Good Gun Deals This Week

[rookhawk]

JOHN RIGBY & Co. - Big Game PH - NEU -

Professional Hunter, Repetierer im Kaliber .416 Rigby (auch im Kaliber .450 Rigby) Hersteller: JOHN RIGBY & Co., London Serien-Nr. System Mauser 98 Kaliber: .416 Rigby Lauf...

www.classicshooting.ch

Ask is about $9k USD - I think this is pretty undervalued compared to what GunsInternational, etc, has for similar rifles.

Once the duty, export, import, shipping, and last mile costs to your FFL are added in, you'll find you're able to buy it inside the US for less.

 

[VertigoBE]

Once the duty, export, import, shipping, and last mile costs to your FFL are added in, you'll find you're able to buy it inside the US for less.

And it mentions “neuwaffe” or new gun. Quite sure if you contact them, it will have sold years ago, or the price is incorrect.

 

[jpr9954]

I stumbled across this yesterday. Four Winchester Model 70 SCs, Safari Express Grade w/original box, unfired, in calibers .338 Win, .416 Rem, .458 Win Mag, and .470 Capstick are up for auction in Minnesota on March 30th. It appears to be an estate auction. They are part of a limited edition "Big 5" Safari Classic run by US Repeating Arms and come with factory letters.

Current bids on each of them is around $30-40. I will not be bidding on them as they are much too fancy for me but thought someone might want them for a collection.

.470 Capstick

.416 Remington

.458 Winchester Magnum

.338 Winchester Magnum

 

[woodsman1991]

Several nice rifles at that auction, I'll be keeping an eye on it.

 

[rookhawk]

I stumbled across this yesterday. Four Winchester Model 70 SCs, Safari Express Grade w/original box, unfired, in calibers .338 Win, .416 Rem, .458 Win Mag, and .470 Capstick are up for auction in Minnesota on March 30th. It appears to be an estate auction. They are part of a limited edition "Big 5" Safari Classic run by US Repeating Arms and come with factory letters.

Current bids on each of them is around $30-40. I will not be bidding on them as they are much too fancy for me but thought someone might want them for a collection.

.470 Capstick
View attachment 594604

.416 Remington
View attachment 594605

.458 Winchester Magnum
View attachment 594606

.338 Winchester Magnum
View attachment 594607

I hate these guns, friends. Let me explain why so you can shop accordingly. (Or completely disagree with my appraisal)

Two types of collectors in this world: 1.) The global/european collector viewpoint, that includes custom fine American guns from the likes of Griffin & Howe, Sedgley, Hoffman, etc. 2.) The American Colt / Winchester / Browning collector.

The American collector mentality collects things that generally speaking, are fairly common, often made in quantities of 100s of thousands originally. The rarity and collector value (the scarcity) comes from it being 100% original, untouched by human hands, with its handtags, in its original box with papers, never fired, never serviced, immaculate. It's the original condition that drives virtually all of the value. These types of collectors encourage firearm art forgery, crime does pay, there are experts working to make decieve buyers into the 100% originality of guns that were actually reworked, and the price difference can be 95% of value between original and restored.

The other collector type is buying fine guns that by their nature being made in Europe or custom shops in America, was sent back for service every year of its life. It's present value is based on its serviced condition, not its originality. As such, you cannot really be screwed by buying a lovingly cared for Purdey or Holland that was sent back for reblacking furniture one decade, for a bit more oil finish the next decade, reblack barrels the next decade, etc. If serviced lovingly, the depreciation is minimal. There is no value in an art forger working in earnest to give the illusion of 100% original condition because it doesn't matter enough to try.

How this pans out with the guns above: They are wall hangers, because any use whatsoever will dramatically effect their value, any restoration to fix wear further destroys their value. You're not buying the guns, you're buying their mint-condition that erodes even being bumped in a safe.

I never recommend paying big money for post-62 brownings and post-64 winchester commemoratives or special editions. Touching them kills value dramatically.

 

[RR 314]

I agree that there is generally not much collectable about limited run "collector series" modern rifles. That being stated, if you could pick one up in a chambering that you would use, for say $2500 or so, I think that would be a solid purchase. I didn't look at what the auction fees are etc., but I would treat the value as not much more than $2500 per rifle. I could be wrong. In the auction setting there may be someone who insists on owning the entire set and that can drive price up. . . .especially on the last one in the set to come across the block.

 

[rookhawk]

I agree that there is generally not much collectable about limited run "collector series" modern rifles. That being stated, if you could pick one up in a chambering that you would use, for say $2500 or so, I think that would be a solid purchase. I didn't look at what the auction fees are etc., but I would treat the value as not much more than $2500 per rifle. I could be wrong. In the auction setting there may be someone who insists on owning the entire set and that can drive price up. . . .especially on the last one in the set to come across the block.

Another consideration with these types of guns is the fake engraving. Its really just a light wash over the gun. If used as the weapon it was intended, it will look awful in fairly quick order.

Of course price is always key. If someone can get it for a bargain as such that they don't care about destroying its value, then so be it. I'd encourage potential bidders to look at their blue book value in 100% condition (they will probably sell for more than that after fees) and then look at their value in 80%-90% condition. That will forecast what they are worth after a little bit of use, a hell of a lot of depreciation if treated as arms rather than unused art.

 

[Red Leg]

I hate these guns, friends. Let me explain why so you can shop accordingly. (Or completely disagree with my appraisal)

Two types of collectors in this world: 1.) The global/european collector viewpoint, that includes custom fine American guns from the likes of Griffin & Howe, Sedgley, Hoffman, etc. 2.) The American Colt / Winchester / Browning collector.

The American collector mentality collects things that generally speaking, are fairly common, often made in quantities of 100s of thousands originally. The rarity and collector value (the scarcity) comes from it being 100% original, untouched by human hands, with its handtags, in its original box with papers, never fired, never serviced, immaculate. It's the original condition that drives virtually all of the value. These types of collectors encourage firearm art forgery, crime does pay, there are experts working to make decieve buyers into the 100% originality of guns that were actually reworked, and the price difference can be 95% of value between original and restored.

The other collector type is buying fine guns that by their nature being made in Europe or custom shops in America, was sent back for service every year of its life. It's present value is based on its serviced condition, not its originality. As such, you cannot really be screwed by buying a lovingly cared for Purdey or Holland that was sent back for reblacking furniture one decade, for a bit more oil finish the next decade, reblack barrels the next decade, etc. If serviced lovingly, the depreciation is minimal. There is no value in an art forger working in earnest to give the illusion of 100% original condition because it doesn't matter enough to try.

How this pans out with the guns above: They are wall hangers, because any use whatsoever will dramatically effect their value, any restoration to fix wear further destroys their value. You're not buying the guns, you're buying their mint-condition that erodes even being bumped in a safe.

I never recommend paying big money for post-62 brownings and post-64 winchester commemoratives or special editions. Touching them kills value dramatically.

Absolutely! Collecting American production firearms has more in common with coin and stamp collecting than anything to do with fine firearms.

 

[HankBuck]

I hate these guns, friends. Let me explain why so you can shop accordingly. (Or completely disagree with my appraisal)

Two types of collectors in this world: 1.) The global/european collector viewpoint, that includes custom fine American guns from the likes of Griffin & Howe, Sedgley, Hoffman, etc. 2.) The American Colt / Winchester / Browning collector.

The American collector mentality collects things that generally speaking, are fairly common, often made in quantities of 100s of thousands originally. The rarity and collector value (the scarcity) comes from it being 100% original, untouched by human hands, with its handtags, in its original box with papers, never fired, never serviced, immaculate. It's the original condition that drives virtually all of the value. These types of collectors encourage firearm art forgery, crime does pay, there are experts working to make decieve buyers into the 100% originality of guns that were actually reworked, and the price difference can be 95% of value between original and restored.

The other collector type is buying fine guns that by their nature being made in Europe or custom shops in America, was sent back for service every year of its life. It's present value is based on its serviced condition, not its originality. As such, you cannot really be screwed by buying a lovingly cared for Purdey or Holland that was sent back for reblacking furniture one decade, for a bit more oil finish the next decade, reblack barrels the next decade, etc. If serviced lovingly, the depreciation is minimal. There is no value in an art forger working in earnest to give the illusion of 100% original condition because it doesn't matter enough to try.

How this pans out with the guns above: They are wall hangers, because any use whatsoever will dramatically effect their value, any restoration to fix wear further destroys their value. You're not buying the guns, you're buying their mint-condition that erodes even being bumped in a safe.

I never recommend paying big money for post-62 brownings and post-64 winchester commemoratives or special editions. Touching them kills value dramatically.

ROOKHAWK: Scarcity & History drives up prices and the quality of the firearm is only one factor. Even if a gun was made in the “millions” - if only a few remain they have a high value to some people. A gun carried by General Patton or even John Wayne in a movie is worth more then many of the worlds finest “quality” firearms —- I may not agree with it but resale prices at auctions will verify my assertion. You make a very interesting distinction between American & European collectors and it sounds Like it is true. Another aspect of collecting firearms - guns used in notorious crimes sell for extreme prices (Jack Ruby’s .38 used on Lee Harvey Oswald etc..). Collectors want to own a part of History as much as a rare & quality firearms. You’re right in that there are many types of Collectors and maybe more the just two.

 

[rookhawk]

ROOKHAWK: Scarcity & History drives up prices and the quality of the firearm is only one factor. Even if a gun was made in the “millions” - if only a few remain they have a high value to some people. A gun carried by General Patton or even John Wayne in a movie is worth more then many of the worlds finest “quality” firearms —- I may not agree with it but resale prices at auctions will verify my assertion. You make a very interesting distinction between American & European collectors and it sounds Like it is true. Another aspect of collecting firearms - guns used in notorious crimes sell for extreme prices (Jack Ruby’s .38 used on Lee Harvey Oswald etc..). Collectors want to own a part of History as much as a rare & quality firearms. You’re right in that there are many types of Collectors and maybe more the just two.

@HankBuck what you are describing is provenance and infamy. I've found that if you buy fine guns and dig deep enough, provenance is dime a dozen and ubiquitous. Some examples of no-value differentials I've owned:

-The Nawab of Rampur's best 20bore auto-opening, single selective trigger, ejector. Its value was as a best gun. Naturally, anyone that could have afforded it new would be of similar financial stature.

-Elliot Richardson's Beretta 12 bore. Held more cabinet posts than any person in US history. The gun was still worth just $3000.

-Le Marchant's take-down 318 WR. Its a novelty that I have pictures of me hunting on safari at the fort he was stationed with that gun more than a century earlier. It's still just a 318 takedown.

Amateur collectors often get starstruck by provenance not realizing it is everywhere.

The other scenario is infamy. The buyers of these pieces may not even be "gun or fine art collectors" at all. Patton's revolvers, JWB's pistol that killed Lincoln, an oil on canvas created by Hitler, etc. The quality or value of the object itself is a rounding error of zero whereas the infamy or historical significance is literally the entirety of the story. For this reason, condition hardly matters at all, its all about the story. Not to be macabre, but I assure you if the sawed up, then buried and rusty remains of the gun Hemmingway killed himself with would be worth 6-7 figures, even though the object itself would be otherwise worthless.

So ignoring the first category of provenance which I've established matters little to none, and acknowledging history and infamy is the entirety of the value in the latter cases, we're back to the two collector mindsets I initially described in a prior post.

My concern amongst friends and neighbors like all the folks on AH, is that the "collectibles" in mint condition mindset of the American collector isn't stable. Members of my family were collectibles dealers for years and all types they sold have ultimately depreciated over time. This could be a beanie baby, or a baseball card, or a limited edition elvis plate, or commemorative coins. Same story as a "john wayne edition" post-64 winchester lever gun.

Buying collectibles that must remain mint to be of value isn't fun, because its not functional art that can be enjoyed. It also isn't a stable investment because all roads lead to near zero value. There is a day of reckoning approaching for the collectors of brownings, for example, Almost every one I see is new in box and I don't meet many top wage earners (those under 55) that are excited to buy a bunch of these quite common collectibles.

On the other hand, what is the global supply of pre-war Griffin & Howe rifles in good condition? The number goes down every day through wear and tear. Their replacement costs continue to grow. The amount of artisans alive that could duplicate them is slim. Careful use and enjoyment of the "art" does virtually nothing to diminish its value.

 

[Red Leg]

My concern amongst friends and neighbors like all the folks on AH, is that the "collectibles" in mint condition mindset of the American collector isn't stable. Members of my family were collectibles dealers for years and all types they sold have ultimately depreciated over time. This could be a beanie baby, or a baseball card, or a limited edition elvis plate, or commemorative coins. Same story as a "john wayne edition" post-64 winchester lever gun.

Buying collectibles that must remain mint to be of value isn't fun, because its not functional art that can be enjoyed. It also isn't a stable investment because all roads lead to near zero value. There is a day of reckoning approaching for the collectors of brownings, for example, Almost every one I see is new in box and I don't meet many top wage earners (those under 55) that are excited to buy a bunch of these quite common collectibles.

On the other hand, what is the global supply of pre-war Griffin & Howe rifles in good condition? The number goes down every day through wear and tear. Their replacement costs continue to grow. The amount of artisans alive that could duplicate them is slim. Careful use and enjoyment of the "art" does virtually nothing to diminish its value.

Really well said, and I could not agree more. Was at an acquaintances home for drinks following a quail hunt earlier this year. He began pulling out his boxed commemorative Model 94 Winchesters, and explaining what an investment they represented to him. All I could think of was what that total cost of investment placed into a couple of period Rigby's or, as you suggest, G&H rifles, would have represented as both an enjoyable "collection" and an asset far surer to appreciate.

The worst current examples are perhaps the Boddington specials. Though the bloom seems to have worn off that particular rose pretty quickly.

 

[HankBuck]

@HankBuck what you are describing is provenance and infamy. I've found that if you buy fine guns and dig deep enough, provenance is dime a dozen and ubiquitous. Some examples of no-value differentials I've owned:

-The Nawab of Rampur's best 20bore auto-opening, single selective trigger, ejector. Its value was as a best gun. Naturally, anyone that could have afforded it new would be of similar financial stature.

-Elliot Richardson's Beretta 12 bore. Held more cabinet posts than any person in US history. The gun was still worth just $3000.

-Le Marchant's take-down 318 WR. Its a novelty that I have pictures of me hunting on safari at the fort he was stationed with that gun more than a century earlier. It's still just a 318 takedown.

Amateur collectors often get starstruck by provenance not realizing it is everywhere.

The other scenario is infamy. The buyers of these pieces may not even be "gun or fine art collectors" at all. Patton's revolvers, JWB's pistol that killed Lincoln, an oil on canvas created by Hitler, etc. The quality or value of the object itself is a rounding error of zero whereas the infamy or historical significance is literally the entirety of the story. For this reason, condition hardly matters at all, its all about the story. Not to be macabre, but I assure you if the sawed up, then buried and rusty remains of the gun Hemmingway killed himself with would be worth 6-7 figures, even though the object itself would be otherwise worthless.

So ignoring the first category of provenance which I've established matters little to none, and acknowledging history and infamy is the entirety of the value in the latter cases, we're back to the two collector mindsets I initially described in a prior post.

My concern amongst friends and neighbors like all the folks on AH, is that the "collectibles" in mint condition mindset of the American collector isn't stable. Members of my family were collectibles dealers for years and all types they sold have ultimately depreciated over time. This could be a beanie baby, or a baseball card, or a limited edition elvis plate, or commemorative coins. Same story as a "john wayne edition" post-64 winchester lever gun.

Buying collectibles that must remain mint to be of value isn't fun, because its not functional art that can be enjoyed. It also isn't a stable investment because all roads lead to near zero value. There is a day of reckoning approaching for the collectors of brownings, for example, Almost every one I see is new in box and I don't meet many top wage earners (those under 55) that are excited to buy a bunch of these quite common collectibles.

On the other hand, what is the global supply of pre-war Griffin & Howe rifles in good condition? The number goes down every day through wear and tear. Their replacement costs continue to grow. The amount of artisans alive that could duplicate them is slim. Careful use and enjoyment of the "art" does virtually nothing to diminish its value.

ROOKHAWRK: Seems now we’re having more of a philosophical discussion about the “definition of collectables” and you rightly point out that much of a guns “collectible” value is Not related to the quality of the firearm or even it’s functional performance….just like a Vincent Van Gogh painting is not valued based on the quality of the paint, canvas or frame…anything he scribbled on a napkin might be worth $$$. I also agree that rifles or guns released as “Special Edition” ie: 100 yr anniversary, John Wayne Commemorative etc.. are rarely ever worth anything - that’s a “forced attempt” at creating a desired collectable and it always fails.
But Wild Bill Hickcocks revolvers have value in the firearm itself - there aren’t many left, they were well made for that time period, and “his” were a part of Western History - that’s harder to come by then a new Holland & Holland even though their “pure quality & craftsmenship” are far superior. I think that you - or many people - can have an opinion on quality & it’s relationship to “value”… and support that opinion with facts but the consumer market will always determine “whats Collectable” and at what price the market will tolerate…..and as you point out - that can fluctuate up & down. I would Not invest heavily in any “recent” collectable but an established piece of History (Jack Ruby’s .38 revolver) seems a surer bet to appreciate in value over time….I think it’s already valued near $500,000 —— for a $50 dollar gun.

 

[CoElkHunter]

ROOKHAWRK: Seems now we’re having more of a philosophical discussion about the “definition of collectables” and you rightly point out that much of a guns “collectible” value is Not related to the quality of the firearm or even it’s functional performance….just like a Vincent Van Gogh painting is not valued based on the quality of the paint, canvas or frame…anything he scribbled on a napkin might be worth $$$. I also agree that rifles or guns released as “Special Edition” ie: 100 yr anniversary, John Wayne Commemorative etc.. are rarely ever worth anything - that’s a “forced attempt” at creating a desired collectable and it always fails.
But Wild Bill Hickcocks revolvers have value in the firearm itself - there aren’t many left, they were well made for that time period, and “his” were a part of Western History - that’s harder to come by then a new Holland & Holland even though their “pure quality & craftsmenship” are far superior. I think that you - or many people - can have an opinion on quality & it’s relationship to “value”… and support that opinion with facts but the consumer market will always determine “whats Collectable” and at what price the market will tolerate…..and as you point out - that can fluctuate up & down. I would Not invest heavily in any “recent” collectable but an established piece of History (Jack Ruby’s .38 revolver) seems a surer bet to appreciate in value over time….I think it’s already valued near $500,000 —— for a $50 dollar gun.

i.e., one of Bob Nelson’s @Bob Nelson 35Whelen nicely laser engraved synthetic stocked Savage 110 .35 Whelen Signature Model with Bob’s signature engraved in golden Vegemite on the floor plate and stock. I’d pay an extra $25 for that model. LOL

 

[rookhawk]

i.e., one of Bob Nelson’s @Bob Nelson 35Whelen nicely laser engraved synthetic stocked Savage 110 .35 Whelen Signature Model with Bob’s signature engraved in golden Vegemite on the floor plate and stock. I’d pay an extra $25 for that model. LOL

His .243s are far rarer, they’d probably grow in value more because of scarcity.

 

[HankBuck]

i.e., one of Bob Nelson’s @Bob Nelson 35Whelen nicely laser engraved synthetic stocked Savage 110 .35 Whelen Signature Model with Bob’s signature engraved in golden Vegemite on the floor plate and stock. I’d pay an extra $25 for that model. LOL

CoElk: you’re being “generous”…maybe if it was a .243 !

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

His .243s are far rarer, they’d probably grow in value more because of scarcity.

@rookhawk
If'n y'all find a 243 supposedly owned by me it would definitely be a fake as it would have started life as a 358 win or o nice 250 Savage.
Anything owned by me ain't worth much because I buy budget, eg exmil or Savage.
Bob

 

[VertigoBE]

His .243s are far rarer, they’d probably grow in value more because of scarcity.

Since they are firmly staked into the soil, one can only hope they will grow in value.

 

[MS 9x56]

His .243s are far rarer, they’d probably grow in value more because of scarcity.

The rusty barrels from using as tomato stakes may degrade the prices somewhat.

 

[HankBuck]

@rookhawk
If'n y'all find a 243 supposedly owned by me it would definitely be a fake as it would have started life as a 358 win or o nice 250 Savage.
Anything owned by me ain't worth much because I buy budget, eg exmil or Savage.
Bob

Bob, if we (Me) ever finds evidence that YOU owned a .243 that will be bigger News then Monica Lewinsky’s BLUE DRESS !!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Bob, if we (Me) ever finds evidence that YOU owned a .243 that will be bigger News then Monica Lewinsky’s BLUE DRESS !!

@HankBuck
If you can ever find evidence that I have ever owned a 243 you can call me Monica. When I visited @rdog he showed me his 243 and asked if I wanted to hold it. I politely declined as I didn't want to be contaminated. It was a nice looking rifle but it was a 243. No way would my hands touch it.
Bob