Flying BA YVR-CPT through Heathrow

[ConfusedSACAN]

Hi all,

Brand new here, been reading a ton of posts trying to find an answer. None of the airlines or Canadian border officials I contacted could give me a clear answer.

I have:

200 empty, unloaded brass 6.5 cases.
1 5-round magazine for these, that I bought before the PAL requirement

My question is, can I fly with these in my checked baggage? Do I need to get an export permit? I do not have a PAL, I bought these legally without and my plan is to go visit my family on the farm, load some rounds with my brother, shoot at his range, and leave the rest and the magazine for him since he has the 6.5 creed gun.

Are these considered as live ammunition and/or a firearm? Everyone seems to freak out at the mention of the word 'gun' or 'ammo', they do not listen any further than it's all legally acquired without any licenses...

Any pointers? My flight is BA, I have enough baggage allowance, a 8hr layover in Heathrow, and not flying anywhere else in SA after landing in Cape Town. Will not be leaving Heathrow either.

Thanks in advance!

 

[UpNorthMI]

It seems like there are a number of different questions here.

1. Can you take these out of Canada without any issue?
2. Will the airline have any issue transporting these? I assume that your checked bag will go straight through and will not be collected at London Heathrow and be re checked.
3. on arrival in Cape Town are cartridge cases or a rifle magazine considered controlled items.

Im assuming that the empty cases are not primed and that the magazine is for a bolt action rifle. If these assumptions are not correct I would not consider carrying them.

If I was taking these out of the US to the UK, a route I travel often, I would just throw them in my checked luggage and not mention anything at check in with the airline and would not declare them to UK customs as they are personal use items that are not controlled by the airline policy or by UK firearm legislation.

i cannot comment on the leaving Canada question other than to say these are personal items and you are not selling them or acting in a commercial capacity.

The big question is are these items controlled in any way in South Africa?

Maybe also a relevant point is do you hold a South African passport ? Are you effectively returning to the family home or are you a Canadian visiting South Africa. I have dual citizenship and 2 passports, in some ways it makes it possible to hold licenses / permits in both countries and makes transport of controlled items, firearms and ammunition much easier in both directions.

Good luck with your travels.

 

[UpNorthMI]

You can export empty brass cases from Canada with no requirement, see attached

Importing, exporting and transporting ammunition and propellant powders

Are you planning to bring ammunition or propellant powders into Canada, or to send them from Canada to another country, or to transport them in or through Canada?

natural-resources.canada.ca

It looks like empty brass cases are uncontrolled in South Africa

Legal constraints when buying Reloading Components

www.shootingstuff.co.za

 

[ConfusedSACAN]

It seems like there are a number of different questions here.

1. Can you take these out of Canada without any issue?
2. Will the airline have any issue transporting these? I assume that your checked bag will go straight through and will not be collected at London Heathrow and be re checked.
3. on arrival in Cape Town are cartridge cases or a rifle magazine considered controlled items.

Im assuming that the empty cases are not primed and that the magazine is for a bolt action rifle. If these assumptions are not correct I would not consider carrying them.

If I was taking these out of the US to the UK, a route I travel often, I would just throw them in my checked luggage and not mention anything at check in with the airline and would not declare them to UK customs as they are personal use items that are not controlled by the airline policy or by UK firearm legislation.

i cannot comment on the leaving Canada question other than to say these are personal items and you are not selling them or acting in a commercial capacity.

The big question is are these items controlled in any way in South Africa?

Maybe also a relevant point is do you hold a South African passport ? Are you effectively returning to the family home or are you a Canadian visiting South Africa. I have dual citizenship and 2 passports, in some ways it makes it possible to hold licenses / permits in both countries and makes transport of controlled items, firearms and ammunition much easier in both directions.

Good luck with your travels.

The cases are empty brass, for a 6.5 Creedmore bolt action. My brother has all the other supplies for reloading back on the farm in South Africa.

My bags are checking straight through from YVR to CPT yes, and based on what the second poster linked it seems I am good to go regarding the brass!

I do have dual citizenship for SA and CA, grew up in the Western Cape. Crazy that none of the officials I contacted in Canada could point me to the natural resources site, and my google skills are apparently lacking.

Now to just figure out the magazine thing, since regulation changed on buying them recently (need a PAL to buy now).

 

[ConfusedSACAN]

You can export empty brass cases from Canada with no requirement, see attached

Importing, exporting and transporting ammunition and propellant powders

Are you planning to bring ammunition or propellant powders into Canada, or to send them from Canada to another country, or to transport them in or through Canada?

natural-resources.canada.ca

It looks like empty brass cases are uncontrolled in South Africa

Legal constraints when buying Reloading Components

www.shootingstuff.co.za

Thank you!!! That puts my mind half at ease!

 

[BRICKBURN]

https://www.nexcol-nceel.canada.ca/en/Home-Accueil

Guidance - Sort of
https://www.international.gc.ca/controls-controles/firearms_armes_a_feu/index.aspx?lang=eng

 

[ConfusedSACAN]

Hi all,

Update from the RCMP themselves regarding the magazine:

The Firearms Act does not regulate the import/export of firearm parts other than the frame / receiver (which legally qualifies as a firearm by itself) or firearm parts that are classified as prohibited devices, including handgun barrels that are 105 mm or less in length or parts made exclusively for a fully automatic firearm.

You should contact the Canada Border Services Agency at 1-800-461-9999 for information regarding exporting firearm parts that are not regulated under the Firearms Act.

I will give the CBSA another call just to double-confirm. Seems I might not have anything to worry about!

 

[ConfusedSACAN]

So flew out with a MDT HNT26 chassis, brass, the magazine, some trigger sets, and a decapping die. All the airline was worried about was that, the brass looks like ammo so "it's ammo" and the chassis looks like a weapon "so it's a weapon"... So in the end they were checked in as such, the brass in a separate (locked) case and the chassis and everything else in the checked bag. The CATSA lady that actually did the X-ray of the bag and case just rolled her eyes as she heard this haha. Oh well. They didn't even look at the magazine. About to land in Cape Town.

 

[xbr897]

BA is an incredible pain to deal with for firearms. On my first Africa trip in '22 I had put two empty cases in my checked bag as they were the cases from the first two animals I shot in Africa. I had rented a rifle and was not travelling with a firearm on that trip. After checking in and killing time since I arrived 3 hours prior to flight, I got a call and was asked to meet with security. BA was freaking out about the 2 empty cases in the checked luggage, even though both security and the baggage handlers were telling them it was not loaded and not dangerous. The BA Agent eventually let them go through but it took nearly an hour and many time they appeared about to tell me they needed the brass removed from the bag.

 

[Longwalker]

ConfusedSACAN, glad it was so simple for you. I asked Export Controls Canadian agents for guidance when I wanted to bring empty cartridge cases and some rifle chamber gauges with me to SA. I got no advice, export goods control is done by "self assessment", so then I applied for an export permit, which I got, eventually, a couple months later after a bunch more emails and application questions. Your method was better.

 

[ConfusedSACAN]

ConfusedSACAN, glad it was so simple for you. I asked Export Controls Canadian agents for guidance when I wanted to bring empty cartridge cases and some rifle chamber gauges with me to SA. I got no advice, export goods control is done by "self assessment", so then I applied for an export permit, which I got, eventually, a couple months later after a bunch more emails and application questions. Your method was better.

I was looking into those permits too, luckily I didn't bother haha. It's all the airlines that have their rules that are decided on a case by case basis by people that don't know what gun parts are... so...makes for frustrating conversations at the airport, even at one point me asking them to call the RCMP so they can confirm what I am trying to tell them. In the end it was fine, now I know for next time:

With BA: If flying uncontrolled gun parts like a chassis, check it in ahead of time as a replica weapon, this way you don't scare the baggage handlers. Don't bother mentioning magazines. Brass looks like ammo on xray to them, so luckily we were proactive and already put it in a locked ammo box that could just be taken out of the checked bag. No issues beyond that.

In Cape Town, the bags were on the luggage carousel, and the ammo box was on the police counter. The police laughed when they saw it was just brass.