Lion hunting SA

[Wiley64]

Could anyone comment on how wild lion populations are doing/trending? Just out of curiosity

 

[spike.t]

I think it's a general remark Mike.

At the moment I honestly can't be bothered trying to reply for some reason.....

 

[BRICKBURN]

As an aside, and no one can possibly disagree with this tangent given the constant sideways meanderings of this bloody thread.

If you look up Pheasant in the UK. The third Google listing is an Anti organization.

Most outfits in the UK refer to the practice as "shooting" not hunting. Fair enough.

"Managed or Ranch" is the same type of marketing code as "Driven Game Day"


What is the difference between Pheasants and Lions in this regard - Nada, Nothing, Zero.
What is the difference? Anthropomorphism?
Mammalian vs Avian prejudice?

Truly domesticate the Lions and keep them in cages to supply a product that some human finds desirable. We do it with: Chickens, Turkeys, Cows, Dogs, cats, Mink, Horses, etc.

Cute, right?

Two different farms:

The products

The methods:

Lion in a cage at a Slaughter house

Stolen photo from an Anti Expose site.

Baited hunt?


An earlier characterization and generalization of "Lion SA" was a description of a "modified farming technique". In fact, as @One Day... noted the vast majority of species in are managed in some fashion. Some behind a fence others without.


Anti poaching is management for a specific purpose, inside or outside a fence. Is it all done for charity?

Every last critter needs water in "wild" Africa. Create a water point and every critter in the area will show up. You do not need a fence. They will remain in proximity. Wait until the driest months of the year when all natural sources are depleted and you "have fish in a barrel" period.
Go the the water point and track it from there.

Drilling all those water wells, Philanthropy?

The purpose is to maintain profit.
No critters, no hunting, no money. "If it pays it stays" ...... or it gets eaten.



In the end it is all a modified farming technique. Fenced or not.

Elephant being butchered in Zimbabwe. (They just skipped the SPAR)

Here is some content from the PETA indoctrination website for "kids". Feel free to argue these points at will.

7 REASONS WHY HUNTING IS WRONG​

1. It causes a lot of suffering and death.​

2. Like humans, animals want to live. They also love and feel pain.​

3. It can lead to violence against humans.​

4. Animals don’t always die right after they’re shot.​

5. It tears animal families apart.​

6. Some hunters say that hunting “keeps nature in balance,” but that’s not true.​

7. There are lots of hunting accidents.​

Do the arguments feel familiar? The style?



Does that make it good or bad? (Given the black and white theme of this thread)
For alternate but similar rambling entertainment please visit: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/hello-from-bwana-moja-africa-is-not-the-dark-continent.70564/

The entertainment factor is over for me now.
Have a Happy New Year. Don't drink and keyboard.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Could anyone comment on how wild lion populations are doing/trending? Just out of curiosity

Depends on the country.

 

[Daisy]

We can't even tolerate a Cow Moose sitting on someones lawn. General Panic sets in when a juvenile Cougar roams down a river basin into the city.

Appropriate space is certainly a driving issue for maintaining an intact ecosystem that could include large carnivores.

View attachment 577360

View attachment 577362
View attachment 577364

That was my sense too. Hunting and even conservation takes second fiddle to peoples lives and livelihood. People there don’t want a bunch of free range lions anywhere near where they live and work.

Same goes for a big hunting ranch. We saw some leopard tracks a couple of times when hunting on the 30k acres while I was in SA. The PH got so worked up. They would kill it on the spot. They play havoc on all the work and money they have set up to support their families.

Imagine if we released a bunch of wild wolves or cougars around New York City. Hey, they was their native habitat, we should repopulate them. Of course people wouldn’t do that. Why do we think people of SA or any African country would want any different. Sure, Kruger is fine, but even then they roam away and cause havoc.

I realize this is a hunting forum. But the views seem to be myopic at times, mine included.

 

[Rare Breed]

Just maybe they have enough sense not to alienate possible future clients but I do like to hear their insight when they do chime in. Really like to see what @spike.t from Zambia says and Lon from Zimbabwe days but I don’t remember his outfit though.

Tokoloshe Safaris….I am hunting with Lon in April

 

[mark-hunter]

Could anyone comment on how wild lion populations are doing/trending? Just out of curiosity

Population is in decline, and they live in several scattered pockets on African continent. Present numbers around 20.000 in the wild.
They lost more then half of their natural range. I remember one research, defining there was 40.000 lions in Africa by the beginning of XX century, and now around 20.000.
IUCN red list is one source, of present status, and another more detailed research below. This research claims population decline from 92.000 down to 20.000 since 1970

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

Established in 1964, the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species has evolved to become the world’s most comprehensive information source on the global conservation status of animal, fungi and plant species.

www.iucnredlist.org

(check the list of countries where extint)

Vanishing lions – a 75% decline in Africa’s iconic predators in just five decades - Africa Geographic

Africa's lions are disappearing. New research shows that lion populations across the continent have declined by 75% in just five decades

africageographic.com

 

[TTundra]

To lighten the mood on the topic...may need to watch this one tonight. Nice and funny feel good flick.

 

[Flewis]

To lighten the mood on the topic...may need to watch this one tonight. Nice and funny feel good flick.

View attachment 577423

That is one great movie!

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Just maybe they have enough sense not to alienate possible future clients but I do like to hear their insight when they do chime in. Really like to see what @spike.t from Zambia says and Lon from Zimbabwe days but I don’t remember his outfit though.

Hi Hunt Anything,

You are 100% right if a PH or outfitter take a stance on even a minor subject you are going to get what is all but hate mail, usually ending with something like “I will certainly scratch you off of my list of companies I would ever hunt with”, ok I can accept that. I know what services we provide and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I do like to think that when we/I lose a hunter over a opinion I have stated that he/she will replaced with someone who wants a genuine African experience no more no less.

My wife a Zimbabwe PH would post on this forum and I am sure she would not piss people off. The problem is according to AH forum only one owner may post as a sponsor. I mentioned she would be allowed to post as a agent for the company. Then the fight started!

By the way my distain for Jane Fonda has no bounds. Of course this will probably piss someone off.

Lon

 

[mark-hunter]

Jane Fonda?
I couldnt care less.

 

[sureshot375]

I am working on putting together a fight at the SCI show in Nashville this year to settle this issue once and for all. I’m currently looking for a venue. I had originally thought about an mma style cage match, but I’m worried the cage would give the CBL hunters an advantage. Maybe a boxing ring would be more fair to everyone.

I’ll be selling tickets to anyone who wants to be a spectator. All proceeds will be going to a worthy conservation organization, the Save the Sureshot375 Foundation. If Mrs. Sureshot finds out how much I’ve spent on hunting and guns, extinction of this wild and magnificent predator could be eminent.

 

[ACE (in CT)]

Had to post this

 

[375Fox]

Population is in decline, and they live in several scattered pockets on African continent. Present numbers around 20.000 in the wild.
They lost more then half of their natural range. I remember one research, defining there was 40.000 lions in Africa by the beginning of XX century, and now around 20.000.
IUCN red list is one source, of present status, and another more detailed research below. This research claims population decline from 92.000 down to 20.000 since 1970

The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species

Established in 1964, the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species has evolved to become the world’s most comprehensive information source on the global conservation status of animal, fungi and plant species.

www.iucnredlist.org

(check the list of countries where extint)

Vanishing lions – a 75% decline in Africa’s iconic predators in just five decades - Africa Geographic

Africa's lions are disappearing. New research shows that lion populations across the continent have declined by 75% in just five decades

africageographic.com

That’s not an untrue answer but it’s misleading as far as hunting. The map posted previously shows the pockets of wild lions and it is accurate at least in the countries where hunting takes place. How would you answer this question if the species was giraffe or elephant? The real problem with lions is human population growth and habitat loss. The huntable numbers on a quota are still there.

 

[ActionBob]

Have a Happy New Year. Don't drink and keyboard.

Hahaha Happy New,Year Wayne

 

[ActionBob]

By the way my distain for Jane Fonda has no bounds. Of course this will probably piss someone off.

Or make you more friends

 

[375Fox]

Could anyone comment on how wild lion populations are doing/trending? Just out of curiosity

The trend is going down, but I feel the answer mark-hunter gave you is slightly misleading. They are out of room unfortunately. The map posted earlier is quite accurate at least in the primary hunting countries of fragmented lion populations. The areas that can hold lions are generally at capacity. Cattle and lions don’t mix. There are few places left they could be introduced where they would be tolerated. Places like Bubye Valley and Save Valley in Zimbabwe have too many lions. Most major hunting areas in Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania have good populations of lions. You could also look up the recent reintroduction of lions to Zambezi delta in Mozambique.

 

[Rare Breed]

Hi Hunt Anything,

You are 100% right if a PH or outfitter take a stance on even a minor subject you are going to get what is all but hate mail, usually ending with something like “I will certainly scratch you off of my list of companies I would ever hunt with”, ok I can accept that. I know what services we provide and I have nothing to be ashamed of. I do like to think that when we/I lose a hunter over a opinion I have stated that he/she will replaced with someone who wants a genuine African experience no more no less.

My wife a Zimbabwe PH would post on this forum and I am sure she would not piss people off. The problem is according to AH forum only one owner may post as a sponsor. I mentioned she would be allowed to post as a agent for the company. Then the fight started!

By the way my distain for Jane Fonda has no bounds. Of course this will probably piss someone off.

Lon

always greatly both respect and appreciate your experience and posts!!! so excited to be able to hunt with you and Liesl in April!!! Also great to hear you are through your chemo and getting stronger everyday!!!

 

[Rare Breed]

I am working on putting together a fight at the SCI show in Nashville this year to settle this issue once and for all. I’m currently looking for a venue. I had originally thought about an mma style cage match, but I’m worried the cage would give the CBL hunters an advantage. Maybe a boxing ring would be more fair to everyone.

I’ll be selling tickets to anyone who wants to be a spectator. All proceeds will be going to a worthy conservation organization, the Save the Sureshot375 Foundation. If Mrs. Sureshot finds out how much I’ve spent on hunting and guns, extinction of this wild and magnificent predator could be eminent.

i vote for @TOBY458 be our CBL champion!!!! Toby i want you to know i’m behind you…way behind you…in fact so far behind you i will be at the bar. lol!!!!

 

[TOBY458]

I am working on putting together a fight at the SCI show in Nashville this year to settle this issue once and for all. I’m currently looking for a venue. I had originally thought about an mma style cage match, but I’m worried the cage would give the CBL hunters an advantage. Maybe a boxing ring would be more fair to everyone.

I’ll be selling tickets to anyone who wants to be a spectator. All proceeds will be going to a worthy conservation organization, the Save the Sureshot375 Foundation. If Mrs. Sureshot finds out how much I’ve spent on hunting and guns, extinction of this wild and magnificent predator could be eminent.

Better make it a free range fight. A cage fight would be unethical. Lol!