Fixed Magazine vs Detachable Magazine

[Velo Dog]

Fewer moving parts has always been the best option for an easily distracted oaf such as myself.
So as strictly hunting rifles go, all of my repeaters have non-removable magazines.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have always failed to see how dropping a round in is quicker than snapping on in the mag, especially when half the time just dropping one on top jams up.
You can top off by pressing the las round just deep enough into the mag to get it under the extractor.

Have you ever owned a good controlled feed rifle? Tip the barrel down a bit, drop a round in, and close the bolt. What's the cartridge going to jam against? When dropping a round in the opened action of my 30-06 Springfield, most of the time the round will disappear into the chamber before the bolt closes. If it's an empty gun, simply close the bolt. If shells are in magazine, depress top one slightly while closing the bolt. That requires some dexterity and practice but still a lot easier than opening the floor plate after a round is chambered and recharging the magazine. Definitely quicker and easier than popping out the removable magazine, setting down the loaded rifle, recharging the magazine (requires two hands), then putting it back in the gun. If the gun is properly tuned at the factory or gunsmith (I actually did it myself), the Mauser style controlled feed extractor snaps over the cartridge rim when the bolt is closed. Open the bolt and the cartridge or spent case is removed. No jamming.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Yes several. The cartridge never seems to disappear into the chamber quite right, is it really any quicker than pressing it into the magazine. That works with barrel at any angle and no broken extractors.

 

[meigsbucks]

Only push feed design fixed magazines require complete cycling of every round to unload. Controlled feed I need only push each round forward far enough for it to jump onto the bolt face under the extractor claw. Then pull the bolt back and eject. Closing the bolt all the way is not necessary to unload cartridges in the magazine. Hard to believe Paul Mauser came up with the design way back in 19th century. That guy was a genius. John Browning was second place in that race ... but it was a close run thing.

I guess I didn’t clarify enough. Just a lot easier and quicker with a hinged floor plate where you can just drop all of the rounds at once, versus picking them off one by one.

 

[mark-hunter]

the Mauser style controlled feed extractor snaps over the cartridge rim when the bolt is closed. Open the bolt and the cartridge or spent case is removed. No jamming.

I think this operation is discussed on the forum elsewhere.
In my opinion, not recommended. This can cause extractor to break after repetitive use.
Personally, in CRF rifle, mauser 98 type, I first push the cartridge by thumb into the magazine. Then push the bolt forward, the bolt strips the round from mag, then rim slides under the exctractor claw, making a good hold. Then push the bolt to the chamber and lock.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Yes several. The cartridge never seems to disappear into the chamber quite right, is it really any quicker than pressing it into the magazine. That works with barrel at any angle and no broken extractors.

I guess it depends on how the gun is set up. If a scope is attached, then charging the magazine requires reaching around scope and getting the cartridge in line with magazine before depressing it into magazine. Too far forward and it sits in the magazine cockeyed = jam when closing the bolt as bolt face catches on side of cartridge instead of behind rim. To ensure the shell is loaded correctly, the shooter must look into the chamber over/around the scope. I can simply drop the shell into the chamber either without looking or only momentarily looking. Again, this no-eyes-needed option for lightning quick loading an empty rifle is almost essential when dealing with dangerous game, especially dangerous game carrying loaded guns.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I think this operation is discussed on the forum elsewhere.
In my opinion, not recommended. This can cause extractor to break after repetitive use.
Personally, in CRF rifle, mauser 98 type, I first push the cartridge by thumb into the magazine. Then push the bolt forward, the bolt strips the round from mag, then rim slides under the exctractor claw, making a good hold. Then push the bolt to the chamber and lock.

For more than fifty years I have been snapping over rounds dropped into the chamber of my WWII Springfield, especially at the range. No one ever told me it could lead to a broken extractor. I don't recall reading anything about it in the military manual either. It was my understanding both Mauser and Springfield were designed to snap over on rounds dropped in the chamber specifically to expedite loading a quick round into an empty gun during a heated firefight. At any rate, I had been thinking about ordering extra extractors for both guns. Guess I should do that.

My Springfield 30-06 holds five rounds in the magazine so it's not a big deal to carry the gun with only four in the box and one in the chamber (during final stalk). But the 98 Mauser 404 is 1) for dangerous game and 2) only holds three in the magazine. I need to have that box and chamber fully loaded during final stalk! And I don't want to have to drop the floorplate, pick up two rounds, flip the gun over, hold the gun upside down while simultaneously trying to hold the floorplate and follower out of the way and then drop three rounds in the upside down box IN CORRECT ORDER. If the shells are stacked in the box in the wrong order viz a viz the follower, then the gun jams when next round is cycled. Been there, done that. Not an ideal situation if a bull buffalo is in angry mode. So, why is snap over so important? It is for this gun. Damn important.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I think this operation is discussed on the forum elsewhere.
In my opinion, not recommended. This can cause extractor to break after repetitive use.
Personally, in CRF rifle, mauser 98 type, I first push the cartridge by thumb into the magazine. Then push the bolt forward, the bolt strips the round from mag, then rim slides under the extractor claw, making a good hold. Then push the bolt to the chamber and lock.

Yes this is correct. My Mauser K98 really doesn't like snapping over i.e. it and I had a lesson about this whilst hunting once where I tried it, the rifle said no and I didn't press the issue again.

I never saw the need for more than five rounds at a whack hunting especially when most people lack the skill to get off more than two rounds with a bolt action in any expedient manner sufficient to make two hits or recover from a missed opening shot. This appears to be especially true as the caliber approaches and exceeds .30-06 where the shooter reels from the ferocious recoil and rethinks their life choices before chambering a second round.

 

[Tam Dl]

The law here requires guns unloaded in vehicles and ammo stored separately from rifle at home so my loaded mag was usually not with my rifle. Easy to grab the gun and forget the clip.

I live with the same laws, but I am particularly tallented, I have lost mags before leaving the house. Mainly 22 lr and PCP mags. But the cost is through the roof these days. I got a 308 with mags, and so far so good, as they are large enough to keep track of.

 

[375Fox]

I don’t have a preference if it’s reliable. Model 70s with fixed magazine/hinged floor plate are great but so is the design for detachable magazine on my Sako 85. However, it seems a lot of detachable magazines are plastic and come on lower end rifles. I think choosing a quality rifle is what’s most important.

 

[375Fox]

I cannot personally understand the leaving behind or loss of a magazine. I couldn't care less about fixed or detachable, but that it is reliable in its feeding and unobtrusive. I understand the damage or disabling due to dirt and carry cleaning gear for that too. I'm rather deliberate with my gear when I go afield. I enjoy the packing and preparation. I usually take two guns if I am traveling any distance from the house and if there isn't air travel or weight restrictions involved I've got enough magazines and ammunition for the season at all times. I usually don't like to have a gun along with me without ammunition and a magazine. I have found that I am never entirely certain about when I will need to shoot a gun except that it will most definitely be when I have no ammunition. Case in point I took my .300 WM to be fitted for a suppressor with no ammunition. Gunsmith wanted to do a shooting demo of the suppressor and it was a minute to get some ammunition. Lesson learned.

I nearly lost my Tikka magazine multiple times on an Alaskan deer hunt. While wearing a backpack and rifle on sling on your shoulder, it was easy for the backpack to release the magazine latch while climbing because it’s not protected. I wouldn’t take a Tikka on another backpack hunt as a result of that. It’s too easy to lose the magazine several hours from truck. A quick walk or stand hunting it’s great. Sako 85s have a much better design where it essentially cannot be released accidentally.

 

[mdwest]

Tikka’s are very accurate rifles. I think the magazine “issue” really isn’t. Get the rifle you like. Train with it and check your kit prior to deployment.

^^ This ^^

All systems have their pluses and minuses.... Figure out what works best for your intended use and go with it... the deer/pig/kudu/gemsbok/whatever wont know the difference...

 

[Tam Dl]

My role on the forum is to quote either Seyfried, or Heath, repeatedly. I will admit that the library at the lake is a bit limited.

Don was possibly the most noteworthy big game hunter in Africa, to shoot a minor caliber gun on everything, and to use a bolt action rifle with a detachable magazine. This reference would be a lot more powerful if I knew why he used a detachabe mag on a Dumoulin action rifle, where it would have required extra bottom metal work. My guess is that it had a lot to do with his suggestion that one carry a rifle and thirty rounds of ammo in the event that one bumped into some unpleasantness. And one had to be able to shoot the ammo/gun also, so 30 rounds of 700 Nitro would put a strain on the body, and the budget, for most.

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There are a number of management issues with a rifle that call on being able to dump rounds, or not dump mags. What I notice is that with a scope on, a lot of the old rifles that could be managed easily in the direst extreme, are not so much fun with a scope. When I want to add a round quickly to a scoped Mauser, I use a process called fumbling-off the mag, which can go badly a number of ways. So is a magazine really all that bad, comparatively?

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I remember when the Ruger Scout came out that the market reception was well past merely odd. Not only did many not know what a scout rifle was, but **NOT**PERMITTED** threw out the rulebook so that was odd; and then about 50% of people were just delighted to have access to a rifle, any rifle with a reliable, military grade magazine system, ostensibly. So what are all these other detachable magazines doing. Is the problem that deatachable magazines are bad, or that almost all of them, despite costing hundreds of dollars for a hunk of plastic, are crap?

 

[Aaron N]

For more than fifty years I have been snapping over rounds dropped into the chamber of my WWII Springfield, especially at the range. No one ever told me it could lead to a broken extractor. I don't recall reading anything about it in the military manual either. It was my understanding both Mauser and Springfield were designed to snap over on rounds dropped in the chamber specifically to expedite loading a quick round into an empty gun during a heated firefight. At any rate, I had been thinking about ordering extra extractors for both guns. Guess I should do that.

My Springfield 30-06 holds five rounds in the magazine so it's not a big deal to carry the gun with only four in the box and one in the chamber (during final stalk). But the 98 Mauser 404 is 1) for dangerous game and 2) only holds three in the magazine. I need to have that box and chamber fully loaded during final stalk! And I don't want to have to drop the floorplate, pick up two rounds, flip the gun over, hold the gun upside down while simultaneously trying to hold the floorplate and follower out of the way and then drop three rounds in the upside down box IN CORRECT ORDER. If the shells are stacked in the box in the wrong order viz a viz the follower, then the gun jams when next round is cycled. Been there, done that. Not an ideal situation if a bull buffalo is in angry mode. So, why is snap over so important? It is for this gun. Damn important.

@One Day... has a great post buried somewhere in the forum you may enjoy reading for a little enlightenment

 

[TTundra]

Fixed or detachable. I say both...and I'll do so with the same rifle.

The rifle in question is the Blaser R8. The magazine is part of what Blaser calls the trigger group. A button located just in front of the magazine insert will allow/restrict the trigger group (magazine) removal.
View attachment 556362
If it's in the forward position as the picture above shows, the trigger group can be removed for magazine loading or a complete change of it.

View attachment 556363
Sliding the button to the rear reveals a "S" and this means the trigger group can not be removed. In order to reload the rounds need to come from the top of the loading port.
View attachment 556365
Also on the Blaser R8 rifles, to remove the trigger group, there are tabs on both the left and right side of the trigger need to be depressed at the same time while pulling the trigger group out. Pushing just one of these will not result in it coming out, making this system even more foolproof.

So yes, I will definitely take the option of having both.

Was somewhat waiting for this post. Does solve the question...

 

[WyoBull]

After 40+ years of having nothing but fixed magazines, I picked up two rifles over the past 3-4 years that have detachable magazines.
One is a CZ 527 Varmint in 17 REM and they are steel magazines.
The other is a Tikka T3X Super Lite in 243 Win and it has a composite magazine.
Both are great, easy to load and unload and are extremely accurate. The issues I have read about I have not experienced.
For me, either work just fine and if the OP gets a Tikka, he will not be dissatisfied.

 

[Rule 303]

To add a bit more info regarding the M98 extractor. Some rifles are built so pressing down on the extractor won't lift the claw. That way the extractor can never jump over the rim of the round. So if you have one of these rifles dropping a round on top and closing the bolt won't work.

By far and away the best magazines made are plastic. As the old add said, Oils aint oils Sol. The magazines on the Styer Aug are plastic. I have jumped on them and seen others jump on them while on concrete. They were then placed in the rifle and fired. No steel mag will do that. The problem is no body else uses that plastic and Steyr don't use it on their other rifles with detachable magazines.

 

[steve white]

Maybe this is why I use the old Mannlicher-Schoenauers with their rotary magazines. And if I want to unload, all I have to do is press a button and the rounds are emptied into my hand. I have never been able to make those rifles malfunction! And you can load from the top in a hurry in an emergency. The rifle can be completely field stripped down to firing pin or rotary magazine components with a single pointed cartridge as the only tool! There is not one item on the rifle that is junky.
Too bad the bolt handle is ahead of the trigger! That is inconvenient for the kind of rapid fire you might need in a charge situation.

 

[BRICKBURN]

. I’ve never been in a gunfight with a mule deer where rapid mag changes were paramount.
...

What kind of sissy Mule Deer do you hunt?!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

Maybe this is why I use the old Mannlicher-Schoenauers with their rotary magazines. And if I want to unload, all I have to do is press a button and the rounds are emptied into my hand. I have never been able to make those rifles malfunction! And you can load from the top in a hurry in an emergency. The rifle can be completely field stripped down to firing pin or rotary magazine components with a single pointed cartridge as the only tool! There is not one item on the rifle that is junky.
Too bad the bolt handle is ahead of the trigger! That is inconvenient for the kind of rapid fire you might need in a charge situation.