Improving the 375 H&H

[Waterbuck2008]

I’m just curious as to the benefits of using a bullet heavier than 300gr in the .375 h and h?

A good question, without a doubt. The .375 with 300 grain bullets is generally considered the low end of effectiveness for buffalo, and folks would like to take advantage of heavier premium bullets at optimum velocities. I've taken buffalo with a .375 and 300 grain bullets reliably and need no more for any foreseeable international adventures, but there are plenty of much more experienced hunters who are around dangerous game way more than me who want and require edge a bullet closer to 400 trains moving closer to 2600 fps provides.

 

[Rule 303]

I’m just curious as to the benefits of using a bullet heavier than 300gr in the .375 h and h? Of course the heavier and thus longer bullet pumps up the bullets ballistic coefficient and sectional density I believe? I’m about to reload my .375 for the first time using 300gr Nosler Accubonds (bullet seconds from Midway) and THEY seem long? Just new to reloading the .375? Thanks!

Greater penetration especially on heavy built animals and hard bone. The 300 grain 375 is no slouch here but a 350 grain is better, same for a 400/410 grain 416 cal and a 450grain.

 

[Dr Ray]

If you use say a 350 grain billet are you really gaining anything ?
I asked Geoff Mcdonald (Woodleigh Bullets) if there was any advantage.
Geoff’s reply was that I should you a Woodleigh 309 grain bullet.
I suggest that the energy level must drop off by using a heavier bullet.

 

[Rule 303]

I have not done the figures but some seem to think so.

 

[Frederik]

Ivan,

I think I have the answer that you are looking for.
On Quick Load with Vithavouri powder N560 and a 350gr Woodleigh soft RN (sorry don't have rhino bullets on QL)
with case velocity of 105gr on the Improved
83gr Of N560 will give you 2395fps muzzle velocity which is perfect with your barrel time.
4459Ft/lbs of energy
Pressure is very low also 46903 psi from the max of 61989 psi. Case filling also good at 95.5%
Cartridge lenght is a bit longer 95.25mm but the action should handle it.

A 404 Jeff will beat the energy by a small marhgin at 2300fps with a 400gr but at much higher pressure. 4699ft/lbs
With SAPS it will be much easier to ream the 375 than change the barrel.

My 2cents worth of input on you project.

 

[IvW]

Ivan,

I think I have the answer that you are looking for.
On Quick Load with Vithavouri powder N560 and a 350gr Woodleigh soft RN (sorry don't have rhino bullets on QL)
with case velocity of 105gr on the Improved
83gr Of N560 will give you 2395fps muzzle velocity which is perfect with your barrel time.
4459Ft/lbs of energy
Pressure is very low also 46903 psi from the max of 61989 psi. Case filling also good at 95.5%
Cartridge lenght is a bit longer 95.25mm but the action should handle it.

A 404 Jeff will beat the energy by a small marhgin at 2300fps with a 400gr but at much higher pressure. 4699ft/lbs
With SAPS it will be much easier to ream the 375 than change the barrel.

My 2cents worth of input on you project.

Great stuff!! Thank you that looks like a very handy load and exactly what I am after.

Any chance of running the same data for the standard 375 H&H with the same bullet to compare?, many thanks.

 

[WAB]

Research some of Kevin Robertson’s work on heavy for caliber bullets. He’s a big advocate of 350 and 380 gr .375 bullets on buffalo. He states that it takes the .375 into .416 territory.

 

[fourfive8]

Energy is one of the enemies of penetration. Momentum is one of the friends of penetration.

It is momentum combined with stability combined with frontal deformation, all determine penetration.

 

[Tanks]

Research some of Kevin Robertson’s work on heavy for caliber bullets. He’s a big advocate of 350 and 380 gr .375 bullets on buffalo. He states that it takes the .375 into .416 territory.

Hmmm, I don't know about that.
350grain TSX for .375 H&H @ 2,200fps = 3,760 ft/lbs
350 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,570fps = 5,132 ft/lbs

Velocities per bullet from Choice ammunition site.

Huge difference. In both energy and momentum.

 

[Spooksar]

Hmmm, I don't know about that.
350grain TSX for .375 H&H @ 2,200fps = 3,760 ft/lbs
350 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,570fps = 5,132 ft/lbs

Velocities per bullet from Choice ammunition site.

Huge difference. In both energy and momentum.

Not a fair comparison, heavy for calibre bullet for the 375 and light for caliber bullet for the 416. Should be 350 gr verses a 450gr .

 

[grand veneur]

Hmmm, I don't know about that.
350grain TSX for .375 H&H @ 2,200fps = 3,760 ft/lbs
350 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,570fps = 5,132 ft/lbs

Velocities per bullet from Choice ammunition site.

Huge difference. In both energy and momentum.

You cannot compare bullets of the same weight but of different caliber. It's about SD , BC , ...and so on.

A correct comparison would be a bullet of 350gr or 380gr caliber 375 with a bullet of 400gr caliber 416. That can may be take the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum with a 350gr or a 380gr bullet in the territory of the 416 cartridges with their classic 400gr bullets.

 

[Tanks]

Well, the comment I was responding to was with heavy for caliber bullet the 375 was going into the 416 category. So, I used the same bullet for comparison.
But I'll play
400 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,350 fps = 4,903 ft/lbs.

Still 1,140 ft/lbs more energy than .375 with 350 grain bullets. Not even in the same zip code.

 

[grand veneur]

Well, the comment I was responding to was with heavy for caliber bullet the 375 was going into the 416 category. So, I used the same bullet for comparison.
But I'll play
400 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,350 fps = 4,903 ft/lbs.

Still 1,140 ft/lbs more energy than .375 with 350 grain bullets. Not even in the same zip code.

Energy is an abstract theoretical value , it doesn't kill. The bullet kills , and a bullet of a smaller caliber can be as efficient or even more than that of a larger caliber.

 

[crudeoildude]

come on IvW you have already made up your mind on the conversion you were just waiting for someone to validate it,??? Holy Crap go for it.LOL

 

[Tanks]

Energy is an abstract theoretical value , it doesn't kill. The bullet kills , and a bullet of a smaller caliber can be as efficient or even more than that of a larger caliber.

It is abstract, but gives a good indication hence the requirement of XXX joules for DG by agencies. For buffalo I fail to see how a smaller caliber can be more efficient when the same type of bullet is used (TSX). Are you saying a smaller diameter bullet weighing less and going at a slower velocity than a larger diameter and heavier bullet with more velocity has more terminal performance on buffalo?

 

[grand veneur]

come on IvW you have already made up your mind on the conversion you were just waiting for someone to validate it,??? Holy Crap go for it.LOL

We validate it to him !

In spite of everything , the bullets of 350gr or 380gr caliber 375 may have more potential than anticipated. Wait and see what the experience in the field brings to us. You need a sufficient muzzle velocity that these bullets can develop their potential. Whether the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum can do it without problems in all cases must also be waited for. Converting or choosing a stronger cartridge caliber 375 is certainly a good idea.

 

[grand veneur]

It is abstract, but gives a good indication hence the requirement of XXX joules for DG by agencies. For buffalo I fail to see how a smaller caliber can be more efficient when the same type of bullet is used (TSX). Are you saying a smaller diameter bullet weighing less and going at a slower velocity than a larger diameter and heavier bullet with more velocity has more terminal performance on buffalo?

We want to compare a non-classic bullet of 350gr or 380gr caliber 375 with a classic bullet of 400gr caliber 416 as used by the majority of the clients. Something else , same type of bullets , speed or so , was never mentioned. Sure , important is and remains the impact velocity which is almost the same for all big game bullets. There can be problems with the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum.

 

[Frederik]

Great stuff!! Thank you that looks like a very handy load and exactly what I am after.

Any chance of running the same data for the standard 375 H&H with the same bullet to compare?, many thanks.

Ivan, the normal 375H&H with optimal barrel time with the same 350gr Woodleigh soft around the same pressure slightly higher will have a speed of 2250fps with Norma powder 203B.

Tanks, rather compare a leadcore bullet to a leadcore bullet Barnes runs completely different because of their long bullet length I will also not advise to use a 350gr TSX in a normal H&H velocities will be too low to let the bullet open up properly.
I always find it better to use a TSX slightly lighter than the standard weight bullets a 270gr will work wonder in a H&H and that is the reason why one of my friends improved the H&H so that he could work with the 300gr TSX without worrying about pressure.

 

[WAB]

Hmmm, I don't know about that.
350grain TSX for .375 H&H @ 2,200fps = 3,760 ft/lbs
350 grain TSX for .416 Rem. @ 2,570fps = 5,132 ft/lbs

Velocities per bullet from Choice ammunition site.

Huge difference. In both energy and momentum.

Robertson was reporting on the visual effect on buffalo when shot, not calculations. I’ve only shot one buff w 350’s so I can’t comment further. I was just pointing out that Kevin has done some interesting writing on the subject that is backed up by quite a few dead buffalo.

 

[Rule 303]

Robertson was reporting on the visual effect on buffalo when shot, not calculations. I’ve only shot one buff w 350’s so I can’t comment further. I was just pointing out that Kevin has done some interesting writing on the subject that is backed up by quite a few dead buffalo.

This ^. Real world experience as opposed to book figures.