Is this SAKO 85 Control Round Feed

[fourfive8]

On my SAKO 85 in .375 H&H, I have a Scope with 3 turrets with no ejection issues. In an effort to help others better understand or even dispel some of the issues concerning ejection problems, I’ve posted a couple videos and my experience.

Did I just get lucky? Or is there a geometric shift or change that lends itself to a different ejection angle on a left hand SAKO 85?

Don't know. Most shooters prefer a low mounted scope. That combined with an over-sized turret cap can increase the chances. Since left handed actions should be mirror image of right handed action shouldn't be a difference. I think it is somewhat variable with the angle of ejection slightly different rifle to rifle of the same model. The caliber/cartridge may also affect the angle of ejection... long cases vs short cases, fat cases vs skinny cases, etc. The only sure way to tell is cycle the action at the range when checking for function. Do it fast and with authority as in stressed, real field conditions. For a DG rifle, that is the only way I know to proof test the cycling. Then inspect the cases to see if they have an impact dent from hitting the turret. If the angle is really high you will notice the cases hitting the scope, turret or part of the mount. Glancing blows may not be noticed and inspecting cases will be only way to tell. I would have never thought one of my Win 70s was doing it until I noticed a dent on the body near the shoulder on all the cases after doing the fast cycling test. Of course slo-mo video can reveal details of any issue. Also interesting is to do a close up slo-mo video of cartridge feeding out of magazine and into chamber during bolt cycling... it can be an eye opener! I've done it using my phone cam but you'll need three hands

 

[IvW]

The F stands for “feed”. Nothing to do with extraction.. There is no “semi” crf. An action either is or isn’t.

I do think it’s worth discussing what CRF action is best.

That said I full agree that the ejection issue is due to a design flaw. Said flaw (if your rifle has it) does limit you to what type reticle you can use. Basically just Duplex I guess.

You’ve stated before that you think the R8 is suitable for DG. What makes it ok and the Sako 85 not? If the ejection issue of the 85 is addressed. Is the R8 ok in your opinion unless it’s chambered in 458 Lott?

R8 does not have the ejection issue and is much better than Sako 85....why people would want to use rifles with known flaws for DG is beyond my comprehension....
Of course each can choose what they want I have my choices and they work without issues or modifications and have done so for many years.

Old Ford vs Chevy....or Land Rover vs Land Cruiser debate.....

You either you keep convunsing yourself it is the best just because you own one......

The video of the left hand 85 is certainly not the way it will happen in the field under dg conditions....

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

R8 does not have the ejection issue and is much better than Sako 85....why people would want to use rifles with known flaws for DG is beyond my comprehension....
Of course each can choose what they want I have my choices and they work without issues or modifications and have done so for many years.

Old Ford vs Chevy....or Land Rover vs Land Cruiser debate.....

You either you keep convunsing yourself it is the best just because you own one......

The video of the left hand 85 is certainly not the way it will happen in the field under dg conditions....

The ejection flaw is a real issue and deserves criticism. All I’m saying is that if it’s addressed then it’s a non issue.

Nobody is saying they’re the best, just that they CAN work just fine.

Also I fail to see how a CRF rifle absolutely, positively must have a full length extractor but then the R8 is ok.. Nothing much against the R8. Just saying..

 

[375Fox]

R8 does not have the ejection issue and is much better than Sako 85....why people would want to use rifles with known flaws for DG is beyond my comprehension....
Of course each can choose what they want I have my choices and they work without issues or modifications and have done so for many years.

Old Ford vs Chevy....or Land Rover vs Land Cruiser debate.....

You either you keep convunsing yourself it is the best just because you own one......

The video of the left hand 85 is certainly not the way it will happen in the field under dg conditions....

If it ejects properly at the range it will eject under field conditions. Identifying the scope issue is no different than identifying a CZ that won’t properly feed. Know your rifle before the hunt and fix it.

Still waiting on one example of personal experience you’ve had with the rifle failing that could actually add some value. But I expect you’ll continue to avoid giving any examples.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

R8 does not have the ejection issue and is much better than Sako 85....why people would want to use rifles with known flaws for DG is beyond my comprehension....
Of course each can choose what they want I have my choices and they work without issues or modifications and have done so for many years.

Old Ford vs Chevy....or Land Rover vs Land Cruiser debate.....

You either you keep convunsing yourself it is the best just because you own one......

The video of the left hand 85 is certainly not the way it will happen in the field under dg conditions....

You’re dead wrong on my account! I shot a Croc in rapid succession with my .375 H&H SAKO 85. One dead on to break the neck (behind the smile) and two in the heart and lungs. Shot from across a stream off sticks…

I have other SAKO’s and they are all great. There are also inherent problems with other brands/makes and they all seem to have some remedy… My goal here was to better understand their differences and also prove that not “All SAKO 85’s” have problems or issues. Or least demonstrate how my (LH) version functions.

Of course I own a late my model Ford diesel 4x4 that may or may not have some known issues regarding design/engineering. I certainly don’t get in and drive it to 1/2 way across country waiting for something to break and bad mouth the brand unnecessarily because “I heard something”! So, If there is a problem, I address it, if not, I don’t worry about it!

I suppose it’s in some people’s nature to shit on something because that’s what they do…

**My company truck is a 2023 Dodge, I won’t loose any sleep over it either!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Let me guess, in your estimation, “Crocodile is not considered a dangerous game animal”?

Regardless, I’ll still take my SAKO’s and Tikka’s hunting without fear of failure or problem.

I own several other brands of bolt action rifles and they are all serve different purposes. 3 are custom based on REM 700, also Browning, CZ, Winchester, Ruger.. I would share any “First hand” knowledge or experience with the AH community if I thought it could be helpful…

 

[wesheltonj]

My 2 cents. The SAKO 85 is CRF. The Remington 700 is not. The US military uses the 700 to hunt the most dangerous game known to man - another man shooting back. The CFR debate is nonsense.

The ejection problem is on some but not all Long actions the empty cases hit and dent the empty brass. Another member here found a $5 fix, if your gun has that problem.

 

[IvW]

Rotating the scope does not solve the issue..

 

[IvW]

This is part of the problem......people ask advice...advice is given and then you get shit for it.....
Sako 85 is not a true crf....
Rem 700 is the biggest piece of shit for a DG rifle ever built...I owned one and got rid of it very quickly....irrespective if the US military uses it to kill terrorists or not it aint a DG african rifle....simple....

So the problems are on some and not all? Admitted here by owners....You want to take that chance is your choice.....

I have never liked the CZ compared to a ZKK and I have not recommended them although a gunsmith can sort them out easy, many will say they are the same they are not....I own and have used ZKK for 30 years on DG no issues no short cuts to try and fix issues that dont exist....

A croc in the water is not exactly going to come barreling out the water and run you down and kill you if you wound it so please dont have any optical illusions about that.....

I personally do not know any DG PH's that use M700, Sako, Weatherby as their primary stopping rifle for elephant and buffalo.....

Most use ZKK, CZ, MAUSER, PRE 64 or doubles...Heym or Krieghoff.....

I will say again each can use what they want it is absolutely your choice if you are happy with it go for it....
I use ZKK 602 actioned rifles and have never had any issues whatsoever....but then again hard working rifles are not visting hunter rifles....

And yes I was forced to use a Sako once....without a scope in 375 H&H because the outfitter fluffed our permits.....it would dump all rounds from the mag on your feet....it was way too light for caliber....kicked like a mule....the stock was cracked behind the tang.....it was accurate.....thank God for Duct tape......

Again please use what you like it is your choice....but proven reliable rifles do exist

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Rotating the scope does not solve the issue..

yes it does

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

My 2 cents. The SAKO 85 is CRF. The Remington 700 is not. The US military uses the 700 to hunt the most dangerous game known to man - another man shooting back. The CFR debate is nonsense.

The ejection problem is on some but not all Long actions the empty cases hit and dent the empty brass. Another member here found a $5 fix, if your gun has that problem.

This isn’t even a PF vs CRF debate.. It’s about whether or not the Sako 85 is crf. And now the entire thread is going downhill

 

[Beck]

R8 does not have the ejection issue and is much better than Sako 85....why people would want to use rifles with known flaws for DG is beyond my comprehension....
Of course each can choose what they want I have my choices and they work without issues or modifications and have done so for many years.

Old Ford vs Chevy....or Land Rover vs Land Cruiser debate.....

You either you keep convunsing yourself it is the best just because you own one......

The video of the left hand 85 is certainly not the way it will happen in the field under dg conditions....

LOL - yea, because CZ rifles don't have any issues. Step one buy CZ rifle. Step two find a good gunsmith. Please note I have nothing against CZ rifles, I just bought one.

 

[IvW]

yes it does

No it does not.....it puts the scope 90 degrees out of the position it was designed to be fitted to a normal rifle....if you consider that fixing the issue that the rifle has well then good for you......try that with a German nr 4 reticle and see how that works out.....

 

[IvW]

LOL - yea, because CZ rifles don't have any issues. Step one buy CZ rifle. Step two find a good gunsmith. Please note I have nothing against CZ rifles, I just bought one.

No step 1 buy a ZKK that has not been butchered....step 2 go hunt....

 

[IvW]

In a quest to put the correct action, to include feed and extractor type, for my new .458 Lott build I’m looking to better understand actions, their feed and extractor types. It’s actually and interesting exercise. I never gave it much thought.

OP asked comments to include feed and extractor type......not only if a Sako is CRF or Pushfeed.....so forgive me if my comment regarding the massive full length extractor and camming power of a true CRF mauser type action has now somehow offended the wannabe CRF tiny extractor believers.

 

[375Fox]

This is part of the problem......people ask advice...advice is given and then you get shit for it.....
Sako 85 is not a true crf....
Rem 700 is the biggest piece of shit for a DG rifle ever built...I owned one and got rid of it very quickly....irrespective if the US military uses it to kill terrorists or not it aint a DG african rifle....simple....

So the problems are on some and not all? Admitted here by owners....You want to take that chance is your choice.....

I have never liked the CZ compared to a ZKK and I have not recommended them although a gunsmith can sort them out easy, many will say they are the same they are not....I own and have used ZKK for 30 years on DG no issues no short cuts to try and fix issues that dont exist....

A croc in the water is not exactly going to come barreling out the water and run you down and kill you if you wound it so please dont have any optical illusions about that.....

I personally do not know any DG PH's that use M700, Sako, Weatherby as their primary stopping rifle for elephant and buffalo.....

Most use ZKK, CZ, MAUSER, PRE 64 or doubles...Heym or Krieghoff.....

I will say again each can use what they want it is absolutely your choice if you are happy with it go for it....
I use ZKK 602 actioned rifles and have never had any issues whatsoever....but then again hard working rifles are not visting hunter rifles....

And yes I was forced to use a Sako once....without a scope in 375 H&H because the outfitter fluffed our permits.....it would dump all rounds from the mag on your feet....it was way too light for caliber....kicked like a mule....the stock was cracked behind the tang.....it was accurate.....thank God for Duct tape......

Again please use what you like it is your choice....but proven reliable rifles do exist

Provide some details and your “advice” won’t get questioned nearly so much. Shouldn’t be difficult for a highly experienced dangerous game PH unless . . .

Using an abused Sako camp rifle is minimal experience with rifle at best. I’ve seen a CZ 550 camp rifle with a rusted barrel. All CZs must be junk because someone didn’t clean the barrel at end of season? I’ve seen a Winchester model 70 release the floor plate during recoil. They must all be junk too? I’ve found posts where you previously called Sako 85s good rifles. What changed besides reading about some issues? Sako 85s in 375 have magazines by the way not hinged floor plates. They won’t drop the shells at your feet.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

No it does not.....it puts the scope 90 degrees out of the position it was designed to be fitted to a normal rifle....if you consider that fixing the issue that the rifle has well then good for you......try that with a German nr 4 reticle and see how that works out.....

You are correct. It does not fix the issue but it does provide a workaround rendering the issue a non issue. You’re right. Reticle does matter. A simple duplex reticle is the answer

 

[mdsalern]

The problem with Sako 85 rifles is that they were built with the extractor being the same for several calibers. In the XL action the extractor is the same for the .375 H&H, the .416/.450 Rigby, and the .500 Jeffery. The rim thicknesses for these cartridges are 0.050”, 0.065”, and 0.052”.

The ejector is in the bottom middle of the bolt and the ejection angle is changed with the varying tension of the cartridges using the same extractor. The cartridges that have a thinner rim thickness are held loosely and thus ejected more vertically.

 

[IvW]

Let me guess, in your estimation, “Crocodile is not considered a dangerous game animal”?

Regardless, I’ll still take my SAKO’s and Tikka’s hunting without fear of failure or problem.

I own several other brands of bolt action rifles and they are all serve different purposes. 3 are custom based on REM 700, also Browning, CZ, Winchester, Ruger.. I would share any “First hand” knowledge or experience with the AH community if I thought it could be helpful…

Not under normal hunting conditions no it is not....if you are a local fishing, collecting water or doing your washing in the Zambezi, Congo or anywhere crocs occur in their natural environment they are very dangerous and unpredictible.....
Shooting 1 in a dam or pond has zero danger, it only requires 1 accurate shot....
If your 375 Sako performs no problem that is great I also dont know of any issues with smaller calibers and they are very accurate...but as mentioned I would not use such an action for a dg rifle. That is just my opinion.

 

[fourfive8]

To really get to the bottom of any technical issue or rumor! with any action, you need to study and understand the mechanics in detail. Not just use anecdotal, non-evidence hearsay or one time observation of something happening or not happening then repeat a subjective opinion. Study means study in detail.

One of the best tools for this study I've found is to make use of the slo-mo video camera function available on most smart phones. Setup of camera and subject, strong but diffuse lighting and an understanding of how to use the camera for best results are all important. Viewing a detailed, good quality, in-focus slo-mo video of chambering and extraction of a case will be revealing and educational. Watching a case "porpoise" out of a magazine and then re-align itself while getting rammed forward into the chamber is instructive, especially with actions like the CZ and BRNO that have to make a relatively big porpoising leap out of the lower level of the magazine rails then back into a re-alignment as it enters the chamber. Comparing how various actions perform that same task is equally "interesting". Also, watching a slo-mo video of a case "tick" the lower edge of a scope turret upon ejection is likewise instructional and may reveal an otherwise unnoticed issue. Many times a tiny "tick" impact causes no functional issue with the ejection so goes unnoticed.