Those are nice bulls with deep swoops and good curl.
I’m not the one posting on emotion as opposed to logic. You just said yourself your entire argument is based off of YOUR mistakes in RSA. Your words not mine. Yes, I will call a spade a spade. You take the stance that you are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong and beneath you. You’re correct, this isn’t our first rodeo over this and you betcha I’ve used such phrases to describe your behavior. It is what it is.
I know what he asked. I replied, in what I think was a light hearted manner in a way that might cause him to think. If you believe that reply was rude, then I regret that perception, but I do not regret the message I was trying to convey. It certainly wasn't a dig - unless perhaps at outfitters who catalogue specific animals to be killed - I might indeed "belittle" that practice. As I noted, South Africa is a treasure to have as a hunting destination. However, one needs to exercise care - particularly for what might be a once in a lifetime experience.
The last time we had this argument you said there is no difference between US state wildlife agencies restocking areas with wild sheep that have been decimated by disease and stocking trophies in high fence areas in South Africa to allow more hunters to come through. You make your business off put and take hunting and sympathize with those in South Africa who also make it part of their business. We aren’t going to agree. I lost most respect for you the last time we had this argument and you gave that answer. Enjoy your night.
If it wasn’t for these “evil” operators in RSA there would virtually be no wildlife outside of parks there. Most wildlife was completely decimated in South Africa by the 1970’s.
If you see no difference between hunting put and take bulls and hunting bulls from self sustaining herds on sustainable quotas I think that’s a problem. Not all South African outfitter are the same. I hope people take your advice for what it’s worth.
Well Joe it’s sad that you can’t simply be happy for someone who chooses a different approach to something and is doing absolutely nothing illegal or wrong in their approach in a manner that makes it viable or affordable for them.
Again, I don’t think you are grasping any of the points I have ever tried to make. To clarify any misunderstanding, not that I should really care at this point, I do recognize a difference between the two and they aren’t the same but. I also recognize the conservation aspect of what you call a “put and take” operation. Also, of what you think my operation is about. They both have their places in conservation but for very different reasons. You are right as a matter of principle I don’t view a DNR’s stocking of sheep back into areas they once were any different than hunting a blackbuck on my ranch (which for the record has a better than average chance of being born on the ranch as opposed to being stocked as a 1 or 2 year old nor do I have any breeding pens) or a Cape buffalo in RSA. All 3 instances are only made possible by the economic value given to them by hunters. No one else in the world foots the bill for the vast majority of wildlife conservation like hunters do. Furthermore, the animals range from their only existence all the way to their ability to remain in existence in wild areas as a result of hunting dollars in every form. That’s a fact Jack. So no I don’t distinguish between the sheep, buffalo, elephants, or a damn Sasquatch. At their root core they exist only because someone somewhere wants to hunt one by some means. I take the very vocal stance that as long as what one is doing is legal then it is none of your damn business how they do it nor do you have an actual right to judge them or belittle them for it. If they are breaking a law, sure go for it. If not, what is it if any consequence to you or anyone else.
You are 100% correct in saying that and with that said I completely acknowledge I am 50% of the problem. I very much get fired up over certain things that have been an ongoing problem for years and have a zero BS tolerance anymore. My apologies for this going south but I will always stand up to those who are intent on ruining everyone else’s experiences and dreams. We unfortunately have a few who by their experience or self prescribed prestige feel it necessary to constantly judge, scorn, and belittle others because they disagree with how someone else does something. For standing up to that I won’t apologize. It needs to be called out for what it is at this point as there is a very large group of members that are sick of it.
Very well said!!!!!
lol, thanks Bill
Come on my good friends…naming the buffalos in jest is not encouraging and could easily be seen as belittling to someone who is new to buff and is just asking a question so @gizmo is not out of line with his post…was the commentary funny, yes I chuckled I could not help myself and am no hypocrites but easy to do after hunting DG for many years now of course including buff
The issue comes down to I base my decisions on the hunting experience I want. Your goals are very different than mine. I want other hunters to have the information to make the best decision for themselves. You are trying to stop that discussion. There is a major difference to me (and I expect most other hunters) between a single buffalo bull stocked into a 1000 acre pen that eats hay, a herd of only bulls on 5000 acre property stocked as young bulls, a herd that gives the appearance of a self sustaining herd with cows but is heavily supplemented with additional bulls, and a truly self sustaining herd managed on a quota on a large property. A person should know what questions to ask to get the experience they want before they spend their money. You keep trying to make this about money and criticize those who have it, but if it was spending $6k on a poor experience, $9k on a good experience, or $12k on a great experience I think a person should know what questions to ask. It will take a long time to save up again if they spend the $6k on the wrong hunt and only realized once they were there. I really don’t know your goal here at this point, but it comes off as simple jealousy and some self interest.
Stay in SA for buff on a big area with sustainable herd as I have on multiple occasions versus Zim. Did I enjoy hunting on 2 million acres no fences in Zim for one of my buff? Yes. However we hunted the same small acreage within that 7 days and no more before I took my representable buff. I would have liked to hunt multiple areas in Zim on the 2 million acres but we only hunted a small area over and over each day…same or better hunt in SA for much less…just my experience. I found it is the experience not country, fences or size of area, just my long experience
Fair enough, what started me on my soap box (I make no excuses for what I have said) had more to do with Joe’s comment about names and the snarkyness that followed that comment. Fox took offense to my first post as he and I have had several disagreements over the past and he can’t seem to get over them. I get under his skin which causes him to bark at me at which point it goes south from there.
