Lion hunting SA

[TOBY458]

i vote for @TOBY458 be our CBL champion!!!! Toby i want you to know i’m behind you…way behind you…in fact so far behind you i will be at the bar. lol!!!!

I'll even wear my CBL skin thong while holding up the trophy! Lol! DING DING DING!

 

[BRICKBURN]

Better make it a free range fight. A cage fight would be unethical. Lol!

Hold the roof and you should be good. Possibility of escape and all.

 

[WAB]

I'll even wear my CBL skin thong while holding up the trophy! Lol! DING DING DING!

Did you mean dong, dong, dong?

 

[Rare Breed]

I'll even wear my CBL skin thong while holding up the trophy! Lol! DING DING DING!

I love ya man but that is a visual image i just don’t want to contemplate. lol!!!

 

[revturbo9967]

I'll even wear my CBL skin thong while holding up the trophy! Lol! DING DING DING!

was the thong exportable?

 

[mark-hunter]

The map posted previously shows the pockets of wild lions and it is accurate at least in the countries where hunting takes place.

In my earlier post, I mentioned Mauritania as an example. They have zero lions, of course, and where there is no lions, there is also no hunting of lions, ergo zero lion pockets.
Should be accurate on maps.
Then we have countries where hunting is banned, and lions are kept in national parks, countries like Kenya. They are shown on the map as well. As for the problem of human enchroacment and habitat loss Kenya is clear example. Pockets in national parks.
Of course educated reader should have idea where are national parks.
There is also growing pressure from local tribes even in national parks, in Kenya. And poaching and illegal killing is present. this means growing human population problem as well.

How would you answer this question if the species was giraffe or elephant? The real problem with lions is human population growth and habitat loss.

For giraffe and elephant I would first check IUCN list (map of distribution is there), the link already provided. I am certain there are researches available on internet as well for giraffe and ele.
BTW, giraffe and ele, are iconic species of Africa, and the status of their population is very much discussed, debated and researched on both sides of pro hunting and anti hunting spectrum. (much easier to find then for example information on zebra duiker, or pigmey hippo, much less known species).

I also think that in average on this forum we are much more educated about hunting and non hunting countries in Africa and this can then easily be cross checked with actual distribution on map, to see eventual differences in numbers of any animal, in hunting and non hunting country.

The real problem for lions, habitat loss and population growth as you said, i fully agree. But the format of writing on this forum, was possibly preventing me for being more clear. (I cannot write books here)
Besides, English is not my first language which possibly prevents me from making a better and more clear point, with limited number of words. Sorry for that.

 

[OxfordTheCat]

Mine was full disclosure, released 35 days prior. It was microchip and that was confirmed. There were other lions on the property. Nothing shady, no deception.

Might have missed it earlier, but what was the size and topography of the hunting area?

 

[ActionBob]

Could anyone comment on how wild lion populations are doing/trending? Just out of curiosity

There were plenty of lions around where we hunted them in the Rungwa Region of Tanzania.

I'm betting they are in a similar predicament as elephants. When located in a wild area conducive to them being there, especially if it is an area with well managed hunting so that the humans in the area are incentived to at least tolerate their presence if not encourage it.... They do very well!

Unfortunately those areas are steadily being depleted.

I try to explain to the non elephant hunting folks I regularly encounter, how where there are elephants, there tends to be too many. Providing the poaching is kept in check. I believe elephant density in parts of Africa is likely near all time highs. However those places are constantly being reduced. If you want more elephants in the World, you have to keep humans out, especially resident humans because elephants are not good neighbors to have!

It is the same for wolves, grizzlies, lions. It is a completely opposite problem than what the common Soccer Mom or Karen thinks it is. It really is incredibly simple but nearly impossible to attain. Maintain reputable sport hunting to utilize the land and make it productive economically and you will save those areas and those animals.

 

[Fixfire]

Aĥ hell. We can keep this argument up for a few more pages. Let me start off with a few more hot button topics to get the blood flowing.
1. 404 Jeffery is no better than the 416 Rem Mag.
2. 458 Win Mag is an excellent DG cartridge.
3. Blaser R8 is an excellent hunting rifle.
4. Most people can't shoot big bore rifles or any double rifle as well as they can shoot a 375 or lesser bolt gun.
5. Most people have no business using a double rifle on their first DG hunt.

AND......GO!

You forgot PF versus CRF!!

 

[Fixfire]

You forgot PF versus CRF!!

Oops already addressed lol!!

 

[ActionBob]

Not sure if this is still the case but at one time the only wild lion hunting in RSA was on the border of Kruger National Park, not sure if you had to hope one came out of the park or not.
I have only seen 1 wild lion and it was if he was looking straight through me. Those amber/gold eyes were the most intense things I have ever seen! This was at about 25yds and something I will never forget.

Yea, right. They come through the fence. The guy showing you can almost skillfully tell you to wait in the truck while he runs over to the hole in the fence and brings back some lion mane hair he had in his pocket.

The two youngish wild lions on trail camera that are on bait originated from Kruger and came through the fence.... just like the two in the little pen out back waiting for the other two wild lions to be shot before they also can sneak in from Kruger.... or have the gate opened.

And why is that enclosed trailer suddenly hidden behind that shed this very morning the bigger wild lion in the other area suddenly showed up.... days after the hair in the pocket.... err on the fence.

You can go hunt a wild lion in South Africa....just be sure to wear blinders and not ask too many questions. Or pay a really high price and go with a truly legit honest Outfitter in an APNR truly open to Kruger. Then I'd still wonder.

Are you sure that wild lion that was looking through you wasn't really looking through you, to the truck he was expecting to deliver dinner?

We may never really know.

@Derek049 Go hunt a lion in a truly wild area so you don't have these lingering questions.....

Or do an honest CBL lion hunt, recognize what it is and enjoy it for that.

 

[revturbo9967]

Yea, right. They come through the fence. The guy showing you can almost skillfully tell you to wait in the truck while he runs over to the hole in the fence and brings back some lion mane hair he had in his pocket.

The two youngish wild lions on trail camera that are on bait originated from Kruger and came through the fence.... just like the two in the little pen out back waiting for the other two wild lions to be shot before they also can sneak in from Kruger.... or have the gate opened.

And why is that enclosed trailer suddenly hidden behind that shed this very morning the bigger wild lion in the other area suddenly showed up.... days after the hair in the pocket.... err on the fence.

You can go hunt a wild lion in South Africa....just be sure to wear blinders and not ask too many questions. Or pay a really high price and go with a truly legit honest Outfitter in an APNR truly open to Kruger. Then I'd still wonder.

Are you sure that wild lion that was looking through you wasn't really looking through you, to the truck he was expecting to deliver dinner?

We may never really know.

@Derek049 Go hunt a lion in a truly wild area so you don't have these lingering questions.....

Or do an honest CBL lion hunt, recognize what it is and enjoy it for that.

I know you have before, but can you share more of your experience with your lion hunt in SA?

 

[Hunt anything]

Yea, right. They come through the fence. The guy showing you can almost skillfully tell you to wait in the truck while he runs over to the hole in the fence and brings back some lion mane hair he had in his pocket.
Damn @ActionBob i was just stating what I have seen in advertising, not trying to add fuel to the argument LOL
The two youngish wild lions on trail camera that are on bait originated from Kruger and came through the fence.... just like the two in the little pen out back waiting for the other two wild lions to be shot before they also can sneak in from Kruger.... or have the gate opened.

And why is that enclosed trailer suddenly hidden behind that shed this very morning the bigger wild lion in the other area suddenly showed up.... days after the hair in the pocket.... err on the fence.

You can go hunt a wild lion in South Africa....just be sure to wear blinders and not ask too many questions. Or pay a really high price and go with a truly legit honest Outfitter in an APNR truly open to Kruger. Then I'd still wonder.

Are you sure that wild lion that was looking through you wasn't really looking through you, to the truck he was expecting to deliver dinner?

We may never really know.

@Derek049 Go hunt a lion in a truly wild area so you don't have these lingering questions.....

Or do an honest CBL lion hunt, recognize what it is and enjoy it for that.

 

[Hunt anything]

Something screwy with my connection tonight, kinda like this thread. @ActionBob i was merely stating what I saw in advertising years ago. Not trying to add fuel to the already burning inferno!

 

[ActionBob]

Something screwy with my connection tonight, kinda like this thread. @ActionBob i was merely stating what I saw in advertising years ago. Not trying to add fuel to the already burning inferno!

Yea that's probably the ad I saw and fell for

 

[ActionBob]

I know you have before, but can you share more of your experience with your lion hunt in SA?

You can go on a CBL lion hunt with an honest outfit that knows what they are selling and ate straight up about it.

You can go on a similar hunt but with someone who's lost track of the truth and claims it's something different than it is.

Then you can reply to a thread such as this.... Naw there are no real wild lion hunts in RSA.... Get a message from an outfitter telling you, very politely, how you are mistaken and he happens to have a real wild lion hunt available at a price comparable to a CBL (at the time, before the ban). Check him out and he has a great reputation. Meet in person and write a check for a deposit. The story is that he has this fenced area bordering an area that is open to Kruger. Also used for photo Safaris. There are two male lions that somehow got in there! They are active and hunting.... However the outfitter is hanging bait for them in a pan with water so he has trail cam pics!!!

Get there and first night in camp you hear lions roaring.... very near.

Excitement builds!

Head out and find lion tracks that first morning!

Pull up the water hole and the two lions run off across the road. They are right there in the bushes watching as we disembark. Could have shot one right then and there! But let's wait, get them on bait and see what we have. We hang bait and as we drive off, the lions trot right back for their lunch. But one is very young. The other limping and in very tough shape. Appears to have a broken leg. This won't do, can't shoot one of these and post pics. So I replied that was fine, I booked an extra week beyond this hunt and will just go do a CBL lion.... What I didn't realize at the time was that there was no way an outfitter with his hooks into you is ever going to let you slip away and spend money elsewhere that he sees as his!

So a plan is made. He has a friend who often has these damned wild lions coming in through his fence to dine on his plains game. We can get a permit to hunt there! So we bait and call and one morning soon after, as I'm wanting to get going as we are about to be burning daylight.... we can't leave camp yet because of some bullshit reason. Then a phone call and we must leave right now and damned near can feel the pistons coming through the hood of the Cruiser it is wound up so tight speeding to the hpoes a lion is on bait!

We get there and the PH does everything the opposite of what a PH would do on a wild dangerous game hunt. Of course I didn't recognize this due to my lack of experience.... But he goes way overboard trying to make me nervous and overly excited.

Strangely there is a new guy present and he's carrying a rifle... he's with the land owners son (the lion hair fence guy) and they are on a property road pointing about 300 yards towards where a bait was hung by some pretty thick wire. There is a lion! A male with an ok mane. O ask who is this other guy? PH is hurrying along to get the sticks set up and brushes it off. Nobody, just a friend of the owners.

Can you shoot from here! Seriously, when I asked the wisdom of baiting there you had this elaborate plan of how we can stalk around behind and get close? Well, come on we'll just walk right at him down this road.... so we do, the lion could care less. Look he pulled the bait down! Shoot him quickly! We are closer so the sticks go up and I shoot it through the chest as it is perfectly broadside. It spins and I shoot again iand it drops stone dead.

We approach cautiously. Admiring the lion and i notice there are zero ticks. Everything else we shot was covered in ticks. He had walked in some mud but nothing caked in his fur, beautifully clean animal. He does have a scare on his face which many members on here claim to prove it's a wild lion. Things just don't feel right. I inspect the bait and the wire was cut, not broken. I'm a livestock farmer and have been all my life, I know these things.

The son and stranger come over to congratulate me and I'm suspicious so I shake the guys hand and say thanks for delivering him, he nods an acknowledgement and says he made a long drive all night! At which the PH gets between us and the son gets the guy out of there.
As we are leaving I notice the bakkie with an enclosed trailer and inquire. I flat out ask if they brought that lion in early that morning or last night... No no no.

I inquire with the outfitter to which I get denials.

I cannot prove anything beyond doubt. As I write this, I don't know for sure? But I do know if I had done a CBL hunt that I'd know what I had. And I know I have doubts, regret, and an unwanted amount of scheptism.

And I know what I have from the Tanzania hunt! A true old warrior lion who lived his life wild free in some of the real remaining wilderness. His demeanor was that of a king of his domain. I'll choose to experience more of that

 

[375Fox]

You can go on a CBL lion hunt with an honest outfit that knows what they are selling and ate straight up about it.

You can go on a similar hunt but with someone who's lost track of the truth and claims it's something different than it is.

Then you can reply to a thread such as this.... Naw there are no real wild lion hunts in RSA.... Get a message from an outfitter telling you, very politely, how you are mistaken and he happens to have a real wild lion hunt available at a price comparable to a CBL (at the time, before the ban). Check him out and he has a great reputation. Meet in person and write a check for a deposit. The story is that he has this fenced area bordering an area that is open to Kruger. Also used for photo Safaris. There are two male lions that somehow got in there! They are active and hunting.... However the outfitter is hanging bait for them in a pan with water so he has trail cam pics!!!

Get there and first night in camp you hear lions roaring.... very near.

Excitement builds!

Head out and find lion tracks that first morning!

Pull up the water hole and the two lions run off across the road. They are right there in the bushes watching as we disembark. Could have shot one right then and there! But let's wait, get them on bait and see what we have. We hang bait and as we drive off, the lions trot right back for their lunch. But one is very young. The other limping and in very tough shape. Appears to have a broken leg. This won't do, can't shoot one of these and post pics. So I replied that was fine, I booked an extra week beyond this hunt and will just go do a CBL lion.... What I didn't realize at the time was that there was no way an outfitter with his hooks into you is ever going to let you slip away and spend money elsewhere that he sees as his!

So a plan is made. He has a friend who often has these damned wild lions coming in through his fence to dine on his plains game. We can get a permit to hunt there! So we bait and call and one morning soon after, as I'm wanting to get going as we are about to be burning daylight.... we can't leave camp yet because of some bullshit reason. Then a phone call and we must leave right now and damned near can feel the pistons coming through the hood of the Cruiser it is wound up so tight speeding to the hpoes a lion is on bait!

We get there and the PH does everything the opposite of what a PH would do on a wild dangerous game hunt. Of course I didn't recognize this due to my lack of experience.... But he goes way overboard trying to make me nervous and overly excited.

Strangely there is a new guy present and he's carrying a rifle... he's with the land owners son (the lion hair fence guy) and they are on a property road pointing about 300 yards towards where a bait was hung by some pretty thick wire. There is a lion! A male with an ok mane. O ask who is this other guy? PH is hurrying along to get the sticks set up and brushes it off. Nobody, just a friend of the owners.

Can you shoot from here! Seriously, when I asked the wisdom of baiting there you had this elaborate plan of how we can stalk around behind and get close? Well, come on we'll just walk right at him down this road.... so we do, the lion could care less. Look he pulled the bait down! Shoot him quickly! We are closer so the sticks go up and I shoot it through the chest as it is perfectly broadside. It spins and I shoot again iand it drops stone dead.

We approach cautiously. Admiring the lion and i notice there are zero ticks. Everything else we shot was covered in ticks. He had walked in some mud but nothing caked in his fur, beautifully clean animal. He does have a scare on his face which many members on here claim to prove it's a wild lion. Things just don't feel right. I inspect the bait and the wire was cut, not broken. I'm a livestock farmer and have been all my life, I know these things.

The son and stranger come over to congratulate me and I'm suspicious so I shake the guys hand and say thanks for delivering him, he nods an acknowledgement and says he made a long drive all night! At which the PH gets between us and the son gets the guy out of there.
As we are leaving I notice the bakkie with an enclosed trailer and inquire. I flat out ask if they brought that lion in early that morning or last night... No no no.

I inquire with the outfitter to which I get denials.

I cannot prove anything beyond doubt. As I write this, I don't know for sure? But I do know if I had done a CBL hunt that I'd know what I had. And I know I have doubts, regret, and an unwanted amount of scheptism.

And I know what I have from the Tanzania hunt! A true old warrior lion who lived his life wild free in some of the real remaining wilderness. His demeanor was that of a king of his domain. I'll choose to experience more of that

Thanks for that. I believe you are the only person on the forum who has done both as a comparison.

 

[ActionBob]

I had a Jersey Bull growing up that was obviously a domesticated breed and still very dangerous. CBL lions might not be domesticated at this point but they are raised as livestock. No one argues they aren’t dangerous.

I've had 2 neighbors killed by dairy bulls and my mother was saved from a bull attack by our old German Shepherd. Mom had made a pet of that bull. She got cracked ribs out of that and knows she got off easy.. People get kicked and killed by horses. Any animal big enough or with sharp claws and fangs can be very dangerous. Didn't a white tiger do some damage to his handler in Vegas? People have been killed by domestic dogs....

 

[Hunt anything]

I don’t think I could have kept my composure as @ActionBob did, happy you rectified the situation by a truly wild lion in Tanzania.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Thanks for that. I believe you are the only person on the forum who has done both as a comparison.

That is willing to chime in.