Krieghoff Big Five vs. Heym 88 or 89 vs. Blaser S2

[IvW]

We currently have a tie between Krieghoff and Heym at 21:21!! We need a tie breaker folks...cast your vote if you haven't done so already.

Regards,

yhc

Buy a VC

 

[yhc]

Buy a VC

IvW would you mind elaborating it a bit more? Is this just your preference and/or because they customize for you or something else?

Regards,

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I just bought a Heym 88B PH, should have it in my hands in a couple of weeks.

I still can't figure out the difference between 88B & 89B. Descriptions are exactly the same and the detail pics on the web pages are identical.

I just looked at this thread so maybe someone has already answered this question. I would say there is a major difference between the two. the 88 is built like a German rifle rugged maybe not so refined, but is extremely strongly built. The 89 is a Germans attempt to build a refined English rifle and I think they succeeded very well. Which is the strongest I believe the 88, which would I buy???? Probably the 89, which is a little more expensive. For whatever its worth, the owner of Heym shoots a 88 with an extra set of shotgun bbls. That should tell you something! Of course maybe he just hasn't tried the 89. A K-gun or Blazer S2 would never be my first choice. Of course I would feel a little more secure if a client was walking behind me with a K-gun in the African carry, which is a whole different subject!

 

[IvW]

IvW would you mind elaborating it a bit more? Is this just your preference and/or because they customize for you or something else?

Regards,

You basically get a custom built double, regulated to your preferred load, with a stock made to fit the most important part of a DR designed for DG....

Ejector, extractor, barrel length, caliber, intercepting sears or not, sighting system as preferred, extra barrel sets etc.. etc...on probably the strongest DR action available what is not to like?

Too many DR regulated for Hornady just because it is cheap and available....and shite for DG....

I do not like the cocking de-cocking device either....

At the price of a DR I would want this....

 

[Tanks]

You basically get a custom built double, regulated to your preferred load, with a stock made to fit the most important part of a DR designed for DG....

Ejector, extractor, barrel length, caliber, intercepting sears or not, sighting system as preferred, extra barrel sets etc.. etc...on probably the strongest DR action available what is not to like?

Too many DR regulated for Hornady just because it is cheap and available....and shite for DG....

I do not like the cocking de-cocking device either....

At the price of a DR I would want this....

I am not sure about the favorite load regulation, However, Heym does offer stock fitting as part of regular sales at no extra cost, and they do not have the cocking/de-cocking either and do offer most of the other features standard (ejector is standard, extractor I think you have to ask).

 

[Guépard]

What are the consequences of installing a optic on these models?

With the Blaser originally planned for that, does this have repercussions on the firing and the convergence of the barrels?

 

[IvW]

What are the consequences of installing a optic on these models?

With the Blaser originally planned for that, does this have repercussions on the firing and the convergence of the barrels?

VC will fit the mount such as for Aimpoint when they build the rifle

 

[Red Leg]

What are the consequences of installing a optic on these models?

With the Blaser originally planned for that, does this have repercussions on the firing and the convergence of the barrels?

With the S2 and optics, depending upon caliber, you get 250 meter plus capability. If you are planning on simply having a short range rifle, any of the listed will serve. If using dismountable optics to take full advantage of a .375 or 500/416 are important, then the S2 is somewhat unique.

 

[Tanks]

With the S2 and optics, depending upon caliber, you get 250 meter plus capability. If you are planning on simply having a short range rifle, any of the listed will serve. If using dismountable optics to take full advantage of a .375 or 500/416 are important, then the S2 is somewhat unique.

So, a .500 NE S2 with optics is regulated all the way to 250+ meters? I am somewhat skeptical of that. Or do you mean it turns it into a single shot rifle capable of a 250+ meter shot?

 

[Guépard]

With the S2 and optics, depending upon caliber, you get 250 meter plus capability...

Stunning !
But what about the convergence ?
If without scope a S2 rifle shoot 1,5" at 50 yard between the two barrel, what's happen with a scope ?

 

[AES]

I don't know why anyone would want to do a Blaser for a double rifle . . . just my take on it.

That said, I do see value at a price point less than $10k. The non-traditional look is off-putting. They're just so damn ugly (same thing I said about my R8 until I realized how utilitarian, reliable and well-built it was.)!

 

[spike.t]

So, a .500 NE S2 with optics is regulated all the way to 250+ meters? I am somewhat skeptical of that. Or do you mean it turns it into a single shot rifle capable of a 250+ meter shot?

It's not a 500 NE.....it's the 500/416

 

[Red Leg]

So, a .500 NE S2 with optics is regulated all the way to 250+ meters? I am somewhat skeptical of that. Or do you mean it turns it into a single shot rifle capable of a 250+ meter shot?

I assume you didn't read my post clearly or have never handled a 500/416? It is a flanged .416 - with all the capability of a .416 Rigby. My S2 shoots all calibers sub-MOA from each barrel (.375, 30-06, and 500/416). The loads are regulated to provide sub-2.5 inch 4-shot non-crossing groups (LxR/LxR) at 100 meters. I sight the right barrel 2 inches high on the target, and the second shot is within a few MOA out beyond 250 meters with all three calibers. I normally keep a red-dot on the 500/416, and have yet to take it to Africa. The .375 and 30-06 have accounted for buffalo and a whole lot of PG in Mozambique at ranges from sixty yards to nearly 250.

As I say, it is not a traditional double (of which I own several), and provides capability that can only be matched if armed with a traditional double by having a tracker lug a second scoped rifle. Lots of traditionalists hated it primarily for that very reason. I have been told on this forum by one critic who had never fired a S2 (I don't believe it was you), that I simply wasn't using a double in the "proper" way.

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa, I still have a 89 GS and had a Red 99 RS. Plus an 85 grey market M6 I brought over from Germany. Such fun. I suspect your from Boston or at least eastern MA.

GS1100 and 1100RS, very nice.
Haven't heard of the M6 Grey Market, but I'm sure it's quick.
Had a 2008 R12RT for a few years before the '06 hack.
Funny how now I have only German rifles and motorcycles...

Sorry to disappoint...not from Boston or even MA.
From Upstate NY...NY football Giants, Yankees and Rangers.
The verbiage on the plate was simply available and my wife thought it was funny.
Funny in the way that people poke fun of me not liking the Red Sox, but my screen name is BeeMaa.
Cheers.

 

[Guépard]

Stunning !
But what about the convergence ?
If without scope a S2 rifle shoot 1,5" at 50 yard between the two barrel, what's happen with a scope ?

 

[Ed Lally]

BMW developed the M1 mid-engine 2 seater to be a Ferrari beater but it was not a commercial success. Motorsports bought the engine and put it in a lowered 635 with different rims, tires transmission etc. 3 pages of options. Mine was a deep artic blue with black water buffalo Recaro seats, Becker Mexico radio and no cupholders. Catch 3rd at 75 mph and jump to 100 mph immediately. Top speed 165 and it did not take all day to get there. Sold it as my son was repeatedly doing 150 plus in a 25 year old car. Loved my M6 but loved my kid more. BeeMaa just sounds like Bimmer coming out if a Bostonian's mouth, or at least someone from the North Shore. NO INSULT intended. Sorry to diverge from the thread but I just love things German. Except my wife, she's Irish!! Ed

 

[BeeMaa]

BeeMaa just sounds like Bimmer coming out if a Bostonian's mouth, or at least someone from the North Shore. NO INSULT intended. Ed

I get it.
No offense taken.
Cheers.

 

[CJW]

Here is mine. I elected to have a non-engraved, blued receiver and single solid leaf rear sight...

View attachment 340145

I get so lost in meticulous engraving sometimes that I forget how beautiful plain nicely blued steel and nice wood can look, especially in a double.

Gorgeous rifle.

 

[Tanks]

Stunning !
But what about the convergence ?
If without scope a S2 rifle shoot 1,5" at 50 yard between the two barrel, what's happen with a scope ?

If you read his reply to me he sights in ONE barrel with the scope. Depending on the distance the second shot would be some inches off from the first shot if needed. However, most kill zones are several inches wide so it would not be an issue in my opinion. Definitely non-traditional but if it works, it works. In my case, I'd have a double and have one of the trackers carry a bolt gun if going after both DG and PG. Personally, I don't see any point in using bolt gun cartridges in a double rifle and then putting a scope on it, might as well just have a bolt gun. Then again, can't argue with success, and each to his own.

 

[One Day...]

Stunning !
But what about the convergence ?
If without scope a S2 rifle shoot 1,5" at 50 yard between the two barrel, what's happen with a scope ?

What Red Leg is discussing is a little different, but well known by the old hands...

In effect a double rifle is two rifles attached together, right? Two barrels, two firing groups, etc.

Therefore, one can use a double rifle as a double rifle ... as a single shot rifle.

The process is simple: with a scoped double rifle, one sights one barrel (ONE barrel only - generally the right (first) barrel) like one would sight a bolt rifle. What Red Leg says is that each barrel on his S2 is sub MOA, which means that if he fires 3 shots in a row from his right barrel, he gets a 1" group at 100 yd. The 500/416 being indeed in essence a rimmed .416 Rigby, i.e. it has a near 200 yard MPBR, this means that his S2 is shooting day in, day out, 2" groups at 200 yards with that one barrel. This is how one uses a double rifle as a longer range single shot rifle.

So, Red Leg's S2 continues to be a typical double rifle, grouping its TWO barrels 2.5" out to 100 yards, but his right barrel INDIVIDUALLY shoots 1" groups at 100 yards, therefore the rifle in appropriate longer range caliber - which the 500/416 is - is perfectly capable of taking a Kudu at 200 yards when it is scoped.

By the way this is not unique to S2 rifles. Any scoped double rifle can be used that way, and just like bolt rifles, some double rifles have more or less accurate barrels. In general, because they are very rigid (being soldered to another barrel), each individual barrel tend to be pretty accurate (if the crown has not be messed with to try to make the barrels shoot together).

It is actually how scoped British .375 double barrel rifles have been used by folks in the know traveling the world (India/Africa/America) with only one rifle, since the availability of scopes reliable and compact enough to be mounted on doubles. The point being that a .375 double, or now a 500/416 double, gives you truly "three" rifles in one: a hard hitting DG double rifle, and a flat shooting single shot PG rifle.

Does this help?