Limpopo Buffalo

My PH who I have hunted with the last several years has been trying to get me to come back for a Buffalo as he knows its on my bucket list. I am not a good judge of Bull's so I thought I would put this in here for those with more experience to help me with some input. I am not looking for a record book Bull but something representative and good quality. He sent me these 2 that he has a location on for a possible 2026 hunt. Any thoughts or input are helpful. Are these decent quality Bulls for SA ?

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Those are nice bulls with deep swoops and good curl.
Who is your outfitter?
 
I’ve been through this before with you where you’ll pretend to take high road. I find it difficult to believe it’s a genuine response based on past behavior and particularly with your continued talk of self righteousness. Some of comments on this thread are unnecessary, but I’m unwilling to support practices simply because they make hunting affordable. I’m particularly unwilling to support those practices when they are dishonestly marketed as I feel is often the case in Limpopo. I’ve made mistakes in South Africa and hopefully someone else can avoid them. Maybe the OP fully understood what these buffalo hunts are from his PH but likely did not or he wouldn’t have asked the question. There is often an attempt to shut down any discussion if it doesn’t line up with the marketing narrative with game farming (as you are attempting). There is also an attempt to use class warfare to make it acceptable (again as you are attempting). Unfortunately most individuals here have picked a side and support it regardless just like politics. Applauding you for not injecting negativity when you call individuals you disagree with keyboard warriors, pretentious pricks, elitist snobs is a perfect example. My arguments are usually very logical. Some individuals want to avoid logic particularly if it means accepting a different reality about a past hunt or trophy. If that means I lose credibility for a period of time with those individuals so be it. If they continue hunting they may have a different view point eventually. You yourself lose credibility when you start making emotional arguments instead of logical arguments. I find it very difficult to forget past arguments you’ve made rather than admit making even a partial mistake. You can continue thinking you’re helping your side. I’ll continue posting what I think helps someone make the best decision even if they choose not to listen.
I’m not the one posting on emotion as opposed to logic. You just said yourself your entire argument is based off of YOUR mistakes in RSA. Your words not mine. Yes, I will call a spade a spade. You take the stance that you are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong and beneath you. You’re correct, this isn’t our first rodeo over this and you betcha I’ve used such phrases to describe your behavior. It is what it is.
I have no idea where you get off implying I somehow owe you or anyone else some apology or need to admit anything. I stand behind what I say and I quite frankly don’t give a damn what you or anyone else thinks about that. I like you started out civil but due to years of this same pissing match and insults flying from both sides have lost patience over it.
What you seem to not understand is that I could care less that you believe what you believe. I support your right to believe it and your belief’s have no effect whatsoever on me on the surface. What I have a problem with is this exact situation where you and a few others go out of your way to pipe up on every post possible to shove your opinions down others throats when it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual post. The OP didn’t ask anything other than if they were good buffalo for RSA in a post specifically about hunting buffalo in Limpopo with a PH he’s hunted with before. Then you and some others trip over each other to immediately start bashing RSA and hunting in RSA. It’s inappropriate and unnecessary. If this would have been a post asking specifically about what people think about hunting RSA I would have kept my mouth shut and not made a comment either way. I both agree and disagree with many arguments you have made in the past furthermore I have respected your and other’s opinions on specific matters as there are many you are certainly more qualified to have an opinion on than I. It’s the unnecessary defamation of anyone who owns a hunting outfit in RSA and certainly anyone who stoops low enough to dare participate in such nonsense that I have a problem with.
Hate me all you want but it’s the truth. Try going back and actually reading all the things I’ve said over the years and I think you’d likely at least have a better understanding of what I actually take issue with. You may still disagree but at least you’d know what you are actually arguing against.
As far as doubting my motivation and genuineness (not sure if that’s actually a word), I am who I am and say what I think and mean. I’m not mysterious, quite the opposite. Whether you believe that or not, I could care less. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Those that actually know me can testify to my character, I don’t need to.
 
With respect Joe that proves my point. It had absolutely nothing to do with anything the new member asked and was completely unnecessary and off topic. I would go as far as to say rude.
I know I get wound up and will beat a dead horse, to death?, I guess I could say. I am also equally as guilty at giving my unsolicited opinion, hence this situation. That being said being polite doesn’t cost anyone anything and it sure seems there is a group of people who should know better, that feel the need to completely crap all over people anytime anything comes up that they feel is beneath them and shame those who disagree.
Now you are a grown man and entitled to your opinions but taking a dig at people for no purpose other than to belittle them has no place and is grossly inappropriate. I also get that, that is my opinion as well so there is that. I have just always hoped many of you that I have had a tremendous amount of respect for and considered gentleman would be above such petty things. Unfortunately, it seems to be the opposite more often than not.
I know what he asked. I replied, in what I think was a light hearted manner in a way that might cause him to think. If you believe that reply was rude, then I regret that perception, but I do not regret the message I was trying to convey. It certainly wasn't a dig - unless perhaps at outfitters who catalogue specific animals to be killed - I might indeed "belittle" that practice. As I noted, South Africa is a treasure to have as a hunting destination. However, one needs to exercise care - particularly for what might be a once in a lifetime experience.
 
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I’m not the one posting on emotion as opposed to logic. You just said yourself your entire argument is based off of YOUR mistakes in RSA. Your words not mine. Yes, I will call a spade a spade. You take the stance that you are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong and beneath you. You’re correct, this isn’t our first rodeo over this and you betcha I’ve used such phrases to describe your behavior. It is what it is.
I have no idea where you get off implying I somehow owe you or anyone else some apology or need to admit anything. I stand behind what I say and I quite frankly don’t give a damn what you or anyone else thinks about that. I like you started out civil but due to years of this same pissing match and insults flying from both sides have lost patience over it.
What you seem to not understand is that I could care less that you believe what you believe. I support your right to believe it and your belief’s have no effect whatsoever on me on the surface. What I have a problem with is this exact situation where you and a few others go out of your way to pipe up on every post possible to shove your opinions down others throats when it has absolutely nothing to do with the actual post. The OP didn’t ask anything other than if they were good buffalo for RSA in a post specifically about hunting buffalo in Limpopo with a PH he’s hunted with before. Then you and some others trip over each other to immediately start bashing RSA and hunting in RSA. It’s inappropriate and unnecessary. If this would have been a post asking specifically about what people think about hunting RSA I would have kept my mouth shut and not made a comment either way. I both agree and disagree with many arguments you have made in the past furthermore I have respected your and other’s opinions on specific matters as there are many you are certainly more qualified to have an opinion on than I. It’s the unnecessary defamation of anyone who owns a hunting outfit in RSA and certainly anyone who stoops low enough to dare participate in such nonsense that I have a problem with.
Hate me all you want but it’s the truth. Try going back and actually reading all the things I’ve said over the years and I think you’d likely at least have a better understanding of what I actually take issue with. You may still disagree but at least you’d know what you are actually arguing against.
As far as doubting my motivation and genuineness (not sure if that’s actually a word), I am who I am and say what I think and mean. I’m not mysterious, quite the opposite. Whether you believe that or not, I could care less. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. Those that actually know me can testify to my character, I don’t need to.
The last time we had this argument you said there is no difference between US state wildlife agencies restocking areas with wild sheep that have been decimated by disease and stocking trophies in high fence areas in South Africa to allow more hunters to come through. You make your business off put and take hunting and sympathize with those in South Africa who also make it part of their business. We aren’t going to agree. I lost most respect for you the last time we had this argument and you gave that answer. Enjoy your night.
 
The last time we had this argument you said there is no difference between US state wildlife agencies restocking areas with wild sheep that have been decimated by disease and stocking trophies in high fence areas in South Africa to allow more hunters to come through. You make your business off put and take hunting and sympathize with those in South Africa who also make it part of their business. We aren’t going to agree. I lost most respect for you the last time we had this argument and you gave that answer. Enjoy your night.
If it wasn’t for these “evil” operators in RSA there would virtually be no wildlife outside of parks there. Most wildlife was completely decimated in South Africa by the 1970’s.
So be it, Believe me I won’t loose sleep. I do wish you all the best but you are right, we won’t agree on a lot of things but I don’t hold it against you. That being said I will voice my opinion anytime i feel you or anyone else is using a thread to belittle others just because they have a difference of opinion on perfectly legal and ethical practices.
 
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If it wasn’t for these “evil” operators in RSA there would virtually be no wildlife outside of parks there. Most wildlife was completely decimated in South Africa by the 1970’s.
So be it, Believe me I won’t loose sleep. I do wish you all the best but you are right, we won’t agree on a lot of things but don’t hold it against you. That being said I will voice my opinion anytime i feel you or anyone else is using a thread to belittle others just because they have a difference of opinion on perfectly legal and ethical practices.
If you see no difference between hunting put and take bulls and hunting bulls from self sustaining herds on sustainable quotas I think that’s a problem. Not all South African outfitter are the same. I hope people take your advice for what it’s worth.
 
I know what he asked. I replied, in what I think was a light hearted manner in a way that might cause him to think. If you believe that reply was rude, then I regret that perception, but I do not regret the message I was trying to convey. It certainly wasn't a dig - unless perhaps at outfitters who catalogue specific animals to be killed - I might indeed "belittle" that practice. As I noted, South Africa is a treasure to have as a hunting destination. However, one needs to exercise care - particularly for what might be a once in a lifetime experience.
Well Joe it’s sad that you can’t simply be happy for someone who chooses a different approach to something and is doing absolutely nothing illegal or wrong in their approach in a manner that makes it viable or affordable for them.
I still don’t see the reason why such statements are deemed necessary when they have absolutely nothing to do with anything in the conversation nor add to or are of any constructive value.
Again just my opinion and I am well aware of what opinions are like.
I view it no different than archery or handgun hunting for elephants. I strongly disagree on a personal ethics level with the practice but will defend someone’s right to do it where it is legal to the death. It’s their burden to bear not mine.
 
For you, do you!


For Cape Buffalo, I want completely free range animals.
If that's not important to you, then have at it!


For me, I really preferred the experience of walking nearly 50 miles for my first heard bull in Mozambique.

If that gruel doesn't appeal to you, and it probably doesn't to most hunters, just take a big one in RSA and be happy!!!
 
As a relatively new member and certainly very new to hunting Africa I find it regrettable that we have turned what appears to be a legitimate attempt at knowledge from a new member into a pissing match of theoretical one upsmanship among more established members that are held in good regard. For the record I’ve never seen nor hunted a Cape buffalo of any sort. I can not contribute in any meaningful way to the OP’s questions. I’d like to learn from those that can. That said…

Id like to believe everyone here is well intentioned and capable of a civil respectful discussion with the global intent of bettering our community and the hunting community at large. I respectfully submit that the turn this thread has taken is not putting our collective best foot forward; especially when I re-read the OP questions and comments. We can and should do better.
 
@gizmo Don't candy coat it, Erik......tell 'em how you really feel. ......I sure enjoyed your posts. I mentioned earlier that I took my Uncle Bob on a buff hunt in RSA, on a relatively small property, for a designated bull.......genetics and age required his removal.....Bob, in his 80's, had a great time and now, in his 90's is still enjoying telling friends about his buffalo hunt. And showing off the huge buff on his wall. The hunt pushed him to his limit. There is a hunt for everyone.......and to have the well healed, the wealthy, or the elitist rain on another man's dream says more about the man than it does about the buffalo. Keep telling it how you see it Erik.....having had the pleasure of hunting with you, I would expect no less...................FW Bill
 
If you see no difference between hunting put and take bulls and hunting bulls from self sustaining herds on sustainable quotas I think that’s a problem. Not all South African outfitter are the same. I hope people take your advice for what it’s worth.
Again, I don’t think you are grasping any of the points I have ever tried to make. To clarify any misunderstanding, not that I should really care at this point, I do recognize a difference between the two and they aren’t the same but. I also recognize the conservation aspect of what you call a “put and take” operation. Also, of what you think my operation is about. They both have their places in conservation but for very different reasons. You are right as a matter of principle I don’t view a DNR’s stocking of sheep back into areas they once were any different than hunting a blackbuck on my ranch (which for the record has a better than average chance of being born on the ranch as opposed to being stocked as a 1 or 2 year old nor do I have any breeding pens) or a Cape buffalo in RSA. All 3 instances are only made possible by the economic value given to them by hunters. No one else in the world foots the bill for the vast majority of wildlife conservation like hunters do. Furthermore, the animals range from their only existence all the way to their ability to remain in existence in wild areas as a result of hunting dollars in every form. That’s a fact Jack. So no I don’t distinguish between the sheep, buffalo, elephants, or a damn Sasquatch. At their root core they exist only because someone somewhere wants to hunt one by some means. I take the very vocal stance that as long as what one is doing is legal then it is none of your damn business how they do it nor do you have an actual right to judge them or belittle them for it. If they are breaking a law, sure go for it. If not, what is it if any consequence to you or anyone else.
What our entire issue between the two of us boils down to is this, and it is quite simple. You have an issue with what I do for a living and what I believe. So be it, I don’t care. Where it actually becomes an issue is when you attempt to force your views and beliefs down mine and others throats and try to proclaim your self as somehow morally superior. I got news for you, I’m not going to roll over. I will stand up for my rights and the right of others 100% of the time. I in no way feel I am superior to you or anyone else but I sure as hell am not going to tolerate self righteous BS as I’ve stated on many occasions. You have the right to your opinion and I respect that but you don’t have the right to belittle others for theirs. That’s where you and I get cross. Just say it for what it is. You disagree with your perception of my views, beliefs, and what you perceive as my business. That’s great, I don’t care. Good on ya but the rest of us don’t need smart ass remarks and snide comments over it. And YES I am guilty of being very snarky and abrasive toward you and others but only when forced to defend what I believe in or in response to someone getting on their soap box and telling the rest of us what trash we are because we dare to have a difference of opinion.
So again, I do wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart and it’s unfortunate you have a personal issue with me that we can’t get past but in the end I promise it won’t effect either of us in the least. I know I’m not going to loose sleep and I certainly hope you don’t either.
On a side note though I’d certainly be glad to buy you a beer sometime and visit with you over this or anything else. I’d also very much enjoy hearing about some of your experiences, you have gotten to do a lot of things that I unfortunately will likely never get to do due to cost and time.
I still won’t budge on standing up for what I believe in though nor will I keep my mouth shut if I feel something is out of line. If that’s a deal breaker oh well I guess.
 
It literally asks, “Are these decent quality Bulls for SA ?” That’s in the OP. The title is “Limpopo Buffalo” annnd he says that he’s considering hunting with an RSA outfitter that he has previously hunted with. Through deductive reasoning one can assume this is about these specific bulls, with a specific outfitter, in RSA. No where does it ask anyone’s opinion hunting in RSA. It’s asking about the two buffalo pictured.

Now I don’t necessarily have a problem, nor does anyone else I would think, that politely suggesting different hunts in other places would be inappropriate if done tastefully and respectfully.

But that being said that wasn’t what he was asking nor is it relevant to his topic. He asked a specific question and people jumped in with their usual anti-RSA and “I’m better than you” rhetoric. That’s what I and a hellava lot of others have a problem with. Within 4 or so responses the usuals pipe up asking “what their names are” and there the shit talking started.

You can try to defend it all you want but the fact is he wasn’t asking anyone’s opinion of buffalo hunting in RSA he was simply asking if the two buffalo pictured were good for RSA and what a good buffalo looks like. Everything else was nothing more than people piping up with their unsolicited opinions of RSA buffalo hunting.

I’ll also note that the OP is a new member and just got belittled by people that have been around long enough to know better. Additionally, he hasn’t responded since except for thanking 1 person for giving him advice on judging buffalo. Gee, can’t imagine why? Especially after the warm reception he received from several who should know better. It’s embarrassing to see how some on this site act towards fellow hunters for asking nothing more than a question. It’s also incredibly rude, not only to the OP, but to every single RSA outfitter that pays a lot of money every year to advertise on this site.

I’m shocked still that myself and many others have to constantly defend other members especially new members and predominantly RSA outfitter’s from people who can’t act like gentleman or adults. Especially considering who some of these people were and are in their private lives that instigate such things. One would think many would have more class than that. I’ve always considered this a gentlemanly group and that is what separates us from all the other hunting sites. It’s sad how many potentially great members are turned off by this kind of crap. I know I’m not speaking out of turn on this as it is almost always one of the main topics that gets discussed when I visit with fellow AH members and it’s a heck of a lot of them. It makes us all look bad and is completely uncalled for.

I don’t think he was belittled at all. He got good advice on what to look for in a trophy and a hunt. In many of our opinions, the hunt has as much to do with the quality of the trophy as the tape measure. I would respectfully suggest that you are the one turning this into a royal pissing match.
 
As a relatively new member and certainly very new to hunting Africa I find it regrettable that we have turned what appears to be a legitimate attempt at knowledge from a new member into a pissing match of theoretical one upsmanship among more established members that are held in good regard. For the record I’ve never seen nor hunted a Cape buffalo of any sort. I can not contribute in any meaningful way to the OP’s questions. I’d like to learn from those that can. That said…

Id like to believe everyone here is well intentioned and capable of a civil respectful discussion with the global intent of bettering our community and the hunting community at large. I respectfully submit that the turn this thread has taken is not putting our collective best foot forward; especially when I re-read the OP questions and comments. We can and should do better.
You are 100% correct in saying that and with that said I completely acknowledge I am 50% of the problem. I very much get fired up over certain things that have been an ongoing problem for years and have a zero BS tolerance anymore. My apologies for this going south but I will always stand up to those who are intent on ruining everyone else’s experiences and dreams. We unfortunately have a few who by their experience or self prescribed prestige feel it necessary to constantly judge, scorn, and belittle others because they disagree with how someone else does something. For standing up to that I won’t apologize. It needs to be called out for what it is at this point as there is a very large group of members that are sick of it.
 
The question was whether the bulls were good RSA bulls not what one's opinion of hunting RSA is. I'd sure love the keyboard warriors to put their money where their mouths are and start paying for peoples hunts who cannot afford to hunt places like Moz, Zam, and the like. I'd venture a guess no one who piped up from the peanut gallery has a clue what outfitter or the size of the operation these bulls are on is. it may have been mentioned by now after two pages of belittling this guy for asking a question on a hunt he can afford or has the time to do but sure wasn't when I had read enough to know where this was going. Ya'll do more to ruin peoples hopes of getting to go on safaris by demeaning and belittling them when they ask questions, then to ensure to get those you miss do the same on their posts when they dare to post pictures with animals that YOU don't approve of. Maybe if you don't have anything constructive to add to a conversation you should show some discretion and stay out of it. I've tried to bite my lip on this issue as of late but enough is enough. Get over yourselves.
To answer your question both are fantastic bulls and yes they are a touch young however RSA is different in that the hunting is done predominantly on game farms where private management of wildlife is different than on huge hunting blocks of wilderness areas, where shooting a younger bull would be not kosher. In RSA many bulls this age are taken to reduce herd numbers, change genetics in a herd, or many different reasons.
If you trust your PH, have a good report with him, and are confident that he knows what YOUR expectations are for what you consider a good hunt; go for it. Don't let the pretentious self righteous dissuade you.
Very well said!!!!!
 
@gizmo Don't candy coat it, Erik......tell 'em how you really feel. ......I sure enjoyed your posts. I mentioned earlier that I took my Uncle Bob on a buff hunt in RSA, on a relatively small property, for a designated bull.......genetics and age required his removal.....Bob, in his 80's, had a great time and now, in his 90's is still enjoying telling friends about his buffalo hunt. And showing off the huge buff on his wall. The hunt pushed him to his limit. There is a hunt for everyone.......and to have the well healed, the wealthy, or the elitist rain on another man's dream says more about the man than it does about the buffalo. Keep telling it how you see it Erik.....having had the pleasure of hunting with you, I would expect no less...................FW Bill
lol, thanks Bill
 
I don’t think he was belittled at all. He got good advice on what to look for in a trophy and a hunt. In many of our opinions, the hunt has as much to do with the quality of the trophy as the tape measure. I would respectfully suggest that you are the one turning this into a royal pissing match.
Come on my good friends…naming the buffalos in jest is not encouraging and could easily be seen as belittling to someone who is new to buff and is just asking a question so @gizmo is not out of line with his post…was the commentary funny, yes I chuckled I could not help myself and am no hypocrites but easy to do after hunting DG for many years now of course including buff
 
Again, I don’t think you are grasping any of the points I have ever tried to make. To clarify any misunderstanding, not that I should really care at this point, I do recognize a difference between the two and they aren’t the same but. I also recognize the conservation aspect of what you call a “put and take” operation. Also, of what you think my operation is about. They both have their places in conservation but for very different reasons. You are right as a matter of principle I don’t view a DNR’s stocking of sheep back into areas they once were any different than hunting a blackbuck on my ranch (which for the record has a better than average chance of being born on the ranch as opposed to being stocked as a 1 or 2 year old nor do I have any breeding pens) or a Cape buffalo in RSA. All 3 instances are only made possible by the economic value given to them by hunters. No one else in the world foots the bill for the vast majority of wildlife conservation like hunters do. Furthermore, the animals range from their only existence all the way to their ability to remain in existence in wild areas as a result of hunting dollars in every form. That’s a fact Jack. So no I don’t distinguish between the sheep, buffalo, elephants, or a damn Sasquatch. At their root core they exist only because someone somewhere wants to hunt one by some means. I take the very vocal stance that as long as what one is doing is legal then it is none of your damn business how they do it nor do you have an actual right to judge them or belittle them for it. If they are breaking a law, sure go for it. If not, what is it if any consequence to you or anyone else.
What our entire issue between the two of us boils down to is this, and it is quite simple. You have an issue with what I do for a living and what I believe. So be it, I don’t care. Where it actually becomes an issue is when you attempt to force your views and beliefs down mine and others throats and try to proclaim your self as somehow morally superior. I got news for you, I’m not going to roll over. I will stand up for my rights and the right of others 100% of the time. I in no way feel I am superior to you or anyone else but I sure as hell am not going to tolerate self righteous BS as I’ve stated on many occasions. You have the right to your opinion and I respect that but you don’t have the right to belittle others for theirs. That’s where you and I get cross. Just say it for what it is. You disagree with your perception of my views, beliefs, and what you perceive as my business. That’s great, I don’t care. Good on ya but the rest of us don’t need smart ass remarks and snide comments over it. And YES I am guilty of being very snarky and abrasive toward you and others but only when forced to defend what I believe in or in response to someone getting on their soap box and telling the rest of us what trash we are because we dare to have a difference of opinion.
So again, I do wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart and it’s unfortunate you have a personal issue with me that we can’t get past but in the end I promise it won’t effect either of us in the least. I know I’m not going to loose sleep and I certainly hope you don’t either.
On a side note though I’d certainly be glad to buy you a beer sometime and visit with you over this or anything else. I’d also very much enjoy hearing about some of your experiences, you have gotten to do a lot of things that I unfortunately will likely never get to do due to cost and time.
I still won’t budge on standing up for what I believe in though nor will I keep my mouth shut if I feel something is out of line. If that’s a deal breaker oh well I guess.
The issue comes down to I base my decisions on the hunting experience I want. Your goals are very different than mine. I want other hunters to have the information to make the best decision for themselves. You are trying to stop that discussion. There is a major difference to me (and I expect most other hunters) between a single buffalo bull stocked into a 1000 acre pen that eats hay, a herd of only bulls on 5000 acre property stocked as young bulls, a herd that gives the appearance of a self sustaining herd with cows but is heavily supplemented with additional bulls, and a truly self sustaining herd managed on a quota on a large property. A person should know what questions to ask to get the experience they want before they spend their money. You keep trying to make this about money and criticize those who have it, but if it was spending $6k on a poor experience, $9k on a good experience, or $12k on a great experience I think a person should know what questions to ask. It will take a long time to save up again if they spend the $6k on the wrong hunt and only realized once they were there. I really don’t know your goal here at this point, but it comes off as simple jealousy and some self interest.
 
Furthermore you have no idea what offer the OP is being given. How does anyone know what the hunt will cost him and if anyone can beat it.
Case in point, prior to covid I was booked to go on a buffalo hunt is RSA with an outfitter that I have known for several years. It was going to be an outstanding hunt for the chance at some respectable bulls in very very thick cover. I was offered it for 6k all in. I booked it but Covid unfortunately cancelled it. You won’t find that anywhere outside of RSA on a publicly advertised price (and it was). I have hunted buffalo in RSA and very much enjoyed it. I would like to hunt them in Zim also but haven’t been able to as of yet. Even though I would prefer to do my next in Zim or Moz my life circumstances haven’t allowed me to do it yet. That doesn’t mean that if the right deal didn’t come along during a time that I could go for significantly less money I wouldn’t go back to RSA. I absolutely would just to get to go hunt and be I. Africa again.
I understand where you are coming from and I don’t necessarily disagree with some of what you are saying nor am I throwing stones at you specifically but…. It’s more in the manner of which many choose to say it and the pretentious attitude some on here get when something falls outside of their wheelhouse. Many in a certain group tends to pipe up on every thread they possibly find to have another opportunity to try and impress everyone else on how much of a self proclaimed great white hunter they are. It’s ridiculous and discourages a hellava lot of people new to the site that know nothing about hunting Africa other than they have always dreamed of going. They then walk away with the feeling that if RSA is their only option they are a lesser hunter for it and somehow they are doing something wrong or immoral/unethical by choosing to hunt RSA. That’s not an assumption either as I have had that exact conversation with several people over this exact issue. Not to mention you have outfitters on here than pay good money to advertise their RSA livelihoods just to have some self righteous prick crap all over it every chance they get so they can show off for their computer buddies. If I was an RSA outfitter I’d be pissed. Those throwing stones have no skin in the game nor do they contribute anything of value to these conversations no matter how much experience as a client they have had.
Stay in SA for buff on a big area with sustainable herd as I have on multiple occasions versus Zim. Did I enjoy hunting on 2 million acres no fences in Zim for one of my buff? Yes. However we hunted the same small acreage within that 7 days and no more before I took my representable buff. I would have liked to hunt multiple areas in Zim on the 2 million acres but we only hunted a small area over and over each day…same or better hunt in SA for much less…just my experience. I found it is the experience not country, fences or size of area, just my long experience
 
I don’t think he was belittled at all. He got good advice on what to look for in a trophy and a hunt. In many of our opinions, the hunt has as much to do with the quality of the trophy as the tape measure. I would respectfully suggest that you are the one turning this into a royal pissing match.
Fair enough, what started me on my soap box (I make no excuses for what I have said) had more to do with Joe’s comment about names and the snarkyness that followed that comment. Fox took offense to my first post as he and I have had several disagreements over the past and he can’t seem to get over them. I get under his skin which causes him to bark at me at which point it goes south from there.
I do apologize for hijacking the thread but I do not apologize for what I’ve said nor do I apologize for speaking out against people belittling others which is exactly what happened.
Sure I could have let it go but a few folks could have held their tongues and not made belittling comments which had absolutely nothing to do with the OP’s question.
Again if he’d asked what people think about buffalo hunting in RSA that would have been one thing but he didn’t nor anything close to that. He asked if two bulls were good bulls FOR South Africa in a thread about Buffalo in Limpopo with a South African PH he’s hunted with before. That’s a pretty specific question and in no way warrants a couple of people tripping over each other to be the first to belittle him, the outfitter, and an entire industry of which 3/4 of the sponsors of this very website belong to.
It is nothing more than the opportunity for a few to take a jab at people and a perfectly legal and ethical industry they don’t agree with. It further more added nothing constructive to the original question as asked.
If I am to blame for being considered as starting it than so be it. As Joe said, “I’d say it again”.
I do 10000% agree with your statement of the hunt being as important if not more than the animal itself. But I think the problem lies in that, that means different things to different people. I want everyone to be successful in their dreams and endeavors. I am also very happy for those who accomplish their dreams and goals, that includes people who I may disagree with their methods (provided they are not doing anything illegal) I have my line in the sand on what I will and won’t do but that doesn’t mean I’m better than anyone else. Nor does it mean that I am not happy for them if that was their goal and they accomplished it. It simply means that I wouldn’t do it but “good on ya” and I’m sure not going to belittle someone over my differences of opinion.
 
To the original OP let me please summarize what I learned when I was you…first do not let anyone in any diminish your excitement hunting your first buff!!! Super exciting!!! Second the best values will always be in SA versus anywhere else. Third, ask the right questions before you pick an outfitter. 1. How large is the acerage? 2. Are the buff self sustainable? 3. How is the hunting done…true stalking or in a blind over food areas? 4. What bulls are taken…hard boss? oldest animals? If you get satisfactory answers to these questions don’t ever let anyone ever belittle you whatsoever. My best buff yes during COVID in SA that gave me satisfactory answers to my four questions was $8,000, was an incredible experience and produced a hard boss 43 bull. My Zim hunt answered the four questions and produced a hard boss 37 bull for $13,500. I actually more enjoyed the less expensive SA hunt due to the experience not the larger buff at lower cost. Hope this helps bring all my good friends back around to the OPs posts. No disrespect to my good friends whatsoever…I just sensed the OP may be overwhelmed with all our responses.
 

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Badboymelvin wrote on BlueFlyer's profile.
Hey mate,
How are you?
Have really enjoyed reading your thread on the 416WSM... really good stuff!
Hey, I noticed that you were at the SSAA Eagle Park range... where about in Australia are you?
Just asking because l'm based in Geelong and l frequent Eagle Park a bit too.
Next time your down, let me know if you want to catch up and say hi (y)
Take care bud
Russ
Hyde Hunter wrote on MissingAfrica's profile.
may I suggest Intaba Safaris in the East Cape by Port Elizabeth, Eugene is a great guy, 2 of us will be there April 6th to April 14th. he does cull hunts(that's what I am doing) and if you go to his web site he is and offering daily fees of 200.00 and good cull prices. Thanks Jim
Everyone always thinks about the worst thing that can happen, maybe ask yourself what's the best outcome that could happen?
Very inquisitive warthogs
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Big areas means BIG ELAND BULLS!!
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