 8x57JS likes...

Gert
The rifling dimensions were changed in July 1896, by increasing the groove depth, 1888 rifles with those deeper grooves having a large Z marked on the receiver. A new bullet, with doubled jacket thickness was designed to suit the Z rifling. When the new ammunition was introduced, teams of armourers were sent around Prussia, Bavaria, etc to modify the chambers (neck, throat and leade) of rifles whose barrels had been originally rifled to Z dimensions, to accept the new ammunition.
Confusion mainly seems to have come from lazy gun writers who do not carry out genuine research and/or cannot think logically AND comparison of cheaper 1920s export sporting Mausers with service rifles.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

ZG47, thank you very much this info is much appreciated. Will it be possible to forward me the source in regards to these changes made to the 8mm Mauser barrels ..as well as how the gunsmiths done this deepening of the grooves? Please explain the measurements of the Z- dimensions???? Here in South Africa few people really know what happened /how it happens ....
I would appreciate knowing more in this regards since I really like the Mauser history...I was lucky enough to get hold of a 11mm Mauser....

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Maybe I derailed this thread a bit....lets go back to MS rifles...I have 2 myself, one in 6,5x54MS and a 1910 in 9,57x57MS..lovely rifles....

He, he, he I have the same problem Pondoro, usually I do not derail a thread a bit..but with some huge strides..go big or go home...

 

[ZG47]

ZG47, thank you very much this info is much appreciated. Will it be possible to forward me the source in regards to these changes made to the 8mm Mauser barrels ..as well as how the gunsmiths done this deepening of the grooves? Please explain the measurements of the Z- dimensions???? Here in South Africa few people really know what happened /how it happens ....
I would appreciate knowing more in this regards since I really like the Mauser history...I was lucky enough to get hold of a 11mm Mauser....

No problem. Will send you an email later, as to how I located the truth of the matter, my understanding of the story and list of references.

 

[geoff rath]

It seems we have the basis for a 9.3X64 enthusiasts group here.....I just wish Hornady or someone would make some good brass for it, quality factor rifle will follow. Luckily, here in Australia, we have Bertram for brass, and Woodleigh for bullets. May be a bit pricey and hard-to-get in the US....

 

[HWL]

Hi geoff...

May be the "Mannlicher-Schoenauer" is a bit irritating for the friends of the 9,3x64.

But to found a "9,3x64 Brenneke enthusiast group" would be a good idea.

Or "9,3x64 goes Africa"....will fit perfect to this forum.

Just do it.... you will have a lot of followers.


HWL

 

[geoff rath]

Mannlicher Schoenauer just gets me nostalgic; aesthetic, elegant rifles (except for the garish white line spacer thing) that are beyond my "pay scale". An ideal African hunt would involve an extended trip, with MS (or Mauser) rifles, in good European calibers; 6.5 of some sort, maybe a 7X57 or a 7X64. Step up to 9.3X64 (preferably), then 12.7X70/500 Jeffery. A nice 12 or 20 gauge to finish.
Can you imagine such a Safari??? Take it over several weeks ....

 

[ZG47]

@Gert Odendaal Email sent. Now you have the chance to be the most boring man in town or at least your gunsmith friend’s workshop, for the next few days! Also, don’t be too surprised if your friend already knew the engineering details but keeps silent because he has better things to do, like earning money, than pointing out the bleeding obvious!

 

[HWL]

Mannlicher Schoenauer just gets me nostalgic; aesthetic, elegant rifles (except for the garish white line spacer thing) that are beyond my "pay scale". An ideal African hunt would involve an extended trip, with MS (or Mauser) rifles, in good European calibers; 6.5 of some sort, maybe a 7X57 or a 7X64. Step up to 9.3X64 (preferably), then 12.7X70/500 Jeffery. A nice 12 or 20 gauge to finish.
Can you imagine such a Safari??? Take it over several weeks ....

I collect Mannlicher-Schoenauers since years, and I am completely with you in this matter.

I was hunting in Africa, once I spent 3 month down there.

But never ever with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

My last tip was with a M98 in .404, a M98 in .300 Win-Mag and a Drilling in .222 Rem and 20/70,20/70 for all the small stuff.

But now I am seriously thinking about a "Mannlicher-Schoenauer only" trip.

5,6x57, 7x57 and 9,3x64 or someting like this would be a happy combination.


HWL

 

[HWL]

Mannlicher Schoenauer just gets me nostalgic; aesthetic, elegant rifles (except for the garish white line spacer thing) that are beyond my "pay scale". An ideal African hunt would involve an extended trip, with MS (or Mauser) rifles, in good European calibers; 6.5 of some sort, maybe a 7X57 or a 7X64. Step up to 9.3X64 (preferably), then 12.7X70/500 Jeffery. A nice 12 or 20 gauge to finish.
Can you imagine such a Safari??? Take it over several weeks ....

....you will have more opportunitys with Mauser M98, because they come in every caliber you can imagine.

Mannlicher-Schoenauer in classic african calibers ar quite rare...

Sometimes a 9,3x62 comes around, but every thing bigger is unusual and expensive...


HWL

 

[geoff rath]

I collect Mannlicher-Schoenauers since years, and I am completely with you in this matter.

I was hunting in Africa, once I spent 3 month down there.

But never ever with a Mannlicher-Schoenauer.

My last tip was with a M98 in .404, a M98 in .300 Win-Mag and a Drilling in .222 Rem and 20/70,20/70 for all the small stuff.

But now I am seriously thinking about a "Mannlicher-Schoenauer only" trip.

5,6x57, 7x57 and 9,3x64 or someting like this would be a happy combination.


HWL

Near perfect. Enjoy yourself ....

 

[Gert Odendaal]

@Gert Odendaal Email sent. Now you have the chance to be the most boring man in town or at least your gunsmith friend’s workshop, for the next few days! Also, don’t be too surprised if your friend already knew the engineering details but keeps silent because he has better things to do, like earning money, than pointing out the bleeding obvious!

ZG47, thank you very much..you will be surprise of how many people /gun nuts/hunters do not know about the difference in the 8x57 caliber or its history..

 

[geoff rath]

I've heard it expressed as 7.9X57, which "morphed" into the 8X57 ....

 

[ZG47]

I've heard it expressed as 7.9X57, which "morphed" into the 8X57 ....

The 7.92x57 I (I for Infanterie) which was used in the original barrels and the Z barrels, made from late July 1896 onwards, is also known as the 8x57 I and sometimes marked on sported barrels as 8x57. The 7.92x57 IS, introduced after 1900, carries the civilian designation 8.2x57 IS (sometimes 8.2x57 JS when packaged in Germany).
Hornady only use the 8.2x57 reference for their ammo, partly to allow full ballistics and partly, I would imagine, because SAAMI dimensions for the case length are a tad short.
You learn, in the army, to use exact names and definitions for munitions and explosives. Civilian gun writers tend to be irresponsible in such matters.

 

[geoff rath]

Thanks, ZG47, I had forgotten the "I", "J' and "S" suffixes those precise Germanic folk applied . Appreciate the reminder.....

 

[HWL]

This is how 9,3x64 cases look like!!!

62 from my friends who checked there case piles and 11 from my own reserve...

Now reloading gets serious...

For a iron sights DG rifle, a heavy bullet.... 300 or 320 grain?

Is it a DG rifle?


HWL

 

[geoff rath]

9.3X64 for D/G? It would depend on what my PH/Outfitter agreed to.... As for heavies (here I go again!) Woodleigh run 320 Powerpoints, Roundnose, and 286 Hydro..... Load to their recommended IMPACT velocities an all should be well. A few Z A blokes I have spoken to say it would be acceptable on M'bogo.... Rhino, and the new Hornady solids should be O K. They tell me:: Use the best bullet you can get, an put them in the right place....

 

[bruce moulds]

300 gn swift aframes will minimize the need for solids.
they would be a much better bullet than the heavy woodleigh, and shoot flatter as well.
drive them hard.
bruce.