Is there such a thing as too big?

[baxterb]

I would bet dimes to doughnuts that if the early hunters had today’s bullets, very, very few would have used anything over a 416. And the vast majority nothing over a 375. If you read about what PHs used for their personal hunting, almost all are medium bores and a hell of a lot are .358s or .366s max.

 

[Tanks]

... If you read about what PHs used for their personal hunting, almost all are medium bores and a hell of a lot are .358s or .366s max.

Hmmm, that would be illegal for elephants in every country I know of, so doubt it very much.

 

[baxterb]

Hmmm, that would be illegal for elephants in every country I know of, so doubt it very much.

This is a historical reference - that’s why I said “early hunters.” I know for a fact Tony Seth Smith took several Big 5s with his mother’s .350 and .275 Rigbys.

 

[Donnstar]

I would bet dimes to doughnuts that if the early hunters had today’s bullets, very, very few would have used anything over a 416. And the vast majority nothing over a 375. If you read about what PHs used for their personal hunting, almost all are medium bores and a hell of a lot are .358s or .366s max.

7x57 accounted for many elephant

 

[Fastrig]

Big bores and being accurate are not mutually exclusive (within the 50 meter regulation standard). I don't know why people always assume so, maybe projecting their own shortcomings to others?
Now, if you wish to thread the needle between a bunch of trees at a 150 yard shot at a buffalo then go ahead with your scoped .375. Though I'd submit that is shooting not hunting.

Agree that they aren't exclusive for "some", but would have to say that the vast majority aren't anywhere near as accurate with the large big bores than they would be, with a little practice, with the the medium to smaller caliber big bores (375, 404, 416). You really don't need more than those calibers to drop anything on this planet. I'm an open sights, lever action guy so I'm with you on the "hunting" side of things, but shooting out to 150-200 yards after a good stalk isn't bad either and often times results in filling the freezer vs not doing so.

As to projections, well I've never thought that was worth exaggerating one way or the other, more important to successfully complete the hunt and get your game

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Selous (I think) was a self admitted poor marksman. He blamed this on the extensive use of 4 bore rifles in the early days of his career.
Bell used the 7mm and dry fired it all the time. He was an excellent marksman.
Gorge Rushby used a 577 for elephant, with good results.
I am not arguing one way or another, just pointing out the observations of my reading.
Before anyone tells me that bell “sniped” his elephants, he shot a lot of them at less than ten paces.

 

[Tanks]

... shooting out to 150-200 yards after a good stalk isn't bad either and often times results in filling the freezer vs not doing so.

I have hunted Elk in Wyoming where a 200 yard shot is just a chip shot, so agree with you there.

That being said, we are talking about DG hunts with big bores, longest shot I have ever taken on an elephant is 55 meters and shortest is about 18. On my upcoming hunt in August I don't expect to take any shot over 50 meters except at PG for which I will have a scoped rifle.

 

[Tanks]

...
Before anyone tells me that bell “sniped” his elephants, he shot a lot of them at less than ten paces.

For those he took at less than ten paces, did he use his 7mm as well?

 

[Wyatt Smith]

For those he took at less than ten paces, did he use his 7mm as well?

According to his book “Karamojo Safari” yes. He had a 256 Gibbs he used for his long range plains game rifle. He would often chase after an elephant on foot for up to ten miles, so he liked a light rifle. His back up elephant rifle on that safari was a ten shot 303 Lee Enfield.

 

[baxterb]

If you research it, you'll find that those overbore calibers have seriously wounded more humans than animals. Great PH stopping guns for those that can handle 'em. If you handle 'em too much, they will handle your musculature/nervous system/skeleton. No kidding. 'Have an old collection of Capstick hunting videos...there's a perfect slow-motion scene of him firing 2 shots at a huge Botswana bull elephant using a 577 (i know he liked 470 but I believe this to be true.) The muzzle blast, recoil and how it contorts his body upon pulling the trigger is quite astounding. Many have downgraded from those cannons. The same happens to archers that shoot 70+ lb bows on deer-sized game (when the 50-60ish lb models do just fine!) The price of ego, hormones and money. The swinging trunk club. All that said, many experienced hunters have settled on the .577 and claim that it's nothing like the punishment of a .600 or .700 (comparing it more to a .470-.500, which would be the top end of any big bore gun I'd shoot.) One of the first things I do when any new rifle gets set up, is that I go varmint hunting with it to practice shooting in the field. I wouldn't like to do that with a .600"+ although I might cause them to die of heart attacks or sudden extreme ear pressures...

Capstick's double was a 470 in that video. A Champlin/Famars.

And Hem's 577 was indeed a gift from Winston Guest. I am not sure he ever shot it in anger. I think it was just something he had. As I've said elsewhere, the idea he tramped across Africa with that thing on his shoulder is fiction. He was wedded to that G&H in a major way.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The word sufficient says a lot, if you have enough you dont need more. You can choose to have more, but you dont need it. The criteria for the specification of sufficient for you are enough firepower to get the job done, enough accuracy to put the bullet where it has to be and light enough for you to carry all day and actually enjoy the experience. All three, one doesnt excuse the other, just robs from the overall score. I am not young, not as strong or as fit as I was and I dont like recoil for the sake of it. So for my criteria a 375 Flanged Magnum double at just under 8 pounds is it. Add a perfect fit and now even I can hunt DG with enjoyment and confidence. My ordered Heym 89b will be sufficient, for me.

 

[Tanks]

...My ordered Heym 89b will be sufficient, for me.

When is it coming in? When I ordered my Heym 9.3x74R, they said 6 months. It should be here end of May.

 

[Fastrig]

When is it coming in? When I ordered my Heym 9.3x74R, they said 6 months. It should be here end of May.

Picked up an O/U rifle in that caliber last fall....it's fantastic.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

When is it coming in? When I ordered my Heym 9.3x74R, they said 6 months. It should be here end of May.

Probably around mid August. I ordered a very plain model, no engraving and no oxide colours, so will take less time. Also not going for scope sights, but ordered the Heym base to fit a red dot if I want to. What spec did you go for Tanks?

 

[Tanks]

I ordered an 88B with standard engraving, enhanced wood and claw mounts. I did send my scope to Heym along with the wood I had chosen from here. It will be regulated with the scope. The Heym rep in the USA threw in a Noblex III (Dokter) red dot and mount for me if I ever wanted to use it in the future.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I ordered an 88B with standard engraving, enhanced wood and claw mounts. I did send my scope to Heym along with the wood I had chosen from here. It will be regulated with the scope. The Heym rep in the USA threw in a Noblex III (Dokter) red dot and mount for me if I ever wanted to use it in the future.

I thought the 88B had been discontinued, so I was told by the agent here? Did you go for the Light frame?

 

[Tanks]

I did go for the light frame. I drove to Dallas, TX a month or so ago to get fitted for the stock. Assuming it comes in time for me to take it to my August hunt I will get the pad wrapped in leather by the same guy that does all of the leather wrapping for H&H here in the States after the hunt. He is busy working on the pad of my Heym 88B .500 NE right now (as well as adjusting the LOP a tad), should get it back in a couple of weeks.