Lion Hunt Outfitter

[Cecil Hammonds]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

I’m not saying switch outfitters but you may reach out to @ActionBob, @Wheels and @Royal27 about the outfitter they hunted with in TZ and the cat situation there

Thread 'TANZANIA: Safari ya Marafiki (Safari of Friends) Mwatisi Safaris'

Apr 9, 2022

Safari ya Marafiki (Safari of friends) Mwatisi Safaris

Jerome establishing AH changed my perspective on hunting internationally with friends. This hunt is the first international hunt I have done with friends and probably won’t be the last. It is interesting how friendships can develop through a website like AH. People you don’t know that live half way around the country or the world end up people you are in WhatsApp chats with on a regular basis.


AH friends.

These are the AH friends that made this safari possible @Just Gina @ActionBob @Royal27 and some old goober...

• Wheels
• Replies: 55
• Forum: Hunting reports Africa

• 
• 

Post in thread 'TANZANIA: Has Anyone Hunted With Mwatisi Safaris Ltd?'

May 23, 2022

Very, Very Rare to see 2 big lions together in this day and age!!

We were initially concerned about being able to successfully hunt two lions. Sherdell kept assuring us it would be no problem.

It was crazy and way beyond my wildest dreams how many big cats, and other predators, were in that area! We saw big male lion tracks regularly. Left with several big males still around and hitting baits.

And after we took 3 leopard, I think there were 6 left on bait!

• ActionBob

• 

 

[375Fox]

I wouldn’t take it too personally. If you had a good hunt previously and he has a good reputation and a good area follow up at SCI like he asked. He might be sold out a long time in advance or just feels in person is the way to plan a hunt of that caliber plus he probably was busy.

 

[AimSmall]

He did ask to meet with you.

 

[WAB]

It’s a bit impersonal but written communication is always challenging, especially if he is ESL. I would show some grace and meet with him.

 

[Philip Glass]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

It’s a $100,000 hunt so that may be part of the issue with him. Who knows.

 

[AZDAVE]

Good morning
Thought about your post and knowing the outfitter you hunted with a couple years ago and with it being the middle of the hunting season in Tanzania, in addition that he picked up some of the clients from his partner company due to a death in that family, my bet is that he is overwhelmed keeping all the irons in the fire so to speak.

Would suggest that you send him another Whatsapp text and tell him you would really like to discuss the options sooner rather than later as you are looking to make serious plans before the show season. Would it be possible between clients in camp to set up a short whatsapp call. If that doesn't work move on and find a better fit.

 

[ActionBob]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

First off, I personally would not take issue with that note. I'd take it as "let's talk in person, this is a big deal, a special hunt and I want to discuss it in person."

From there it becomes pure speculation. Does he want to give you a deal? Or are prices going up? Is the lion population down? Maybe its up?

If you really want to get it booked sooner than later, take the advice from @AZDAVE

If you can have patience, wait and visit at SCI.

If you want a better deal, shop around. We did not pay $100k for our entire hunt which included 2 buffalo, leopard, lion, full slate of Plains Game, observer fee, full 21 days. No charter was needed but is available at cost.

Prices have jumped since our hunt in 2021. I think some new bidders for the concessions have increased costs and slowed booking. Your Outfitter may want to go over that with you in person also.

 

[revturbo9967]

I would agree with what has been already said. A hunt of that size may want to be discussed in person. He also may be booked far out and want to gauge timing.

 

[FlyGuy]

As has been said, meet with him in person.
A free range, wild lion hunt needs more than a few WhatsApp messages to arrange properly.
Most outfitters, especially the good ones, don’t have a lot of time on their hands.
Hunting season with back to back safaris, show and marketing season, family time, travel, maintenance of vehicles and camps, HR, anti-poaching etc.etc

 

[Wheels]

Most Tanzania outfitters are in the field and slammed until mid November or so, depending on the area and when the rains normally start. If time is of the essence for you, I would tell him that you want to make a decision prior to show season and that you need to talk to him by December 1st, or whatever date you choose.

A lot goes into determining a lion hunt including price. Some areas with a lower density of lion might be cheaper and still be a great hunt. This year at DSC I talked to an outfitter with a good reputation who gets one lion on quota every year. He had 1 buffalo and 1 lion for 58k I believe, which seemed to be a good deal. (think I remember this correct)

The two areas with the highest density of lion population are the greater Ruaha and greater Niassa ecosystems. There are multiple good outfitters in these areas. If considering a lion, I would probably talk to at least two outfitters in each of these areas. Prices will be all over the board. A friend took a lion plus a number of other animals in a Rungwa concession in 2022 for around 100k . He was quoted a price on the neighboring concession by another outfitter for 250k. It pays to do your due diligence.

 

[Scott CWO]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

You are a very experienced hunter but forgive me for saying that I don’t think you grasp how crazy it is during hunting season for outfitters and PHs. It’s fun but it’s a grind day after day without days off. Plus, as others have said, it’s a serious hunt with lots of variables to talk over. In the best areas, you’ll probably need to book two or three years in advance. Most wild concessions in TZ, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Zambia are allowed two lions per year and some only one. Be patient and weigh everything out objectively. I would take advantage of the time he has asked for to dig into other options and get as educated as you can about the pros and cons of different areas, countries and times to hunt. That way, you can make a fully informed objective decision instead of maybe choosing his option because you put a lot of weight (maybe too much) into his option because you already know him. Obviously, a wild lion safari is a big investment in daily rates, trophy fee plus the trophy fees for bait animals. Another major consideration is if the area and conservation work done there will qualify for a USFWS Import Permit and the age of the lions taken in the past. I got my import permit in December and was also notified that my lion was over six years old and is approved for shipping. Tanzania waits until July and August to conduct the official aging of all lions. If you would like to discuss the research that I did, feel free to reach out to me. Good luck to you! It’s an exciting process!

 

[Fatback]

There is some great advice in this thread. I started getting serious about booking a lion hunt back in January of this year. I spent the majority of my 4 days at SCI this year speaking with numerous outfitters and left Nashville with a pretty good idea of who I wanted to hunt with. It still took me 6 more months of research and contacting references before I felt comfortable enough to sign a contract and pay a deposit for wild lion hunt.

I will say that I reached out to several members here, privately, and they were all very helpful in providing insight and advice that helped me make my decision. I hope you are able to get the type of hunt you are wanting. The one piece of advice I would offer would be to be patient and do as much research as possible to ensure that you have the best chance of having the type of hunt you are wanting. Good luck in your search.

 

[Cecil Hammonds]

You are a very experienced hunter but forgive me for saying that I don’t think you grasp how crazy it is during hunting season for outfitters and PHs. It’s fun but it’s a grind day after day without days off. Plus, as others have said, it’s a serious hunt with lots of variables to talk over. In the best areas, you’ll probably need to book two or three years in advance. Most wild concessions in TZ, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and Zambia are allowed two lions per year and some only one. Be patient and weigh everything out objectively. I would take advantage of the time he has asked for to dig into other options and get as educated as you can about the pros and cons of different areas, countries and times to hunt. That way, you can make a fully informed objective decision instead of maybe choosing his option because you put a lot of weight (maybe too much) into his option because you already know him. Obviously, a wild lion safari is a big investment in daily rates, trophy fee plus the trophy fees for bait animals. Another major consideration is if the area and conservation work done there will qualify for a USFWS Import Permit and the age of the lions taken in the past. I got my import permit in December and was also notified that my lion was over six years old and is approved for shipping. Tanzania waits until July and August to conduct the official aging of all lions. If you would like to discuss the research that I did, feel free to reach out to me. Good luck to you! It’s an exciting process!View attachment 626692

Awesome information! Thanks for that I will reach out to you. This is very helpful indeed!

 

[Cecil Hammonds]

There is some great advice in this thread. I started getting serious about booking a lion hunt back in January of this year. I spent the majority of my 4 days at SCI this year speaking with numerous outfitters and left Nashville with a pretty good idea of who I wanted to hunt with. It still took me 6 more months of research and contacting references before I felt comfortable enough to sign a contract and pay a deposit for wild lion hunt.

I will say that I reached out to several members here, privately, and they were all very helpful in providing insight and advice that helped me make my decision. I hope you are able to get the type of hunt you are wanting. The one piece of advice I would offer would be to be patient and do as much research as possible to ensure that you have the best chance of having the type of hunt you are wanting. Good luck in your search.

Excellent advice, many thanks!

 

[Cecil Hammonds]

Most Tanzania outfitters are in the field and slammed until mid November or so, depending on the area and when the rains normally start. If time is of the essence for you, I would tell him that you want to make a decision prior to show season and that you need to talk to him by December 1st, or whatever date you choose.

A lot goes into determining a lion hunt including price. Some areas with a lower density of lion might be cheaper and still be a great hunt. This year at DSC I talked to an outfitter with a good reputation who gets one lion on quota every year. He had 1 buffalo and 1 lion for 58k I believe, which seemed to be a good deal. (think I remember this correct)

The two areas with the highest density of lion population are the greater Ruaha and greater Niassa ecosystems. There are multiple good outfitters in these areas. If considering a lion, I would probably talk to at least two outfitters in each of these areas. Prices will be all over the board. A friend took a lion plus a number of other animals in a Rungwa concession in 2022 for around 100k . He was quoted a price on the neighboring concession by another outfitter for 250k. It pays to do your due diligence.

Great info, thanks much!

 

[Cecil Hammonds]

Thanks guys for all the replies and great advice. I will admit that I really didn't get my feelings hurt by the outfitters reply. I also realize I kind of chucked a grenade in the middle of the room with my comment. I was hoping to generate some great comments, and you did not disappoint! Thanks to all!

 

[dchum]

Most Tanzania outfitters are in the field and slammed until mid November or so, depending on the area and when the rains normally start.

The two areas with the highest density of lion population are the greater Ruaha and greater Niassa ecosystems. There are multiple good outfitters in these areas. If considering a lion, I would probably talk to at least two outfitters in each of these areas. Prices will be all over the board.

very true about EA outfitters being in the heart of the season at the moment! Good point

Maswa probably has the highest density at this point it time. @Scott CWO knows little about that

I have good friend heading out there soon. Cats are everywhere in that ecosystem at the moment!

 

[sureshot375]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

He may not know his quota yet. If you are otherwise happy with him as an outfitter, I wouldn’t hesitate to talk with him at the show.

What you saw as get with my secretary, he might have meant as let’s do business in person friend.

 

[One Day...]

Hi guys,

Just a little bit of a rant here, but looking for thoughts on a recent experience I had with an outfitter that I hunted buffalo with in Tanzania a few years ago. I recently reached out to him asking his thoughts about a lion hunt and he said he had some in his concession in Tanzania. We chatted a bit on WhatsApp about it, and then he asked if I was going to the shows and I said I would probably go to SCI. He said well let's talk there. Make an appointment and see me at my booth. At that point in my mind I heard "get with my secretary and get on my calendar", and it turned me off completely to put it mildly. I realize it's hunting season and he was probably busy, but that came across like he wasn't taking me seriously. I only reached out to him because I hunted with his outfit before. Maybe I am taking that a bit hard, but to me if I am going to lay out the kind of cash for a true wild lion hunt, then I would expect better than that.

Thoughts?

Written communication is difficult, especially in a hurry (e.g. texts) and quite often does not come out the way it was intended.

I would suggest that you have had the 'emotional reaction' so far, and I understand it (I once had to explain at length to a friend surprised to not get an immediate response from his PH that he is not the only friend/client his PH has, and his world cannot stop when you call...).

A 'benevolent reaction' would be along the lines "the way he said it annoys me, but he probably meant: let's agree on a time to meet at my booth so that I can be entirely focused on you."

Bottom line: if you had a great experience hunting with him, be magnanimous over a small communication faux pas and hunt again with the PH you appreciated and who gave you a satisfactory hunt ... and be realistic: you are not his only friend/client and his world cannot stop when you reach out...