Is there such a thing as too big?

[Tanks]

Ah, weekends I usually compete in USPSA. I shoot rifles (and now clays) during the week. So far no one has tried to search for me while I was shooting.

 

[njc110381]

My thoughts are that if someone is numb and dumb enough to shoot a .600 well, then why not? But for that to be true they need to follow their shot up as quickly with that as they would a smaller rifle that can do the same job.

A lot of the big bore thing is fueled by willy waving. Mine's bigger tan yours etc. Whether that's for a personal boost or to make others take an interest, there's no real need for it as such. Not from a getting the job done perspective. If I was rich I'd probably have one, I like guns and it would be a personal achievement to own one. But if I was facing down an angry animal I'm pretty sure I'd stick with my .416 because I honestly don't think I could shoot a bigger rifle very well. I might have to get a .500 or .505 bolt action one day to test that theory though!

 

[Tanks]

My thoughts are that if someone is numb and dumb enough to shoot a .600 well, then why not? But for that to be true they need to follow their shot up as quickly with that as they would a smaller rifle that can do the same job.

A lot of the big bore thing is fueled by willy waving. Mine's bigger tan yours etc. Whether that's for a personal boost or to make others take an interest, there's no real need for it as such. Not from a getting the job done perspective...

I wouldn't call someone that is shooting a .600 well numb and dumb. Some people really like big bores and if they can carry them for miles and shoot them well I am not the one to judge. I definitely am NOT going to determine someone else's needs either. Heck, an argument could be made that no one needs anything greater than a .375 H&H (as put forth by some here) but many of others feel much more comfortable with bigger calibers that they can shoot well.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Can you shoot it after carrying it all day in the sun? That is about all that matters as far as I'm concerned. (and one reason I ALWAYS put a sling on my rifles)

Of course there is a lot wrapped up in that "can you shoot it?" part. I've shot my 404 at game from sticks, from kneeling, using some kind of thorn-covered tree as a rest, and from prone. Multiple times from prone. Kind of got to liking it. Not sure I would have done it with a 460 Weatherby. Fairly sure I would not have liked it. Are you willing to take those shots? Or conversely are you willing to give up those opportunities because your gun is too much for taking those shots?

Are you willing to put in the range time? Are you happy to put in the range time? Because if you don't enjoy shooting it, it is too much gun for you.

I think if we are honest with ourselves, which is not exactly easy, we know damn well when a gun is too much for us. I know that right now, my 404 is too much gun for me. Recoil isn't the issue. I've dicked around and let myself go and I need to get in shape if I'm going to be any good with a gun in that weight class.

As far as "money hunters", I not sure it should be a point of pride to have never received professional instruction. You don't know what you don't know. And with all respect to dear old dad, I cannot think of even one person at the top of any sport who hasn't been coached by someone outside the family.

 

[Tanks]

... from prone. Multiple times from prone. Kind of got to liking it. Not sure I would have done it with a 460 Weatherby. Fairly sure I would not have liked it. Are you willing to take those shots? Or conversely are you willing to give up those opportunities because your gun is too much for taking those shots? ...

If you are going to be carrying a big bore I doubt you will be at a distance where taking shots prone would be advantageous. I sure as heck would not want to give up my mobility by taking prone shots at a cape buffalo or an elephant inside of 40-50 yards.

How many elephants or cape buffalo have you shot prone, and at what distances?

 

[Bert the Turtle]

I shot my first buffalo from prone at about 30 yards. The only cover available between me and the herd was a 2-foot high hill. Low crawled for about a half hour then laid low on the reverse slope of that hill for a good long time baking in the sun until I finally had a clear shot. I'm not particularly interested in sniping animals, but I do like to stalk them. It isn't always about steadiness for the shot.

Shot my elephant from standing off sticks at 27 yards. So much tall grass I could barely see him. Wouldn't have done much good to go prone.

 

[Tanks]

Unusual for sure, but good for you.

 

[ldmay375]

Not me, but he is a buddy of mine.
Some, definitely do use, and like the BIG ones.

I wouldn't call someone that is shooting a .600 well numb and dumb. Some people really like big bores and if they can carry them for miles and shoot them well I am not the one to judge. I definitely am NOT going to determine someone else's needs either. Heck, an argument could be made that no one needs anything greater than a .375 H&H (as put forth by some here) but many of others feel much more comfortable with bigger calibers that they can shoot well.

 

[Tanks]

Not me, but he is a buddy of mine.
Some, definitely do use, and like the BIG ones.

What is that a 4 bore?

 

[ldmay375]

Yes, it is.

What is that a 4 bore?

 

[SAFARIKIDD]

I'm new here but a Veteran of several other sites and blogs...Hi fellow hunters!
I saw on the main page by coincidence in the newer post this thread about being to big of caliber....Sure there is to Big of Caliber for some ..no denying that...if one cant afford it or the ammo that's another reason too...if your recoil conscious then one should definitely stick to what they can handle properly ...plus as you go up in caliber and cost so does the gun weight (usually) ...But as some others here seem to say us larger caliber guys (.500 and Lord forbid .600,.700 & even the Mighty 4 Bore!) are "Numb and Dumb" or "Willy Wavers" is absolutely Ludacris! I have and hunted Africa and Alaska with all of these BIG Bores ..
I am not here to boast but to see some of this is frustrating to me...and others who like their 500Jeffs..505Gibbs..577NE & 600s/700s !
I will be the first to agree that a .375HH is all that one needs for anything in Africa or Alaska...but some of us like 800hp cars and Big Nasty Rifles that kick on both ends!
I am fortunate to have had a dad that took me duck hunting and deer hunting at early age and he liked his 10ga double and his 458...so I was hitting geese with the former and turtles,nutria and deer with the 458 as a young teen...
My dreams were Alaska and Africa as many others here...Many moons later I have hunted both now 13 times and many more to go,so I hope!
I say this because now I will say my first Cape was a .458 in Tanzania and at maybe 60 yds he turned and took off...My Custom Browning .458 WM with a 450 Barnes soft caught him behind the shoulder and lodged in the skin in front of the other side shoulder and he fell and moaned and went to sleep! 45" with a broken tip! 47" if it was normal! I was hooked and many Safaris later I have taken many more with my next Big Bore a .500NE Wesley...I did notice it commanded more respect and did its job well!
Then a 505 Gibbs by Frank Wells wirh 600s at 2300fps..30 day Safari in Tanz..Buff..Hippo..Lion..Elephant and plains game and even a Guinea Fowl fell to its blast! It drilled though Buff and 2 Hippo on land and blew water splash behind one on the run to the river ...but he slid to the waters edge dead when the 600 solid drilled him!
Then the next Safari was my newly acquired Wesley .577NE..2 buff with it in less than 5 seconds...not on purpose! Thought I was shooting the same one twice as the brush was heavy...we walked up on him once we heard the moan...and then we heard the 2nd moan! What a shocker and high 5's and lots of laughter! Both fell to 750 Softs and DOA!
THEN it was time for .600s! I have/had 7 so far and another being built right now for Alaska..All weather version....900s at 2200fps easily in the Overkill version..I only shoot softs and take many buff with several of them..they actually dont bother me in the field...the bench is a different story for any of the big'un's!
For some reason my 1922 English Charles Osborn .600NE double was the kicker not to ignore..12pds but something about it made it meaner than the lighter bolt .600s..Never took that one to the Dark Continent !
So then what's next..Yep..17pd 700NE Double by Searcy...1000s at 2200fps! Took it to Wyoming and with a 1000 gr Woodleigh Softs I drilled a huge Buson walking away maybe 50 yds..hit him in the right rear flank and he dropped like Thors Hammer! We walked up and blood was glowing like a garden hose out his chest!! Amazing power....I also had AHR build me a gorgeous .700 Bolt..their first one..ot would drill telephone poles but no game !
So now I read about the Mighty 4 Bore...Got to have one so I have Ken Owen build me one and 2 years later it's done and goes to Africa 2 x..2 Buff for rocked with it..27pds with 22.5" barrels..(100 caliber..2000gr jacketed bullets at 1400fps!)Fully Deep Relief Engraved with a Mastodon (its name) and may other Jurrasic Beast and scenes! Gorgeous Killing Machine!
Ok..I know I rambled but wanted to explain that never to big..... If one has experience and no fear but yet respects it power! That all fits me..I am 5'11 and 230 in shape...I know how to handle recoil and one must learn to roll with it...Fast follow ups never a problem with practice if needed!
I have also taken several Brown Bear ..one almost 11ft with a measley 338 (3 shots at 30yds)
and another with a custom 6.5pd 36" Win 70 SS custom 500 Jeff..He was last day of a 10 day hunt and running away at maybe 80yds ..a miss and a fast follow up slowed him down..another hit but still moving...not dead and made it to the alders!
Waited awhile and went in..very sick and finished him with my 5.5" BFR revolver in 50/110..600s at 1600fps! Yes Iike hand cannons too!
So i can and will be posting more here with photos and vids...I LOVE BIG BORES as so many..Wayne at AHR knows me well as other custom Smiths...I was told he has built now 100s ..yes 100s of .600s for customers..his website shows one of my Buff with a 600 he built for me..the first buff taken with the 600 Overkill...
If any facebook guys here I highly recommend the sites BIG BORE RIFLES & BIG BORE RIFLES AFRICA...HAPPY TRAILS

 

[SAFARIKIDD]

More 4 Bore...

 

[SAFARIKIDD]

Absolutely there is...Over the years I saw so many hunters in AFrica that were more afraid of their rifle than the buff, lion, or elephant!! To start with even a 800 gr. bullet at 2200 FPS isn't going to knock a 11 ft tall, 3 ton elepant off his feet with less than a brain, spine, shot and a 375 will do the same with a brain, spine shot...A heart lung shot bids well with the 458 Lott, 505, 500 but a 577 or 600 won't do it any better. This Ive been assured of by some of the most experienced PH in Africa..

The other thing that I always consider is the return to battery, and in the short rows with a elephant or Lion upon your coming down from recoil and chambering a rifle are the most important moments of your life..I don't want to have to deal with recoil at such a moment, prefer a 416 or 458 Win., happy mediums that cover all the bases..My choice for 40 years was the 404 Jefferys, it worked, it had nostalgia and I never felt fear with that old girl in my hands..

HI RAY!
It's just like alot of things...different strokes for ....I too have seen greenhorns with esp 460 Wbys flinch and miss...its famous for that and they would have done better with a 375HH...DEAD IS DEAD...but for some of us we want the Big Hole Stoppers...Your. 404 is a worth round and is just right....as I get older I may change my mind...time will tell! Safarikidd (from AR Site)

 

[Red Leg]

We all have a different hierarchy of needs (may Maslow and perhaps @BRICKBURN forgive me). I am all about minimizing the demands of international travel. In other words I hate bag drags (i.e. stupidly heavy armament or multiple rifles). I also tend to think of engagement with dangerous game as offering the choice between a broadsword and a rapier. I am all about the rapier. I have no interest in dragging something to Africa with the dimensions of an anti-tank gun or having some poor devil tote it around for me. What I am totally focused on is putting the first bullet into exactly the right spot to ensure a quick humane kill. To date, I have found nothing better than a .375 for that shot under those conditions.

I should add, I own a number of forties and shoot all of them well. I have fired 8 bores through .600's. I can shoot them all accurately. Just really don't get it. But as you say, different strokes for different folks. I wish you well.

And welcome aboard this site! You will find it for more accommodating and less abrasive than a number of others out there. And Geaux Tigers!

 

[CBH Australia]

Can you shoot it after carrying it all day in the sun? That is about all that matters as far as I'm concerned. (and one reason I ALWAYS put a sling on my rifles)

Of course there is a lot wrapped up in that "can you shoot it?" part. I've shot my 404 at game from sticks, from kneeling, using some kind of thorn-covered tree as a rest, and from prone. Multiple times from prone. Kind of got to liking it. Not sure I would have done it with a 460 Weatherby. Fairly sure I would not have liked it. Are you willing to take those shots? Or conversely are you willing to give up those opportunities because your gun is too much for taking those shots?

Are you willing to put in the range time? Are you happy to put in the range time? Because if you don't enjoy shooting it, it is too much gun for you.

I think if we are honest with ourselves, which is not exactly easy, we know damn well when a gun is too much for us. I know that right now, my 404 is too much gun for me. Recoil isn't the issue. I've dicked around and let myself go and I need to get in shape if I'm going to be any good with a gun in that weight class.

As far as "money hunters", I not sure it should be a point of pride to have never received professional instruction. You don't know what you don't know. And with all respect to dear old dad, I cannot think of even one person at the top of any sport who hasn't been coached by someone outside the family.

Maybe my quoting a term I red has been taken the wrong way “ There are born Hunters and there are money born Hunters”

I grew you don’t know what you don’t know. I’m always open to learning too.

I’m sure though there are others that have seen people get a licence and go shoot. Maybe they don’t want to learn. In my time I’ve seen people with k gift of the gab progress in careers, get promotions or work in a specialist role because they can talk their way into it.

I’m not the best shot, not the mostly experienced hunter.
Someone wanted my son to take one of my rifles s they could go hunting. The only licensed shooter in the equation were the registered owner (me) and son who is licensed and probably doesn’t have that much experience.
Knowing the third party I’m sure he would have been an expert the moment he took possession of someone else rifle and possibly couldn’t shoot well enough or have the experience to hunt safe, in a not sure he ever killed anything so who is going to do the dirty work if he wounds it. He has the means to get a licence and guns if he wants he can ask. Few people for some help. He wanted my scuba gear too.
I’m not opposed to training but I see some people complete firearms training some get it some don’t.
We have to be open to learning to learn. If I mess a shot I try work out why. I don’t stand by and say I reckon I got it.
I guess why I am saying is there is. Difference between confidence and competence.
Shot placement and ethical hunting come first. The animal deserves respect and a quick clean death.
Again not knocking the well heeled, they deserve it but if they need training they need to recognise it. Applied to anyone,
If they don’t great, if they re more experienced great, in time they simply Will gain experience through
More hunts more opportunity.

 

[Forrest Halley]

The Ken Owens 4 Bore is beautiful in its clumsiness. It would be interesting to hold much less shoot.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Never shoot more than you can handle as well as your favorite 22 L.R.....a flinch is a flinch hunting or on the target range, don't buy the koolaide that your flinch won't follow you in the field...

Take into consideration return to battery as that can be deadly in the short rows at the last minute, and its seldom considered by even the experts today..

Use enough gun is good advise, dont' use too much gun is even better advise, use all you can shoot well...Ive shot game with all the big bores, and ended up satisfied with a 375 or 404, or .416 and the 9.3x62 suits me fine also.

 

[The_Wanderer]

@SAFARIKIDD More pics of the big bores please!

 

[RayAtkinson]

I would love to shoot an elephant with a 577 or 600, my problem is Id rather have a new Dodge one ton pickup loaded and put the rest of the money in the bank... besides Ive always been honest with myself and the 577 is the largest Ive shot, and it kicked the bejesus out of me and was too heavy for my 85 year old frame to pack all day, and gun bearers are all but a thing in the past and when it hits the fan todays gun barers hit the road with your gun!!!

 

[edward]

if you can handle and control and hit what your supposed to,then its not to big,if not,then go smaller.