Is there such a thing as too big?

[IvW]

And then they completely miss cape buffalo with a 500 Jeff short barrel.....

 

[Forrest Halley]

And then they completely miss cape buffalo with a 500 Jeff short barrel.....

Well if we're paying trophy fees...a complete miss is a good thing. LOL I hear what you're saying.

 

[Professor Mawla]

Personally speaking , I have never really seen the point of a .700 Nitro Express or a .600 Over Kill . This of course , is no reflection on the gentlemen who enjoy using them .

 

[Fastrig]

We all have a different hierarchy of needs (may Maslow and perhaps @BRICKBURN forgive me). I am all about minimizing the demands of international travel. In other words I hate bag drags (i.e. stupidly heavy armament or multiple rifles). I also tend to think of engagement with dangerous game as offering the choice between a broadsword and a rapier. I am all about the rapier. I have no interest in dragging something to Africa with the dimensions of an anti-tank gun or having some poor devil tote it around for me. What I am totally focused on is putting the first bullet into exactly the right spot to ensure a quick humane kill. To date, I have found nothing better than a .375 for that shot under those conditions.

I should add, I own a number of forties and shoot all of them well. I have fired 8 bores through .600's. I can shoot them all accurately. Just really don't get it. But as you say, different strokes for different folks. I wish you well.

And welcome aboard this site! You will find it for more accommodating and less abrasive than a number of others out there. And Geaux Tigers!

Well said and spot on, IMHO. Just don’t see the need for some of these portable artillery pieces people carry. Can see a PH who is standing backup carrying something in the mid-40 cal range (i.e. 458 Lott) for stopping power, but past that a 375 to 416 is plenty of gun to efficiently hunt and drop anything on this rock, if you know how to shoot (i.e. use a rapier). Instead of dropping big bucks on one of the artillery pieces, use a fraction of that coin on ammo for the your 375-416 and go to the range. You’ll have a lot of fun and get very proficient at the same time, and your shoulder will thank you as a bonus.

 

[WAB]

Well said and spot on, IMHO. Just don’t see the need for some of these portable artillery pieces people carry. Can see a PH who is standing backup carrying something in the mid-40 cal range (i.e. 458 Lott) for stopping power, but past that a 375 to 416 is plenty of gun to efficiently hunt and drop anything on this rock, if you know how to shoot (i.e. use a rapier). Instead of dropping big bucks on one of the artillery pieces, use a fraction of that coin on ammo for the your 375-416 and go to the range. You’ll have a lot of fun and get very proficient at the same time, and your shoulder will thank you as a bonus.

Fastrig, you and Joe got me thinking so I took the .375 and Lott down to the range this afternoon. As usual, they both shot extremely well. Shooting off sticks, I can put every shot close to the middle of an 8" gong at 100 yards with either. The Lott is a little lighter, simply because they both have the same barrel profile. The Lott has significantly more recoil but is easily manageable. The .375 with 300 gr A-Frames at 2,500 is so smooth, I could shoot it all day long.

At the end of the day, I can put a bullet exactly where I want it with either. I take the Lott when buffalo or elephant are on the menu simply because I like the way it hits them. The shot I took on my last buffalo should probably not be taken with a .375. With the Lott it was as if he was struck by lightning. This in no way denigrates the .375, I love mine, but I do feel more comfortable up close and personal with the Lott.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Personally I don't like finding out about bigger cartridges. At one point in my life the .30-06 was a big gun. I revered it and thought it was a thunder crash from on high compared to the lowly .22 and .223. This theory went out the window when I got into a .300 WM and it became the shorter more mild mannered shell. When the .375 H&H came on the scene it was instantly dwarfed. All of my .5.56 is in magazines or boxes so its puny size is not readily apparent. I was going through some loose cartridges the other day and thought to myself, "What in the devil is this tiny thing?" I read the head stamp, "W-W .30-06 Sprg." I was amazed at how small the sacred caliber had become to me. I should note that I have not foolishly lost respect for the power that even the smallest of .22's possess to be a life altering instrument, rather they have given me pause to marvel at their diminutive appearance. It is quite a comparison between the .22, the '06, and the Lott. They each speak to me in different ways. The .22 symbolizes learning and the potential to resolve problems quietly. The '06 symbolizes the romance of longing for fall and the power standard of my youth, but in a flicker I am reminded that it is still a liberator to be respected. The .375 is long and beautiful enough to leave you in awe with a belt attesting to the fact that it is not fooling around and can be called upon to act decisively on up to the largest game. There will always be bigger, but I don't want to look at a .375 and say, "My what a tiny cartridge!"

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

My partner's son is about to embark upon his journey as a learner PH, a full four or five years in this country. As I have related in another post, we now need to get him a rifle, and have turned over many options, including a very kind offer to bring one in from the USA which is proving impossible. As to calibre, their shooting proficiency test is so rigorous that literally hundreds of rounds, if not thousands need to be practiced with. On that score alone it has to be 375H&H, it is the only DG ammo easy enough to get here and still 'reasonable' in cost. So speaking to several PH's they all seem to converge upon 375 for the hunting phase, and later a larger double as a stopper when guiding clients. So 375 it is! CZ550 seems to be the cheapest, and adequate, notwithstanding the excellent advice on AH about smoothing the rough edges. Any additional views would be welcome.

 

[Fastrig]

Fastrig, you and Joe got me thinking so I took the .375 and Lott down to the range this afternoon. As usual, they both shot extremely well. Shooting off sticks, I can put every shot close to the middle of an 8" gong at 100 yards with either. The Lott is a little lighter, simply because they both have the same barrel profile. The Lott has significantly more recoil but is easily manageable. The .375 with 300 gr A-Frames at 2,500 is so smooth, I could shoot it all day long.

At the end of the day, I can put a bullet exactly where I want it with either. I take the Lott when buffalo or elephant are on the menu simply because I like the way it hits them. The shot I took on my last buffalo should probably not be taken with a .375. With the Lott it was as if he was struck by lightning. This in no way denigrates the .375, I love mine, but I do feel more comfortable up close and personal with the Lott.

Fastrig, you and Joe got me thinking so I took the .375 and Lott down to the range this afternoon. As usual, they both shot extremely well. Shooting off sticks, I can put every shot close to the middle of an 8" gong at 100 yards with either. The Lott is a little lighter, simply because they both have the same barrel profile. The Lott has significantly more recoil but is easily manageable. The .375 with 300 gr A-Frames at 2,500 is so smooth, I could shoot it all day long.

At the end of the day, I can put a bullet exactly where I want it with either. I take the Lott when buffalo or elephant are on the menu simply because I like the way it hits them. The shot I took on my last buffalo should probably not be taken with a .375. With the Lott it was as if he was struck by lightning. This in no way denigrates the .375, I love mine, but I do feel more comfortable up close and personal with the Lott.

It probably boils down to preference on what to use for what for all of us. I’m in Joe’s camp in that the 375 (and I’ll add the lower end 40‘s in there as well) is plenty of caliber/bullet when practiced with so that the hunter is able to make precise shot placements. Like you said, you can shoot your 375 all day (i.e. lots of practice), but while the Lott is ”manageable” I’ll bet you are done after about 10 rounds (i.e. less practice), which means you are going to be consistently more accurate with the 375 than the Lott. With any rifle you develop muscle, eye, and other physical “memory” the more you practice with it. The ultimate goal should be that the rifle (or shotgun) becomes an extension of yourself. When you get to that point you can drop anything on the planet, but that takes lots of rounds and practice to achieve. IMHO, you aren’t going to get there, at least not any time soon, with a rifle that is manageable but can with a rifle you can shoot all day.

 

[IvW]

Short answer is yes...as soon as you cannot handle the caliber/rifle combination with confidence and total competence it is too big for you.....

If it so happens that this includes the minimum caliber for a specific animal or country you have a problem....

 

[WAB]

Short answer is yes...as soon as you cannot handle the caliber/rifle combination with confidence and total competence it is too big for you.....

If it so happens that this includes the minimum caliber for a specific animal or country you have a problem....

Totally agree!

 

[RayAtkinson]

Even for cape buffalo, Hippo, elephant, I found I needed nothing more than a 416 Rem or 404, I had to use the .470, 500 N.E. and 505 Gibbs to determine the were too big for me, recoil was bothersome, return to battery was slow, packing a 15 pound gun was too much on a hot 110 degree day for 10 or more miles, just to name a few reasons, not to mention that everything I shot with my 40 calibers dies in a hurry, just like the larger rounds..The real big bores are mostly a suger tit for fear..

 

[njc110381]

I'm new here but a Veteran of several other sites and blogs...Hi fellow hunters!

Welcome to the forum. A bit of a late response but I've just come back and found a few replies since my previous comment. No offence intended by the term numb and dumb - each to their own and I have every respect for anyone who can fire these huge rifles. What I meant is a can't figure out quite how someone can take such a battering and not be bothered by it! Apologies if it come across as offensive.

 

[BeeMaa]

Not sure if you guys have seen this before...

How long does it take to develop a flinch...just one shot.
Watch the flinch when he fires the second barrel.

 

[ldmay375]

I still believe if one can and likes shooting the Big bores, carry on.
My personal use “can and likes” are the 416 Ruger and Remington.
I have a 458 Winchester and a couple of Lotts. I have not shot the 458 Winchester in quite awhile but have shot the Lotts a bit.
My 416’s, I shoot / handle pretty much as I do my 338 and 375. The Lott with 500 grains is a bit different story for me, particularly as to potential awkward shooting positions.
It simply pushes my body around more. More than I care to try in some positions that I have used my 416’s.

 

[njc110381]

Realistically I'm not sure I can see myself shooting anything much bigger than I have. My .416 Rigby rattles me. I'm at the point where I'd have the confidence to hunt with it but I know what's coming and I'm not shy of saying it's not something I look forward to! With covid my range time has also been seriously hit, I'm expecting a bit of familiarisation may be needed when I get back to it with this one.

 

[tigris115]

Watched that Midway video on the nearly perfect safari cartridge and I think the best definition of too big is something where you're constantly dreading pulling the trigger. It's gotta feel natural, like riding a bike. This is different for everyone (like Cameron Mitchell, being an absolute hunk of beef, probably has a higher threshold than say me) but I think there are more than a few cartridges that >95% of people can't fire. This is especially important for dangerous game where overthinking can be your death sentence.

 

[Fastrig]

Watched that Midway video on the nearly perfect safari cartridge and I think the best definition of too big is something where you're constantly dreading pulling the trigger. It's gotta feel natural, like riding a bike. This is different for everyone (like Cameron Mitchell, being an absolute hunk of beef, probably has a higher threshold than say me) but I think there are more than a few cartridges that >95% of people can't fire. This is especially important for dangerous game where overthinking can be your death sentence.

I'd say too many folks think bigger is going to do more good than smaller with better accuracy. I've never found that to be the case and would much rather shoot a smaller caliber very accurately than a larger bore less so. A well placed 375 H&H round with a confident follow up, if needed, is going to do better than a larger bore round not placed well with poor follow up. A 416 RM is about the limit of where I'm ever going, with a lot of practice first, and a 9.3x62/74R or 375 H&H would be my preference as I know where those rounds are going to land and can follow up without hesitation.

 

[C.W. Richter]

For me, hunting dangerous game in Africa is an experience inexorably linked to the African myth. Earnest Hemingway used a Westley Richards .577 NE and even though might not be the most practical gun, I would much rather face my buffalo or elephant with a .577 and get a little bit closer to Hemingway.

It is well documented that he used his 30-06 w/ 220 grain FMJs much more often on the big stuff. Had that .577 not been gifted to him, he'd have stuck w/ the 06 I'm sure! Not discounting his excellent writing.

 

[C.W. Richter]

If you research it, you'll find that those overbore calibers have seriously wounded more humans than animals. Great PH stopping guns for those that can handle 'em. If you handle 'em too much, they will handle your musculature/nervous system/skeleton. No kidding. 'Have an old collection of Capstick hunting videos...there's a perfect slow-motion scene of him firing 2 shots at a huge Botswana bull elephant using a 577 (i know he liked 470 but I believe this to be true.) The muzzle blast, recoil and how it contorts his body upon pulling the trigger is quite astounding. Many have downgraded from those cannons. The same happens to archers that shoot 70+ lb bows on deer-sized game (when the 50-60ish lb models do just fine!) The price of ego, hormones and money. The swinging trunk club. All that said, many experienced hunters have settled on the .577 and claim that it's nothing like the punishment of a .600 or .700 (comparing it more to a .470-.500, which would be the top end of any big bore gun I'd shoot.) One of the first things I do when any new rifle gets set up, is that I go varmint hunting with it to practice shooting in the field. I wouldn't like to do that with a .600"+ although I might cause them to die of heart attacks or sudden extreme ear pressures...

 

[Tanks]

I'd say too many folks think bigger is going to do more good than smaller with better accuracy. I've never found that to be the case and would much rather shoot a smaller caliber very accurately than a larger bore less so. A well placed 375 H&H round with a confident follow up, if needed, is going to do better than a larger bore round not placed well with poor follow up. ...

Big bores and being accurate are not mutually exclusive (within the 50 meter regulation standard). I don't know why people always assume so, maybe projecting their own shortcomings to others?
Now, if you wish to thread the needle between a bunch of trees at a 150 yard shot at a buffalo then go ahead with your scoped .375. Though I'd submit that is shooting not hunting.