For Sale Fixer Searcy Double In 500/416 NE

[Graham Hunter]

So if you won this gun where would you take it to be fixed?

 

[mdwest]

I think there are a couple of decent options...

JJ Perodeau
Ellis Brown
Maybe the gunsmiths at NECG?

 

[Von S.]

So if you won this gun where would you take it to be fixed?

Oh yeah!

Is it just possible that there could be more to this whole story?

Could it be that there is something so wrong with it that fixing it isn't cost effective?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I think there are a couple of decent options...

JJ Perodeau
Ellis Brown
Maybe the gunsmiths at NECG?

I think before I bought any raffle tickets, I'd line any repair work thought needed beforehand.

@matt85, perhaps some pics and/or videos of exactly what the problem(s) is/are would be useful?

 

[mdwest]

I think before I bought any raffle tickets, I'd line any repair work thought needed beforehand.

@matt85, perhaps some pics and/or videos of exactly what the problem(s) is/are would be useful?

Agree...

The only things mentioned by Matt in the original post are that the gun is still bending brass.. but that this isnt nearly as bad as it once was.. and that it wasnt enough to bother most people to begin with.. but considering the cost and quality of this rifle, Matt wanted it fixed..

It also wont regulate..

and has a problem with the ejectors..

Regulation and ejectors are pretty common issues with doubles that go bad from what I understand.. so I would think that most competent or experienced gunsmiths that do a good amount of work with doubles would be prepared to deal with those issues..

I wouldnt want some hack smith touching the rifle...

But I cant imagine that someone like Perodeau or Brown wouldnt be up to the task..

 

[Von S.]

Just for the hell of it I went back and looked over all the pictures again and read everything.

I opened up a safe and looked at a few doubly rifles and shotguns that I have and the lever is dead center on all except one 100 year old that is slightly left of center do to a lot of use and it wearing in.

The picture of the lever on this action with barrels locked into the action shows the lever quite a bit to right of center, but scuff marks on the action made by the lever far left.

Is something bent? And with the lever so far right is the barrel and action really locked correctly?

 

[mdwest]

Dunno... the only double I own is a Webley & Scott shotgun... the lever on it is always laid to the right when the action is closed, just like the Searcy in the OP's pics..

 

[Supercat]

FWIW: "Butch's" last post on this thread was also his first...he posted a nasty/indignant post on August 20th and never came back.

Just a heads up for a potential buyer on what kind of guy you are dealing with.

 

[Ray B]

I've been known to buy shares of stock when the company had some issue, but I'm not interested in buying a gun at discount that I'd want to take on an expensive trip to Africa where the reason for the discount may become apparent at precisely the most inopportune moment. Thanks, but I'll pass and save up for a Heym.

 

[Red Leg]

FWIW: "Butch's" last post on this thread was also his first...he posted a nasty/indignant post on August 20th and never came back.

Just a heads up for a potential buyer on what kind of guy you are dealing with.

The "guy" has a well established reputation of building pretty good rifles. He was being trashed on this site and it he responded (I assume a satisfied client informed him) - with somewhat understandable indignation to the contributor most aggressively criticizing him. I assume he is uninterested or has no time to continue to participate in this give and take. Good on him for showing up at all. I would note Matt has been somewhat absent as well since throwing this dead fish on the table.

I have no idea what happened between he and Matt or what the story of that rifle was before Matt owned it. It would probably be an interesting tale. I am certain JJ Perodeau could put it right - for a price. I am equally certain that Butch Searcy has zero responsibility to do so. What I think I do know is that this was a previously owned rifle before Matt acquired it. No one except the original owner really knows what happened to it subsequent to its purchase. Matt says it no longer regulates - Butch says it does. I am pretty sure no one else on this site - including Supercat - has fired it. As long as the barrels are still in good shape, it can be regulated - either through new load development or soldering - one takes time and patience and the other takes money.

I have brought a number of rifles and SxS shotguns back from the dead. Most did not and still do not make economic sense. However, they all now look and shoot beautifully. I am certain salvation is possible with this rifle - the question is what it will cost.

 

[wesheltonj]

. . .I have brought a number of rifles and SxS shotguns back from the dead. Most did not and still do not make economic sense. However, they all now look and shoot beautifully. I am certain salvation is possible with this rifle - the question is what it will cost.

I brought back my grandfather Parker Trojan Shotgun from the dead (Larry DelGrego & Son did the work and it looks fantastic), and you are correct it does not make economic sense.

 

[Red Leg]

I brought back my grandfather Parker Trojan Shotgun from the dead (Larry DelGrego & Son did the work and it looks fantastic), and you are correct it does not make economic sense.

If it's a Parker and you are going to do it right, Del Grego is the only choice - whatever it costs.

 

[Supercat]

The "guy" has a well established reputation of building pretty good rifles. He was being trashed on this site and it he responded (I assume a satisfied client informed him) - with somewhat understandable indignation to the contributor most aggressively criticizing him. I assume he is uninterested or has no time to continue to participate in this give and take. Good on him for showing up at all. I would note Matt has been somewhat absent as well since throwing this dead fish on the table.

I have no idea what happened between he and Matt or what the story of that rifle was before Matt owned it. It would probably be an interesting tale. I am certain JJ Perodeau could put it right - for a price. I am equally certain that Butch Searcy has zero responsibility to do so. What I think I do know is that this was a previously owned rifle before Matt acquired it. No one except the original owner really knows what happened to it subsequent to its purchase. Matt says it no longer regulates - Butch says it does. I am pretty sure no one else on this site - including Supercat - has fired it. As long as the barrels are still in good shape, it can be regulated - either through new load development or soldering - one takes time and patience and the other takes money.

I have brought a number of rifles and SxS shotguns back from the dead. Most did not and still do not make economic sense. However, they all now look and shoot beautifully. I am certain salvation is possible with this rifle - the question is what it will cost.

I respect your opinion Red Leg but I do not agree with it, and if you look at “likes” and responses folllowing Butches post it is obvious that he didn’t make many friends and lost potential customers as well.

Again I respect your opinion but I just don’t agree with it

 

[IdaRam]

Are all of the relevant details of this situation known to any of the respondents in this thread? I very much doubt it.
Has anyone besides the owner of this rifle actually fired and/or inspected it? I very much doubt it.
If you buy a used double rifle made by (fill in the name of a custom rifle builder) and it has problems like this one, will that maker take it back and work on it for the price of shipping? I very much doubt it.
Is Butch Searcy a graduate of charm school? I very much doubt it.
However, I would much rather share a conversation and a drink with a grumpy old codger like Butch Searcy than those who feel compelled to sling mud on an internet forum knowing Full Well they couldn’t possibly have all of the relevant information.
Many of the comments are fair and I’m not saying everyone who has expressed dissent is in the wrong. But the conversation had moved on to discussion more related to a raffle and @Supercat felt the need to come back and re-trash BLS. This in my opinion is just plain petty bullshit. For someone with no dog in the fight, you sure seem to be throwing a lot of meat in the ring.

 

[lil 2 sleepy]

I agree with Red Leg. While Searcy's response was rather gruff, he was the one being called into question, and I don't really blame him for defending himself.
I don't know Matt from Adam, and don't have a clue of the story, but if I were interested in this gun, I would feel very uneasy that Matt has not shown back up on this thread after numerous requests for targets and additional info. Once again, I have no dog in the fight, but it looks like a situation that could be resolved, and someone in a nice rifle, it just doesn't smell right.

 

[Supercat]

You guys are right and I'm sorry that I brought it back up!

 

[rookhawk]

I spoke and wrote with Matt extensively on the gun. It holds possibilities with a lot of risks. Matt and I have some disagreement in costs to do the repairs and in what order, but are aligned on much of what must be done.

I do not believe it can be rebarreled with tubes/sleeves because I don't believe its a monobloc construction. New barrels, regulated, fitted, and finished would exceed the value of the gun. So what is there now needs to be made to work if possible.

Butch Searcy has refused to work on the rifle under any circumstances.

JJ Peridoux will not work on Searcy rifles.

My impression of steps:

Breach face has been shaved down by searcy screwing up the forend, altering the ejectors to point of failure, and reamed the breach in hopes of fixing the brass eating situation. (still eats brass)

So the goal is to get a serviceable rifle that will function, but eats brass. That's the end goal.

1.) Find a gunsmith qualified to do the work that will take the case.

2.) Begin by figuring out why Butch Searcy buggered all the screws out of time and correct as possible.

3.) Get ejection resolved and adjust the loop and cocking dogs for forend to work again.

4.) Once ejection is functional, move on to regulation.

5.) Build regulation loads. Failing that, install a new wedge, rebraze, and re-regulate the gun. Relay the ribs. Refinish the rebarrels thereafter.

There are a lot of $6800-$7500 searcy guns out there, so the peril is trying to get the work done in such a manner that time and money to repair do not exceed cost of a similar gun that isn't with issues.

I think there is a 70% chance this gun can be saved. I think it will take two years. I think finding a smith that can and will do the work is hard. I think it will cost $4500 to get the work done. (that's my opinion, others may disagree)

 

[ActionBob]

I spoke and wrote with Matt extensively on the gun. It holds possibilities with a lot of risks. Matt and I have some disagreement in costs to do the repairs and in what order, but are aligned on much of what must be done.

I do not believe it can be rebarreled with tubes/sleeves because I don't believe its a monobloc construction. New barrels, regulated, fitted, and finished would exceed the value of the gun. So what is there now needs to be made to work if possible.

Butch Searcy has refused to work on the rifle under any circumstances.

JJ Peridoux will not work on Searcy rifles.

My impression of steps:

Breach face has been shaved down by searcy screwing up the forend, altering the ejectors to point of failure, and reamed the breach in hopes of fixing the brass eating situation. (still eats brass)

So the goal is to get a serviceable rifle that will function, but eats brass. That's the end goal.

1.) Find a gunsmith qualified to do the work that will take the case.

2.) Begin by figuring out why Butch Searcy buggered all the screws out of time and correct as possible.

3.) Get ejection resolved and adjust the loop and cocking dogs for forend to work again.

4.) Once ejection is functional, move on to regulation.

5.) Build regulation loads. Failing that, install a new wedge, rebraze, and re-regulate the gun. Relay the ribs. Refinish the rebarrels thereafter.

There are a lot of $6800-$7500 searcy guns out there, so the peril is trying to get the work done in such a manner that time and money to repair do not exceed cost of a similar gun that isn't with issues.

I think there is a 70% chance this gun can be saved. I think it will take two years. I think finding a smith that can and will do the work is hard. I think it will cost $4500 to get the work done. (that's my opinion, others may disagree)

So if I'm following your math, starting at the end point of a $7000 gun, subtract $4500 of work, then more for interest on the money tied up for two years, shipping, agrivation, and assumption of risk. So you are probably thinking the gun is not worth much..... And because of the bad blood, it may be very difficult to even get it worked on.

Sounds like Matt might want to just hang it over a dart board and keep it

 

[Red Leg]

I spoke and wrote with Matt extensively on the gun. It holds possibilities with a lot of risks. Matt and I have some disagreement in costs to do the repairs and in what order, but are aligned on much of what must be done.

I do not believe it can be rebarreled with tubes/sleeves because I don't believe its a monobloc construction. New barrels, regulated, fitted, and finished would exceed the value of the gun. So what is there now needs to be made to work if possible.

Butch Searcy has refused to work on the rifle under any circumstances.

JJ Peridoux will not work on Searcy rifles.

My impression of steps:

Breach face has been shaved down by searcy screwing up the forend, altering the ejectors to point of failure, and reamed the breach in hopes of fixing the brass eating situation. (still eats brass)

So the goal is to get a serviceable rifle that will function, but eats brass. That's the end goal.

1.) Find a gunsmith qualified to do the work that will take the case.

2.) Begin by figuring out why Butch Searcy buggered all the screws out of time and correct as possible.

3.) Get ejection resolved and adjust the loop and cocking dogs for forend to work again.

4.) Once ejection is functional, move on to regulation.

5.) Build regulation loads. Failing that, install a new wedge, rebraze, and re-regulate the gun. Relay the ribs. Refinish the rebarrels thereafter.

There are a lot of $6800-$7500 searcy guns out there, so the peril is trying to get the work done in such a manner that time and money to repair do not exceed cost of a similar gun that isn't with issues.

I think there is a 70% chance this gun can be saved. I think it will take two years. I think finding a smith that can and will do the work is hard. I think it will cost $4500 to get the work done. (that's my opinion, others may disagree)

I will have to ask JJ about that. Was not aware, and would not take it as a good sign that he refuses to touch one. He fixed a VC of mine that was clearly a dog at birth. That limits trusted gumakers significantly. As I noted, bringing guns back from the dead rarely makes economic sense. I have done it to several old classics, and I expect even my estate will realize a loss on those. However, at least they were Golden Age classics and their restored esthetics have value - at least to me. A rifle like this will be unlikely to be considered in such a way.

 

[rookhawk]

It's probably a good gun for a very qualified gunsmith to own for personal use where there time is free and that they can resolve the guns issues over a period of time.