Giraffe question from newbie

[Mtn_Infantry]

hey there, thanks for the detailed response here! My intention for my original post wasn't to hijack this OP post, though I can relate to the questioning/title/etc. as I am still a newbie for African game.
Original intent was to share that I was also new, appreciated the OP asking the question as I wasn't sure all what was possible for a giraffe as far as taxidermy, trophies, etc. goes.

It was interesting to learn from others their experience, cost conversation, what to do/not to do with the taxidermy so I'm going into this better educated and really deciding if the giraffe is for me, or not.

I guess it turned it bit into a 8.6BLK convo, which wasn't my initial intent when I mentioned it. And yes, I'd agree re: your crowd statement & 8.6. hmm super interesting regarding those personal testimonials. and yeah you're right, much of what KB is doing is culling.

I'll def be writing it up - My South African hunt was published in SCI mag Jan/Feb edition - love to write and share. Besides a beautiful Nyala, I ended up with a banded duck - one in a million. epic trip.

I'm mainly a duck/waterfowl female hunter, so getting into rifles is a whole new world for me, I'm a newbie all over again. 2024 plan was 1) purchase my rifle and scope asap 2) start taking lessons and 3) getting a much shooting in as possible

Right now, no other hunts planned just yet, but many have said I need to do something prior.

I live in Texas so would be great to get connected to maybe someone that needs some hog hunting done, because I can't justify paying for a hog when they're so invasive.
There was a ladies hunt posted for later this year on a private ranch for exotics but man the pricing is more than African game it seems like!

I too live in Texas and feel your pain on the costs of hunting here. When I moved to Texas, one of the first things I did was find a lease. I had multiple leases at one point so I could hunt more. After going to Africa for the first time in 2021, I crunched the numbers that a single lease in Texas was more expensive than a 7-10 day hunt in Africa (without factoring in taxidermy). I decided not to retain either lease since I had a small lease close to home fall into my lap. I unfortunately lost that lease right before last years season started. Given the cost of a lease, feed, maintenance, time, fuel, etc; I'll opt for hunting Africa or somewhere else each year. If I get another lease, it'll be within 30-45 min of my front door and mainly for hogs, but I'm not actively searching for one.

I have a similar mindset about hogs and paying to hunt them, but I also understand the opposite side of the spectrum. It's hard for a landowner that doesn't know you to give you free reign of his property, there's liability, and all to often the people he's given free access to in the past have likely been poor stewards of the land, leaving trash, ruts, etc. I spoke to someone last week who had multiple cows shot. Other side of the spectrum is if you're paying, it's likely to an outfitter or rancher who's likely providing a guide that knows the property and animals on it and their habits. He needs to be compensated.

I've been fortunate to gain access to a property or two that I can pig hunt for free (when the owner or their kids are going). I think they really like using my stuff. I've also made some connections in various areas of the state with a several different outfitters. They know I've got my own NVG's, Thermals, Rifles, etc and help me out on the price a bit since it isn't wear and tear on their stuff.


Depending where you're located, I might know someone somewhat local to you who might help a bit on price. I personally can't bring myself to shoot exotics here in Texas, especially at the prices they're going for. I can bring myself to spend a couple hundred dollars on occasion to go kill some pigs with people I know are always on them and kill some big ones. To me this is a great way to test my equipment, and refresh skills.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

View attachment 596792

Not sure I'd consider a .308 win stepping down compared to the 8.6blk. What many are likely missing/forgetting is the majority of 8.6BLK guns have a sub 16" Barrel. Do you know what length barrel the above ballistics were calculated with? Was it a 12" or 16"? Is your Fix an SBR or is it the 16" Rifle version?

Now this isn't a true comparison because most .308win testing is done with a 22" barrel, but below are 2 of my favorite .308 load charts from your same source. The .308 is hitting with more KE at 500 yds than the 8.6blk is at 200 yds and with the 180 Trophy Bonded load isn't that far off at 500yds from where the 8.6blk is at 100yds.

Federal Premium 175 grain Terminal Ascent Ballistics Chart​

Federal Premium 180 grain Trophy Bonded Tip Ballistics Chart​

 

[dchum]

I guess all the marketing Q, KB, Field Ethos does is working...

Glad they are getting people interested in Africa. But the 8.6blk is not revolutionary for hunting by any means at all. I don’t see how it’s filling any needs.

Just know that and look at the truths and not Instagram as much.
I guess you get reposted on their Instagram for using it and tagging them so maybe that’s the benefit to using one?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 596792

@henandhunt
The Barnes bullets need velocity to expand and have minimum velocity at which they won't. This applies to all projectiles. The Barnes tsx minimum expansion velocity is 1,800fps ( check expansion pictures on their web site).
This being the case at around 80 yards you have dropped below this point. Even if'n they did expand the energy past 100 yards is below the minimum recommended for the game you are hunting.

To effectively take game you need
A bullet capable of doing the job at the range you expect to shoot at.
Enough velocity to make the bullet expand if using an expanding bullet.
Enough energy and penetration to destroy the life support system be it heart,lungs or CNS.
The ability to place the projectile where it will do this damage.

Despite what they show in you tube and the stories they tell you I personally think the 8.6 BLK just won't cut the mustard on the game you want to hunt. You tube has a lot to answer for in my book.
You can kill a cape buffalo with a 22lr. Is it wise, no. Is it ethical, no. Is it silly to call the 22lr a buffalo cartridge because someone once killed one with it YES .
I'm not doubting your shooting abilities but I personally think there are better cartridges for your needs. Even the humble old 30-06 is a grand old, time proven game cartridge that won't beat you silly
Just the thought of an old fart.
Bob

 

[Doug Hamilton]

This post gives me weird feelings..

I know what you mean. In light of recent media stories about some populations or subspecies of giraffe being in decline, I would not be surprised to find some anti hunter trying to get someone to say that they kill giraffes at every opportunity. An animal rights activist might also be looking for someone to say that with a declining population they hunted long and hard before they killed one. This OP may be asking a legitimate question, and is just interested in what happens on a giraffe hunt, but be careful in how yoh answer a question like this.

Animal rights fanatics (ARFs) love to twist facts, and take statements out of context.

Why is there very little posted about giraffe hunting on AF? It just doesn’t seem many hunt reports or posts mention giraffe hunting.
I’m sure there is reason l, but being a newbie I just don’t know the reasons.

I have been on plains game hunts in Zimbabwe a couple of times. I have seen many giraffes and always enjoy watching them. I could have shot one if I had wanted, but I just didn't want one enough to pay the trophy fee. Then what do you do with one after you have it? It would require a really large area to display one and still show the respect that such an impressive animal deserves.

 

[Hunt27]

is 8.6 still the rifle of choice or have you decided to use one of your guides rifles.

 

[henandhunt]

With respect, and without any prejudice, judging by the table given, the ballistic drawbacks are following, in my view.
In Africa (speaking of Namibia, after my three PG safari) you can expect shots up to 200 meters, but shots up to 300 are not uncommon. I had shots just over 200 meters.
So, I would say, bullet drop is considerable, and will have to be taken into account. In the field this is liability.

Legal caliber limitations in Namibia:
Minimums allowed for various species are:
1350 joules (995 foot pounds) for springbok, Impala, Blesbok, Gray Duiker, Steenbok, Ostrich, Caracal, Black-Faced Impala, Red Lechwe, Damara Dik-Dik, Klipspringer, Black-Backed Jackal, Warthog, Cheetah, Nyala, Chacma Baboon, Game Birds, etc.;

2700 joules (1991 foot pounds) for Greater Kudu, Cape Eland, Oryx / Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest, Blue Wildebeest, Black Wildebeest, Hartmann's Zebra, Burchell's Zebra, Giraffe, Sable Antelope, Roan Antelope, Waterbuck, Tsessebe, Leopard, etc.;

5400 joules ( 3982 foot pounds) for Elephant, Cape Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, etc.

So, basically legal limits for Namibia set this caliber (8.6 blk) maximum up to smaller game.

South Africa has more flex caliber limitations.

I would strongly advise to discuss all details with your outfitter and PH, and choose wisely your hunting area and terrain (and country), which will allow you shots at closer range, or to consider PG safari from a blind, where an accurate shot at closer range can be taken with some reliability.

I understand that various laws do not follow advancements in technology, this round is designed just recently in 2022, and respective laws decades earlier

So, we are actually talking of introduction of something new into African hunting fields. And new technology introduction brings its own risks.

There have been examples of success and examples of failures with new ammunition's introduction to Africa. Most famous cases:

280 Ross (first worlds 3000 fps, flat shooting magnum), history has placed as failure on a dangerous game hunt, particularly lion, when after wounding a lion, a brother of then prominent British politician was mauled by wounded lion and died few days later. (mr gray and lion story)

As example of success: 7x57, in the hands of WDM Karamojo Bell, hunting ivory.

More then 100 years passed, and history, common sense, collective experience, and ethics has established by now some legal guidelines on caliber minimums.

So, thus, legal requirements not to be disregarded. As mentioned, I understand that legal requirements took in considerations many factors and knowledge of the time when laws were introduced, and certainly not latest technological advancements, such as slow velocity versus spin rate of a new bullet, but above are just some of my observations made in good faith.
And history records both: success and failures...

that isn't the only 8.6 ballistic data out there. with respect on my end, I provided the first thing that would show the commenter that his statement about "delivering less than 1,000fpe" was not accurate.

I didn't come to this post to mention my hunting in Namibia to ask anyone's opinion about 8.6BLK.
Everyone seems to be providing their opinion to a caliber I have chosen, without me even asking anyone's opinion.... I guess that's how it works on here.

From responses it simply seems most guys are going to be stuck in their ways with not agreeing it's a hunting caliber. That's their prerogative and I'm not here trying to persuade anyone.

I do appreciate you educating me on that requirement for Namibia and have reached out to a few companies in regards.

I contacted Faxon to which they already replied and have some data provided by Q on the Barnes TSX which is showing 16" at 2065 and 12" at 1900-1950, however, I also reached out to Gorilla ammo because they have some new bullets since released on 8.6 and I want to see what sort of testing/data they have. Their website does have Muzzle velocity 1970fps in 12" barrel for their supersonic 8.6BLK 210gr Barnes TSX round.

As a hunter, I wouldn't do something that would put a hunt or animal at risk, and of course a discussion with PH is to be had, however, haven't been able to get a hold of them since I reached out to schedule dates.

I've had a discussion with another well known PH in South Africa that has seen the 8.6 blackout in action and 8.6BLK for a giraffe was not a concern - as he mentioned, the fast twist is what isn't taken into consideration and the penetration is insane in this round, different from other rounds. The requirements are only looking at linear velocity and rotational velocity isn't being taken into consideration.

again, appreciate the time you took to share.

 

[henandhunt]

I too live in Texas and feel your pain on the costs of hunting here. When I moved to Texas, one of the first things I did was find a lease. I had multiple leases at one point so I could hunt more. After going to Africa for the first time in 2021, I crunched the numbers that a single lease in Texas was more expensive than a 7-10 day hunt in Africa (without factoring in taxidermy). I decided not to retain either lease since I had a small lease close to home fall into my lap. I unfortunately lost that lease right before last years season started. Given the cost of a lease, feed, maintenance, time, fuel, etc; I'll opt for hunting Africa or somewhere else each year. If I get another lease, it'll be within 30-45 min of my front door and mainly for hogs, but I'm not actively searching for one.

I have a similar mindset about hogs and paying to hunt them, but I also understand the opposite side of the spectrum. It's hard for a landowner that doesn't know you to give you free reign of his property, there's liability, and all to often the people he's given free access to in the past have likely been poor stewards of the land, leaving trash, ruts, etc. I spoke to someone last week who had multiple cows shot. Other side of the spectrum is if you're paying, it's likely to an outfitter or rancher who's likely providing a guide that knows the property and animals on it and their habits. He needs to be compensated.

I've been fortunate to gain access to a property or two that I can pig hunt for free (when the owner or their kids are going). I think they really like using my stuff. I've also made some connections in various areas of the state with a several different outfitters. They know I've got my own NVG's, Thermals, Rifles, etc and help me out on the price a bit since it isn't wear and tear on their stuff.


Depending where you're located, I might know someone somewhat local to you who might help a bit on price. I personally can't bring myself to shoot exotics here in Texas, especially at the prices they're going for. I can bring myself to spend a couple hundred dollars on occasion to go kill some pigs with people I know are always on them and kill some big ones. To me this is a great way to test my equipment, and refresh skills.

oh, I don't discredit the landowner or outfitters need to charge for them, I just don't want to pay for it frankly I don't have any interest in killing a hog, so that's why I don't want to pay for it. Now if I'm doing it for taking out an invasive species to help a land owner, great, but I won't pay for it as that's money I'm taking away from my birddog by going out on a duck hunt in a new state and/or upland hunt.

And that's SUPER sad to hear about the negatives of letting people on their land only to experience things like shot cows. Some people in the world just don't have respect for others or their property and those are def not the kind of ppl I would want on my land either, so I totally get it.

I'm similar with turkeys as well - so many in Texas and it's $1-2k for a Rio, again I just don't want to pay that when I can put that towards another hunt I really want to do. I have hunted twice on Texas land with permission but no dice. I figure over time, if I am lucky enough to get connected to someone that has an abundance of Toms on their property and offers it up, I'd take em up on it.
Now I did pay to go hunt in Mexico for an Oscellated turkey... but that's not something in our TX backyard

I'll send you a DM though - I'm based on Central TX, and it may be worth maybe paying one time for a hog to actually do a hunt prior to Africa - so thanks for the offer!

 

[Mauser3000]

You can bring them home! View attachment 595947

We just brought my giraffe home to Texas from sitting in a shed in Minnesota. It will remain in the crate for the time being as I'm going to need to round up some help to set it up BTW, something like 13 critters in that crate. The giraffe causing the nearly 13 foot length.

Is that a John Deere 330?

 

[mark-hunter]

I didn't come to this post to mention my hunting in Namibia to ask anyone's opinion about 8.6BLK.
Everyone seems to be providing their opinion to a caliber I have chosen, without me even asking anyone's opinion.... I guess that's how it works on here.

From responses it simply seems most guys are going to be stuck in their ways with not agreeing it's a hunting caliber. That's their prerogative and I'm not here trying to persuade anyone.

Yes, well, that may be true, but obviously your post has brought some attention.

This forum can be described as conservative, but on the other hand on this forum rests experience of hundreds of safaris done from clients and outfitters perspective. That has some weight.

In general, this is new caliber with which most of us dont have any experience with.
Judging simply from ballistic table, and having 3 safaris done, I have some doubts.

For example, a realistic situation of shooting standing from stick, distance about 200 yards, at large animal such as eland, kudu, or similar (name the animal), which is standing at awkward angle, half covered by the bush, with wide intermittent changing side wind, this is not unusual situation and can be expected.

In such situation if a shot is taken with marginal bullet by energy and velocity, it could mean, wounding and tracking.
Wounding also means, full payment of trophy fee, whether the game is recovered or not.
Those are risks involved. And our small forum community does not take this lightly.

Now, some arguable credits.
I hunt everything from fox to deer and boar, or african game.

I was trying hard to understand the terminal ballistics and to find perfect bullet that can do it all. I did not find. Finally I came to conclusion, that bullet must be chosen for specific type of hunt.

So, I have read quite a few books on subject of ballistics, in parallel with my personal hunting experience.

But what I first found out, hunting bullet terminal performance, is not something to find in any scientific approach in the books that i could find.
What you can find are practical manuals, such as Robertsons Perfect shot 2.
It iis based on experience and deep understanding of animal anatomy. This is really informative publication

Then, I turned to forensic ballistics, and took a look, in few books. Those books covered the subject in more details the arguable effect of hydrodynamic shok. But, again, majority of sampling was done on various FMJ bullet wounds, with casualties of war. (this is not hunting, nor hunting bullet performance)

So, although it gave me some idea about velocity as a factor in terminal ballistics (potentially but not always causing hydrodynamic shok), I again did not find the answer (mathematical formula or definition) what a perfect hunting all around bullet would be.

But, in one of the books I remember, there were few lines saying that a bullet that spins faster, has potential to be more lethal when compared to same bullet of slower spin. (or at least. there are indications to support that thesis)

As far as theoretical and scientific approach, it seams that ammunition factories are doing the most thorough research about effectiveness of hunting bullet, but exact findings are not in public domain, except as part of advertising.

From this source and other, what one can conclude, expansion of bullet is the factor of velocity on impact, bullet construction, and materials used. (not the function of bullet spin).
Which brings us to the beginning of this discussion.

Experience teaches us of what works and what works not.

All in all, make thorough research of where you will be hunting, hunting area and country, and make due diligence of outfitter. Discuss all details with PH, follow advice.
Most probably South Africa will be the place first to look for.

 

[randallhebert]

oh, I don't discredit the landowner or outfitters need to charge for them, I just don't want to pay for it frankly I don't have any interest in killing a hog, so that's why I don't want to pay for it. Now if I'm doing it for taking out an invasive species to help a land owner, great, but I won't pay for it as that's money I'm taking away from my birddog by going out on a duck hunt in a new state and/or upland hunt.

And that's SUPER sad to hear about the negatives of letting people on their land only to experience things like shot cows. Some people in the world just don't have respect for others or their property and those are def not the kind of ppl I would want on my land either, so I totally get it.

I'm similar with turkeys as well - so many in Texas and it's $1-2k for a Rio, again I just don't want to pay that when I can put that towards another hunt I really want to do. I have hunted twice on Texas land with permission but no dice. I figure over time, if I am lucky enough to get connected to someone that has an abundance of Toms on their property and offers it up, I'd take em up on it.
Now I did pay to go hunt in Mexico for an Oscellated turkey... but that's not something in our TX backyard

I'll send you a DM though - I'm based on Central TX, and it may be worth maybe paying one time for a hog to actually do a hunt prior to Africa - so thanks for the offer!

Looking for information on a ocellated turkey hunt

 

[ActionBob]

Is that a John Deere 330?

Yup We also have a 430T set up for pulling. It always gets the longest pull but sometimes just in time, not feet LOL.... And half a dozen 435's A 630 and a 730 diesel with pony start. Watching for a 530 but we have a 520, and 720 set up for pulling. And about 8 letter tractors.... it's as bad as guns!

 

[Mauser3000]

Yup

Good taste! My grandfather bought a 40 when they were introduced.

 

[ActionBob]

View attachment 596792

Based on that chart, 100 yards is too far for a TSX bullet to expand properly. Perhaps the fast spin does make a difference and allows expansion at less than 1800 fps? It would be interesting to find out.... on an allready dead animal.

However on a giraffe, expansion is not the number one concern, penetration is. Giraffe hide is VERY tough and I will argue much tougher than Cape Buffalo hide. But it's not only the hide. The entire animal is like it's hardened. They have evolved to resist the sharpest and toughest thorns in Africa.... the liver is hard!

I shot mine with a 505 Gibbs and a 525 grain TSX leaving the barrel at 2350 fps. That is well over 6000 ft pounds of energy. That bullet did not exit on a broadside high heart/lung shot.

The bullet was expanded perfectly but looked like it had been worked over by a disk grinder.

Contrast that to a quartering away shot on a cape buffalo and the bullet traveled at least twice as far traversing most of the length of the buffalo and being suck against the inside of the skin in the offside front shoulder. And that bullet was in perfect shape. Giraffe are tough and hard!

You certainly do not need a 505 Gibbs.... but a 9.3x62 would be the minimum I'd use on a body shot.

You will probably be good with a high neck shot at 80 yards or less. It would be interesting to down that giraffe, prop it up. Get your pictures. Then stand back and shoot it in the shoulder at various distance. I'm betting that at 80 yards you will not get past one lung.... an African animal will run a long ways on one lung. Hope you get the opportunity to prove me wrong.

 

[James.Grage]

Why is there very little posted about giraffe hunting on AF? It just doesn’t seem many hunt reports or posts mention giraffe hunting.
I’m sure there is reason l, but being a newbie I just don’t know the reasons.

I have taken 2.

depending-on the time of year you go. If it is warm the cut off time is between 7 and 8 AM for shooting one. It takes about 6 hours to process your trophies in the field.

thinking about what you plan to do with your trophie hide? Rug i tried that and it became a trippping hazard so that hide became gun cases and purses to give to family.

 

[henandhunt]

Looking for information on a ocellated turkey hunt

happy to share, will DM you - I will have some open spots on our 2025 Turkey Hunt in Mexico - We have 5 total spots - it's with Yukkutz, well known in the Ocellated world, and it's the last date available as they were already sold of for 2025.

 

[henandhunt]

I have taken 2.

depending-on the time of year you go. If it is warm the cut off time is between 7 and 8 AM for shooting one. It takes about 6 hours to process your trophies in the field.

thinking about what you plan to do with your trophie hide? Rug i tried that and it became a trippping hazard so that hide became gun cases and purses to give to family.

congrats on the 2! if I end up with a giraffe ever, I was thinking bags and purses possibly the right direction or for an ottoman or club chair. With our house, I'm getting my zebra rug soon and I don't think my husband is going to want African hide rugs all over the house lol

any recommendations on good folks to use for gun cases, purses, etc. here in the US from experience?

 

[SETH RINGER]

congrats on the 2! if I end up with a giraffe ever, I was thinking bags and purses possibly the right direction or for an ottoman or club chair. With our house, I'm getting my zebra rug soon and I don't think my husband is going to want African hide rugs all over the house lol

any recommendations on good folks to use for gun cases, purses, etc. here in the US from experience?

waldenbork.com DOES GREAT WORK. HAVE HAD PURSES FROM HAIR ON ZEBRA, COSMETIC BAGS FROM HIPPO, AND A BUNCH OF THEIR CC/MONEY CLIPS FROM HIPPO ELEPHANT MADE BY THEM.

 

[meritman]

This is dark.!!!!

 

[randallhebert]

happy to share, will DM you - I will have some open spots on our 2025 Turkey Hunt in Mexico - We have 5 total spots - it's with Yukkutz, well known in the Ocellated world, and it's the last date available as they were already sold of for 2025.

We are planning to go back to Africa in Aug of 2025. Might have to look the following year