Got my first elk hunt this year - Help me pick a cartridge

[PHOENIX PHIL]

With the constraint of being limited to the choices you listed, I voted for the .30-06 option. I believe it will be more decisive than the 6.5 PRC, albeit I know lots of folks in Idaho who used the .25-06 for their first elk when they were young.

I think the -06 is also a better choice as elk hunting in big country is hard work and a heavy rifle will take it's toll.

Regarding the Raptor, @michael458 is not some gun writer promoting a bullet that he got paid to do so, nor does he have a hand in the business. I quite understand the light for caliber thinking, but that thinking applies more toward lead based bullets, particularly those that don't hold weight. The raptor will get the job done, but I would be inclined to ensure I'm getting a broadside to somewhat quartering away shot before I pulled the trigger.. The idea being to avoid big bones.

Hope you have a great hunt, elk are special.

 

[UpNorthMI]

I'd go for:
.300 Win Mag - 180 gr or .338 Win Mag 200-225 gr.

Most important, get some shooting practice in over quite a range of distances, learn your bullet drop.

Good luck on the hunt.

 

[Aaron N]

It’s funny how lighter CEB’s are gaining momentum on here in DG calibres, but that isn’t yet translating into the same thought process for smaller game.

I don’t recall anyone here using a sub 375 Raptor on medium sized game, so we don’t have any really evidence of performance. There’s no reason to believe a .30 cal Raptor shank wouldn’t go through any bone an elk could put it its way. As for meat damage, im curious if the blade shedding begins once it’s through the muscle.

 

[gizmo]

300 WM. 180 grain Barnes TTSX

What he said

 

[Daisy]

With the constraint of being limited to the choices you listed, I voted for the .30-06 option. I believe it will be more decisive than the 6.5 PRC, albeit I know lots of folks in Idaho who used the .25-06 for their first elk when they were young.

I think the -06 is also a better choice as elk hunting in big country is hard work and a heavy rifle will take it's toll.

Regarding the Raptor, @michael458 is not some gun writer promoting a bullet that he got paid to do so, nor does he have a hand in the business. I quite understand the light for caliber thinking, but that thinking applies more toward lead based bullets, particularly those that don't hold weight. The raptor will get the job done, but I would be inclined to ensure I'm getting a broadside to somewhat quartering away shot before I pulled the trigger.. The idea being to avoid big bones.

Hope you have a great hunt, elk are special.

We have talked extensively about bullet selection. He has been a big help to me!

He would be happier if I had a 458 on the list.

 

[Daisy]

It’s funny how lighter CEB’s are gaining momentum on here in DG calibres, but that isn’t yet translating into the same thought process for smaller game.

I don’t recall anyone here using a sub 375 Raptor on medium sized game, so we don’t have any really evidence of performance. There’s no reason to believe a .30 cal Raptor shank wouldn’t go through any bone an elk could put it its way. As for meat damage, im curious if the blade shedding begins once it’s through the muscle.

It’s a slow board to warm up to new things. Ha. That’s ok. I enjoy the feedback. Love all the experience.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I think most are missing or not fully understanding your choice of projectiles. With the options given, 30-06 followed by 338 with terrain dictating. Not knowing the GMU you’re hunting and my experiences in Colorado across several GMU’s I went with the 30-06.

The cartridges I’ve used on elk
257Wby - 100gr TTSX handloaded with H1000 to over

.280AI - factory 155gr Federal Terminal Ascent

.308Win - factory 165gr AB from Federal (disco) would use a 175gr Terminal Ascent now

300WM - factory 200gr Federal Terminal Ascent

.50cal - 327gr .45cal Parker MatchHunter bullet is a Havester crushed rib .50cal Sabot over Blackhorn 209 in a muzzleloader

 

[StevenQ718]

I would also not recommend the cartridge 338 Lapua Magnum either, especially not in a rifle Blaser R8. The cartridge 338 Lapua Magnum is a good cartridge, but its potential can only be realized in a rifle that is designed for it. If not, you have ultimately only a ballistic performance that is more like that of a cartridge 338 Win Mag, with the disadvantages such as flush at the muzzle and strong recoil.

My present rifle from McMillan caliber 338 Lapua Magnum. Barrel length 29 inches, overall length 51 inches, weight 15.5 lbs. It can be used for hunting, but it is not exactly an ideal rifle for carrying it for days in the field, especially in high mountains. I had before a classic hunting rifle from Heym caliber 338 Lapua Magnum. The ballistic performance was modest and that's why I preferred it for hunting a rifle caliber 340 Weatherby Magnum.

View attachment 609949

Blaser R8 in 338 Lapua is way lighter (8-9lbs).... 340 Wby is almost an obsolete caliber right now.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Blaser r8 so same stock/receiver for each.

300 winchester magnum Nosler Accubonds 180 grain. Im not a not a know it all but there is no way Id hunt an elk with a 6.5 anything.

If thats too much gun plenty of elk have fallen to a 30.06 or 308

 

[Daisy]

300 winchester magnum Nosler Accubonds 180 grain. Im not a not a know it all but there is no way Id hunt an elk with a 6.5 anything.

If thats too much gun plenty of elk have fallen to a 30.06 or 308

Thanks for the feedback. I shoot 338 all the way to 416 regularly.

 

[Green Chile]

Get the Brockman built 300 win mag in the Classifieds and call it done.

 

[michael458]

Read any post by @michael458 on here. Raptors tend to do better with smaller for caliber.

Regarding the Raptor, @michael458

OK, since I have been mentioned, I will tell you a story...............

No real comment on the 6.5 and 110 Raptor, the bullet will penetrate, do damage, and get the job done, maybe a little short on caliber, but that is me........

30/06 with 150 Raptors is dandy, plenty of penetration, will exit broadsides, destroy tissue, I might personally go with the 130 Raptor in .308 caliber..........

338 caliber 225 Raptor will far out penetrate and out perform any conventional, regardless of weight, I would like it better if it were Flat Base, not so hot on the ER (Extended Range) which is a boat tail.

.375 caliber, I don't have anything to do with that, but a Maximus is a 1st Generation Copper CNC, and they too are devastating, same as the Hammers, and punch way way above the weight class.....There is a 235 ER Raptor that also gets rave reviews as well...... still I don't care for the ER, I lean to the Flat Base side............

Lighter for Caliber Raptors far out perform both in trauma inflicted, and penetration than nearly all if not all the heavy Conventional Premiums in caliber. You must understand the way they work/behave once terminal penetration begins to understand why. If you have never tested or used them in the field, you tend to fall back on what you have been taught for the last 100 years, and lean towards your conventional teachings. There is nothing Conventional about Raptors, Maximus, or Hammers, they do not perform in conventional ways.........

He would be happier if I had a 458 on the list.

Well of course that would be much better.......

Last year I have a friend that has a 458 B&M and has used it extensively in Africa for everything you can imagine and then a few more........ Lion, elephant, buffalo, hippo, numerous plains game and so forth......... My pal is NOT A SHOOTER or Hand Loader, I have loaded his ammo, set up scopes on his rifles, and done most of this for him for several years....... He is a good shooter however, and hits what he needs to.

He contacted me, asking what cartridge, rifle and so forth he needed for Elk and combination Bison hunt he was going on, he was asking about 338, 300 WInchester and so forth, I was thinking what bullets and what have you. As we talked I asked about the range for elk, he informed me his guide told him probably around 200 yards would have been average for where he was going...............

I told him his 458 B&M was more than capable of that, with the 250 Socom Raptors...... which he had used extensively in the past. And for the Bison I was sure we could get the 325 #13 Solids same POI or close, since I was sure Bison would not be beyond 50 yards or so.......... He wanted a little more scope than his 1X4 Nikon, so we found a 2.5X10 Nikon for him......... he sent rifle, scope and brass...........

I set the rifle up, sighted in with the 250 Socom Raptors and then started looking for the Bison Bullet, the 325 Solids were not close enough POI, so I tried a few other things and not having much luck, until I noticed I had some 250 gr Lehigh Extremes.......... Loaded the same load as the 250 Socom, both bullets running 2900 fps in his 19 inch gun, and 1 inch difference in POI @50 yards..... I explained this to him and sent him on his way.........

I had plenty of field experience with the 250 Socom Raptor, but none with the Lehigh Extremes for the Bison, however, extensive test work here showed me the Lehigh would do the job, penetrate and cause trauma, but heavy to the penetration side.........

After the hunt I got the word;

Michael- yes I’m very pleased with the rifle. Those in camp had never seen anything like it.
Ek- dropped him w one shot w 250 SOCOM. Put an insurance in to be safe.
Bison- Lehigh one shot. That bullet is lethal.

My guy is not a bullet digger, and that is about as much as I got on the report....... also need to teach him some photo etiquette concerning getting his rifle in the photo properly.... LOL

Now, you don't have to have a 458 B&M to do the same, results would have been the same with 458 Winchester or 458 Lott, or any other larger capacity 458 caliber cartridge............

The Bullet Does all the Heavy Lifting............. Choose Wisely.......................

 

[revturbo9967]

I’m taking a 300 wm with 200 gr Barnes LRX in October for elk. 30-06 would be my first choice you listed

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Aren't lighter bullets more susceptible to wind drift? Yes! Just another reason to go with heavy bullets.

@Daisy you started this thread looking for confirmation on a variety of calibers, all with relatively light weights and an eclectic assortment. Many, very experienced elk hunters have responded and told you what has worked for them and given a gentle "thumbs down" to your bullet selections. When a few folks have given you more detailed, wise, sage advice, your response has been, "I don't want to get into a bullet debate."

It's a free world and there are lots of bullets and calibers to choose from. It's your hunt, so pick whatever bullet you want and go hunting.

 

[HankBuck]

Where are you hunting? State and terrain.
Time of year? I voted 30-06 - that 150gr raptor will be perfect from 40 up to 400 yards.

@dchum - I’m also a big fan of the .30-06 for Elk and All North American game but prefer the 180 gr in a well constructed bullet for anything larger then deer. The very slight additional bullet drop is meaningless. But that’s just my Nonexpert opinion…and believe bullet placement is the main thing matters

 

[HankBuck]

OK, since I have been mentioned, I will tell you a story...............

No real comment on the 6.5 and 110 Raptor, the bullet will penetrate, do damage, and get the job done, maybe a little short on caliber, but that is me........

30/06 with 150 Raptors is dandy, plenty of penetration, will exit broadsides, destroy tissue, I might personally go with the 130 Raptor in .308 caliber..........

338 caliber 225 Raptor will far out penetrate and out perform any conventional, regardless of weight, I would like it better if it were Flat Base, not so hot on the ER (Extended Range) which is a boat tail.

.375 caliber, I don't have anything to do with that, but a Maximus is a 1st Generation Copper CNC, and they too are devastating, same as the Hammers, and punch way way above the weight class.....There is a 235 ER Raptor that also gets rave reviews as well...... still I don't care for the ER, I lean to the Flat Base side............

Lighter for Caliber Raptors far out perform both in trauma inflicted, and penetration than nearly all if not all the heavy Conventional Premiums in caliber. You must understand the way they work/behave once terminal penetration begins to understand why. If you have never tested or used them in the field, you tend to fall back on what you have been taught for the last 100 years, and lean towards your conventional teachings. There is nothing Conventional about Raptors, Maximus, or Hammers, they do not perform in conventional ways.........

He would be happier if I had a 458 on the list.

Well of course that would be much better.......

Last year I have a friend that has a 458 B&M and has used it extensively in Africa for everything you can imagine and then a few more........ Lion, elephant, buffalo, hippo, numerous plains game and so forth......... My pal is NOT A SHOOTER or Hand Loader, I have loaded his ammo, set up scopes on his rifles, and done most of this for him for several years....... He is a good shooter however, and hits what he needs to.

He contacted me, asking what cartridge, rifle and so forth he needed for Elk and combination Bison hunt he was going on, he was asking about 338, 300 WInchester and so forth, I was thinking what bullets and what have you. As we talked I asked about the range for elk, he informed me his guide told him probably around 200 yards would have been average for where he was going...............

I told him his 458 B&M was more than capable of that, with the 250 Socom Raptors...... which he had used extensively in the past. And for the Bison I was sure we could get the 325 #13 Solids same POI or close, since I was sure Bison would not be beyond 50 yards or so.......... He wanted a little more scope than his 1X4 Nikon, so we found a 2.5X10 Nikon for him......... he sent rifle, scope and brass...........

I set the rifle up, sighted in with the 250 Socom Raptors and then started looking for the Bison Bullet, the 325 Solids were not close enough POI, so I tried a few other things and not having much luck, until I noticed I had some 250 gr Lehigh Extremes.......... Loaded the same load as the 250 Socom, both bullets running 2900 fps in his 19 inch gun, and 1 inch difference in POI @50 yards..... I explained this to him and sent him on his way.........

I had plenty of field experience with the 250 Socom Raptor, but none with the Lehigh Extremes for the Bison, however, extensive test work here showed me the Lehigh would do the job, penetrate and cause trauma, but heavy to the penetration side.........

After the hunt I got the word;

Michael- yes I’m very pleased with the rifle. Those in camp had never seen anything like it.
Ek- dropped him w one shot w 250 SOCOM. Put an insurance in to be safe.
Bison- Lehigh one shot. That bullet is lethal.

My guy is not a bullet digger, and that is about as much as I got on the report....... also need to teach him some photo etiquette concerning getting his rifle in the photo properly.... LOL

View attachment 610087

View attachment 610086

Now, you don't have to have a 458 B&M to do the same, results would have been the same with 458 Winchester or 458 Lott, or any other larger capacity 458 caliber cartridge............

The Bullet Does all the Heavy Lifting............. Choose Wisely.......................

@michael458 - you won me over (almost) on paragraph 6 where you wrote “if not familiar with light for caliber bullets - you tend to revert to what’s worked for the last 100 years etc..”. One of the better explanations posted here for “why” newer bullets and calibers might “might” be worth a try. On the other end of that logic - is me, old, grumpy, and always approaching things with “if it’s worked for 100 years - there’s a reason and No real “need” to change”. But, at least YOU got me to “thinking”….Not changing but “thinking” and I compliment you for that !!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@michael458 - But, at least YOU got me to “thinking”….

It's a miracle!!!!

 

[michael458]

Not changing but “thinking” and I compliment you for that !!

That is a great compliment, thank you very much, it is appreciated.......

Here is the deal, I don't care if anyone changes bullets or not, there are many great conventionals, I know, I used to use them myself, I have shot a heap of tonnage with Swift A Frames, Barnest TSX, Woodleighs, and more.......... In the beginning of Generation 1 Copper CNC HPs, I had a hard time buying into these as well....... "Loose Weight, petals break off, goes against Conventional Wisdom", but every test, bar none, I was getting more trauma inflicted in the test medium, and getting deeper penetration, with light for caliber bullets?............. How is this possible, Conventional Wisdom says this just cannot be!

Take the example above, a 250 gr .458 Caliber bullet, just knocking that elk down to the dirt, DRT, and I am sure it exited as well......... Who ever heard of a 250 gr 458 caliber bullet being able to do that? Not before Raptors........... I have shot serious tonnage of critters with the 250 Socom, including Hippo and Buffalo...... Hippo really does not count, brain shot 100 yards from the water mind you, on the dirt, the buffalo the base of the bullet was found on the far side, same as a 500 Swift from 458 Lott........ But all zebra, wildebeest, oryx and others, exit and all DRT..... massive trauma inflicted.....

Another friend took the biggest moose ever shot (in my eyes anyway) with the 250 Socom and 458 B&M at over 250 yards, DRT on the spot, exit broadside, insurance shot, exited as well, DRT Moose......

I have been loading friends up with 100 Raptors in 308 Winchester and 300 BLK for years, well over a 100-125 deer taken, pigs, bear and probably more....... Incredible performance, most all DRT, the longest a deer went was 5 steps that I am aware of, no bullets have been recovered, but not all my guys are bullet diggers either, but most reports have been exits that I heard about........even 300 lb NC Bear......... also DRT by a young man 8 yrs old and 300 BLK........

Raptors and Generation 1 CNC bullets do not behave in conventional manners....... In the beginning we called them Non-Cons......... for Non-Conventional.

@Daisy bullet choices in the beginning of this thread for various cartridges are more than adequate, and most of them superior to any conventional Barnes, Swift or others mentioned, when it comes to trauma inflicted and penetration, even at lighter weights............ Yeah, I know, its a hard pill to swallow, and even I had a hard time in the beginning back in 2009 when I started with them. I don't expect anyone to Swallow the Pill, but if you do, it will open your eyes..........

 

[Daisy]

Aren't lighter bullets more susceptible to wind drift? Yes! Just another reason to go with heavy bullets.

@Daisy you started this thread looking for confirmation on a variety of calibers, all with relatively light weights and an eclectic assortment. Many, very experienced elk hunters have responded and told you what has worked for them and given a gentle "thumbs down" to your bullet selections. When a few folks have given you more detailed, wise, sage advice, your response has been, "I don't want to get into a bullet debate."

It's a free world and there are lots of bullets and calibers to choose from. It's your hunt, so pick whatever bullet you want and go hunting.

I appreciate their experience. I’ll stick with my plan.

 

[Daisy]

That is a great compliment, thank you very much, it is appreciated.......

Here is the deal, I don't care if anyone changes bullets or not, there are many great conventionals, I know, I used to use them myself, I have shot a heap of tonnage with Swift A Frames, Barnest TSX, Woodleighs, and more.......... In the beginning of Generation 1 Copper CNC HPs, I had a hard time buying into these as well....... "Loose Weight, petals break off, goes against Conventional Wisdom", but every test, bar none, I was getting more trauma inflicted in the test medium, and getting deeper penetration, with light for caliber bullets?............. How is this possible, Conventional Wisdom says this just cannot be!

Take the example above, a 250 gr .458 Caliber bullet, just knocking that elk down to the dirt, DRT, and I am sure it exited as well......... Who ever heard of a 250 gr 458 caliber bullet being able to do that? Not before Raptors........... I have shot serious tonnage of critters with the 250 Socom, including Hippo and Buffalo...... Hippo really does not count, brain shot 100 yards from the water mind you, on the dirt, the buffalo the base of the bullet was found on the far side, same as a 500 Swift from 458 Lott........ But all zebra, wildebeest, oryx and others, exit and all DRT..... massive trauma inflicted.....

Another friend took the biggest moose ever shot (in my eyes anyway) with the 250 Socom and 458 B&M at over 250 yards, DRT on the spot, exit broadside, insurance shot, exited as well, DRT Moose......

I have been loading friends up with 100 Raptors in 308 Winchester and 300 BLK for years, well over a 100-125 deer taken, pigs, bear and probably more....... Incredible performance, most all DRT, the longest a deer went was 5 steps that I am aware of, no bullets have been recovered, but not all my guys are bullet diggers either, but most reports have been exits that I heard about........even 300 lb NC Bear......... also DRT by a young man 8 yrs old and 300 BLK........

Raptors and Generation 1 CNC bullets do not behave in conventional manners....... In the beginning we called them Non-Cons......... for Non-Conventional.

@Daisy bullet choices in the beginning of this thread for various cartridges are more than adequate, and most of them superior to any conventional Barnes, Swift or others mentioned, when it comes to trauma inflicted and penetration, even at lighter weights............ Yeah, I know, its a hard pill to swallow, and even I had a hard time in the beginning back in 2009 when I started with them. I don't expect anyone to Swallow the Pill, but if you do, it will open your eyes..........

Thanks my man. I’m a believer. I’ll post my experiences (good or bad) after elk and black bear this year and Buffalo and eland (plus others) next year.