Live Animal Relocation to USA

[3chunter]

How bout we stop importing non native species unless it’s for agriculture to feed our people? Let our native species thrive and spread as they like and can. This is some first world hobbyist nonsense. I remember listening to Kevin Robertson saying how awesome it was to have Cape buffalo in Texas. Probably doesn’t hurt that that’s his job now.. Utter poppycock says I. Most of us are usually up in arms when something like this happens in Africa but not so here. How about a little objectivity.

I am just talking about game animals. It’s not like in southeast we have that many game species. We don’t. Deer, turkey, rabbit. No more quail so there’s that. Not sure what it could hurt.

 

[JimP]

If you have a 10,000 or more acres surrounded by a 10 foot tall fence I'd say by all means import some.

But don't forget about all the permits and variances that you'll need along dealing with the USFW and possibly the USDA

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I am just talking about game animals. It’s not like in southeast we have that many game species. We don’t. Deer, turkey, rabbit. No more quail so there’s that. Not sure what it could hurt.

I empathize since I’m in the same boat in Oklahoma. I just don’t think more hunting opportunities justify it given the bigger picture. It really does pain me to say that but it is what it is.

 

[Sabre]

I wonder what the motivation would be for African Game Farmers to take part in that would be as well. If for instance, all the animals of Africa became much more common and plentiful to hunt in the states, then cost would go down for them in the states. There then wouldn't be nearly as much of an incentive for people to go over to Africa and hunt them as much.

Just like with most things, given enough money, someone will participate. But I'd think the African government and game farms especially would try to slow the roll on lots of live animal relocation to the US.

 

[Red Leg]

Ask the landowners in Argentina what the introduced red deer did to the native deer population. I am not against introduction of non-native species in a controlled area, but things can happen. Lots of available species already here to hunt.

What native deer population in Argentina has been affected?

 

[Red Leg]

I wonder what the motivation would be for African Game Farmers to take part in that would be as well. If for instance, all the animals of Africa became much more common and plentiful to hunt in the states, then cost would go down for them in the states. There then wouldn't be nearly as much of an incentive for people to go over to Africa and hunt them as much.

Just like with most things, given enough money, someone will participate. But I'd think the African government and game farms especially would try to slow the roll on lots of live animal relocation to the US.

Fortunately most of us hunt Africa for the experience rather than to collect.

 

[JimP]

I wonder what the motivation would be for African Game Farmers to take part in that would be as well. If for instance, all the animals of Africa became much more common and plentiful to hunt in the states, then cost would go down for them in the states. There then wouldn't be nearly as much of an incentive for people to go over to Africa and hunt them as much.

Just like with most things, given enough money, someone will participate. But I'd think the African government and game farms especially would try to slow the roll on lots of live animal relocation to the US.

All that you need to do is look at the cost of hunting some of the African animals in Texas compared to Africa. You can hunt a dozen animals in Africa for what it cost for a single animal in Texas.

I missed out on a warthog on my first safari, and when I heard that there's a ranch in Texas that you can hunt them on I checked it out. The cost is around $10,000 for just one. I believe that you can do a cull hunt in Africa for half that and shoot quite a few of them

 

[K-man]

What native deer population in Argentina has been affected?

The andean deer is critically endangered now. The common accepted cause is it's main food source is also favored by the red deer and the red is a more aggressive species. Less than 500 remain according to some sources. Most of the locals have never seen one.

 

[mark-hunter]

What native deer population in Argentina has been affected?

Marsh deer.

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

Established in 1964, the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species has evolved to become the world’s most comprehensive information source on the global conservation status of animal, fungi and plant species.

www.iucnredlist.org

 

[Sabre]

Fortunately most of us hunt Africa for the experience rather than to collect.

All that you need to do is look at the cost of hunting some of the African animals in Texas compared to Africa. You can hunt a dozen animals in Africa for what it cost for a single animal in Texas.

I missed out on a warthog on my first safari, and when I heard that there's a ranch in Texas that you can hunt them on I checked it out. The cost is around $10,000 for just one. I believe that you can do a cull hunt in Africa for half that and shoot quite a few of them

I agree with both of you, but what I am saying is simple supply and demand. If the supply increases dramatically stateside, the cost would go down stateside, and the demand for traveling to Africa to hunt would decrease as well.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Why, why, why? I have to ask
I would not want white tail, muskox, wolvesor bears here
It takes away theallure and interest to travel to far away lands to see something new and different

 

[HankBuck]

With all this news I have been seeing in SA about ANC and expropriation. Who knows what will happen over there long term. Why can’t the USA with SA assistance start relocating African Animals here in the USA? I know Texas has some from back in the day but i would think it would be great for us to change whatever laws in our way to make relocation possible here. I have some land I could easily put a fence on.
What animals would thrive here versus what animals would have a tough time biologically speaking?
This is just something I have pondered on.

@3chunter - as long as they are in a cage or fenced area (and clear from disease) it wouldn’t bother me….but I’d also have Zero interest in shooting one…reminds me too much of Great Adventure).

 

[Challer]

I would think that there would be a risk starting another "invasive specie." A hundred years ago no one would have thought that wild hogs would become the problem that they are.

Anyone with any experience with would know straight off about feral pigs. Even 500 years ago. Settlers brought them to the us and released them knowing the would hog wild and feed the settlers.

 

[HankBuck]

I am just talking about game animals. It’s not like in southeast we have that many game species. We don’t. Deer, turkey, rabbit. No more quail so there’s that. Not sure what it could hurt.

@3chunter - your observation on the “Quail” is the very reason that introducing ANY invasive species involves risk. In just the last 30 to 50 years the US has lost 95% of it’s Native Bobwhite Quail population on the East Coast and one “theory” is a virus introduced by releasing PEN RAISED quail & pheasant — the fact that they really aren’t certain is cause for concern. Native Ruffed Grouse populations have declined significantly also - NJ closed the Grouse season 3 years ago, closed quail season 6 years ago and the wild pheasant that I saw and hunted in the 1970s-early 80s also GONE. It’s NOT related to habitat - “something” more subtle has caused the decline>
Also, previously successful introduction of Pheasants is now FAILING - Kansas pheasant population down over 80% and the Wild pheasant that were plentiful in NJ, PA, NY, VA and other States into the 1990s - is also Gone or greatly reduced. Today, if you want to hunt wild bobwhite quail - Texas & Mexico is the last good area and maybe parts of Oklahoma. For pheasant - South Dakota has the largest population and even there many places “release” birds onto their hunting operations and “claim” they do well.
With so many great Native animals and birds to hunt in America, I’m more interested in protecting them or increasing their populations than “introducing” Non native species. If someone wants to keep a pet, or fenced population - I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they don’t ever mix with wild animals and cannot spread disease etc.. Just my opinion.

 

[sgt_zim]

I would think that there would be a risk starting another "invasive specie." A hundred years ago no one would have thought that wild hogs would become the problem that they are.

Classic swine fever (hog cholera) kept feral hog populations in check until about 40 or 45 years ago - mortality rate for some strains is close enough to 100% that it might as well be. The only pathogen I can think of that would be similar for hooved animals is rinderpest.

And hogs occupy a relatively unique position as far as population growth - a sow becomes fertile before she is 1 year old, and can have a litter of piglets every 5 months or so. Gestation is 3 months, 3 weeks, and 3 days long.

The only thing comparable to that (that I know of) in the world of ruminants is axis deer, but they usually only have 1 offspring at a time, occasionally twins. Gestation is about 7 months.

 

[sgt_zim]

@3chunter - your observation on the “Quail” is the very reason that introducing ANY invasive species involves risk. In just the last 30 to 50 years the US has lost 95% of it’s Native Bobwhite Quail population on the East Coast and one “theory” is a virus introduced by releasing PEN RAISED quail & pheasant — the fact that they really aren’t certain is cause for concern. Native Ruffed Grouse populations have declined significantly also - NJ closed the Grouse season 3 years ago, closed quail season 6 years ago and the wild pheasant that I saw and hunted in the 1970s-early 80s also GONE. It’s NOT related to habitat - “something” more subtle has caused the decline>
Also, previously successful introduction of Pheasants is now FAILING - Kansas pheasant population down over 80% and Wild pheasant mostly in NJ, PA, NY, VA and other States that had healthy wild populations into the 1990s.
With so many great Native animals and birds to Hut in America, I’m more interested in protecting them or increasing their populations than “introducing” Non native species. If someone wants to keep a pet, or fenced population - I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they don’t ever mix with wild animals and cannot spread disease etc.. Just my opinion.

Ring neck pheasants aren't native to North America. I believe they were originally imported from Chyna in the late 19th century.

 

[HankBuck]

Ring neck pheasants aren't native to North America. I believe they were originally imported from Chyna in the late 19th century.

@sgt_zim - yes well aware of that and it was one of the most successful introductions of a Non native species Ever - they thrived for 80 years and appeared to be No negative impact to native species. Since the 1930s when hunting seasons were opened - the Pheasant still thrived and did well in a variety of climates from Montana down to Oklahoma, KS, SD, ND, NY, NJ, VA, PA, - they lived on farm lands and even salt marshes, in snow and heat—— but Now they are completely gone from many States and efforts to “reintroduce” have failed. I mentioned them as just an example of how little we might understand (or be able to control) regarding Non native species….maybe they were a poor example.

 

[BourbonTrail]

@3chunter - your observation on the “Quail” is the very reason that introducing ANY invasive species involves risk. In just the last 30 to 50 years the US has lost 95% of it’s Native Bobwhite Quail population on the East Coast and one “theory” is a virus introduced by releasing PEN RAISED quail & pheasant — the fact that they really aren’t certain is cause for concern. Native Ruffed Grouse populations have declined significantly also - NJ closed the Grouse season 3 years ago, closed quail season 6 years ago and the wild pheasant that I saw and hunted in the 1970s-early 80s also GONE. It’s NOT related to habitat - “something” more subtle has caused the decline>
Also, previously successful introduction of Pheasants is now FAILING - Kansas pheasant population down over 80% and the Wild pheasant that were plentiful in NJ, PA, NY, VA and other States into the 1990s - is also Gone or greatly reduced. Today, if you want to hunt wild bobwhite quail - Texas & Mexico is the last good area and maybe parts of Oklahoma. For pheasant - South Dakota has the largest population and even there many places “release” birds onto their hunting operations and “claim” they do well.
With so many great Native animals and birds to hunt in America, I’m more interested in protecting them or increasing their populations than “introducing” Non native species. If someone wants to keep a pet, or fenced population - I don’t have a problem with that, as long as they don’t ever mix with wild animals and cannot spread disease etc.. Just my opinion.

According to some game warden and biologist friends of my late grandfather, the reason for the reduction in quail is the increase in well manicured lawns and grazed fields which reduces the tall native meadows and brambles they need to hide from predators. Also, the increase in feral cats, native foxes, and coyotes in recent years hasn’t helped.

Actually in Kentucky, increasing native meadows has been a big push from the KYDFW.

 

[wildwilderness]

According to some game warden and biologist friends of my late grandfather, the reason for the reduction in quail is the increase in well manicured lawns and grazed fields which reduces the tall native meadows and brambles they need to hide from predators. Also, the increase in feral cats, native foxes, and coyotes in recent years hasn’t helped.

Actually in Kentucky, increasing native meadows has been a big push from the KYDFW.

Coyotes not so much- they actually help keep raccoons, skunks and opossums down which do more damage to nesting ground birds

 

[HankBuck]

According to some game warden and biologist friends of my late grandfather, the reason for the reduction in quail is the increase in well manicured lawns and grazed fields which reduces the tall native meadows and brambles they need to hide from predators. Also, the increase in feral cats, native foxes, and coyotes in recent years hasn’t helped.

Actually in Kentucky, increasing native meadows has been a big push from the KYDFW.

@BourbonTrail - I’ve heard those comment too but most have been proven incorrect (even though some logic is there). The reason is that even in areas where the landscape has Never “changed” ie: large parks and Non hunting areas that use to hold quail & pheasant but Now do NOT? Salt water marshes that are the same today as 100 years ago - except the pheasant aren’t there. Also, entire States and some very large tracts of land (1000s of acres) have been managed for perfect habitat, captured “wild quail & pleasant” reintroduced AND predators like fox, skunk, raccoon heavily trapped & controlled - and still they can’t get a population started or self sustaining. Compared to the 1950s & 60s when Nothing was done but somehow the birds flourished. It is a complex problem and I am amazed no one has a solution - because there is desire and big $$ to be made if this problem could be resolved.
A recent exception is the reintroduction of Wild Turkey to many States - New Jersey had Zero Wild turkey for over 150 years up until 1990 when some were live trapped in PA and released —- in 10 years they opened a Turkey season and now there birds thrive …but previous native Quail and ruffed Grouse are gone or close to it and no one can figure out why or correct it??