Finally got my W.J. Jeffery 8-bore shooting!

[AZDAVE]

What brand of black are you using? I found that in my 12 bore muzzle loader that Swiss gave me the best performance followed Goex and Schuetzen being about the same. During the period your 8 bore was built Curtis and Harvey #6 was the gold standard.

 

[D.M.V]

Loving all this information about the loads. I don't have this caliber or do any muzzle loader stuff. But I'm sure enjoying the discussion. What a great rifle and project.

 

[matt85]

What brand of black are you using? I found that in my 12 bore muzzle loader that Swiss gave me the best performance followed Goex and Schuetzen being about the same. During the period your 8 bore was built Curtis and Harvey #6 was the gold standard.

With these two cartridges I just loaded, I used Schuetzen. Swiss is probably the only modern brand that's comparable to 19th century black powder. Unfortunately, I don't have any Swiss and at 25 shots to the pound... I don't think I could afford to use Swiss!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

With these two cartridges I just loaded, I used Schuetzen. Swiss is probably the only modern brand that's comparable to 19th century black powder. Unfortunately, I don't have any Swiss and at 25 shots to the pound... I don't think I could afford to use Swiss!

@matt85
I wonder how many shovel fulls @ Norfolk shooter uses in his four bore. Probably half a tin at a time.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

 

[matt85]

@matt85
I wonder how many shovel fulls @ Norfolk shooter uses in his four bore. Probably half a tin at a time.
Ha ha ha ha ha
Bob

I believe it was Cal Pappas who told me that he tried his 4-bore with black powder once... and swore he wouldn't do it again! Then again, he also wasn't fond of conical bullets in his 8-bore either. Last time I went shooting with Cal he had brought plenty of smokeless 8-bore ball cartridges but only a small number of conical loads. At the end of the shoot, he asked me to shoot up the rest of his conical loads.

Black powder is supposed to give these old guns pretty fierce recoil. I suppose I'll find out when the rain stops.

 

[AZDAVE]

Matt I will be interested in what you get for velocity and how well the balls regulate. My guess with the Schuetzen you will need to go up around 10-12% to get it to regulate. but the big bores sometimes surprise a fellow. Hope yours is spot on.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

Matt - That is a beautiful rifle. A few of thoughts for you to consider. Look into the lubes used by black powder muzzle loaders. Emmert's is a beeswax blend. Thompson Center Bore Butter, Crisco, etc. It might help some and when you do try the BP loads, it will reduce the bbl fouling. Another thought is see if your bullet mold maker will make you a hollow base conical bullet mold similar to the old civil war era mini-ball. These seal better in the bbl to get more consistent velocity and somewhat better precision from the big slug. Finally, might look into having a machinist mill some boo-letts out of brass or copper bar stock. They could include two or three driving bands on the shape with the rest sized to the bore of the bbl so the pressures would not be excessive. Oh, one more: You could include a hollow tip filled with HE and a proximity fuse. That would put new meaning to "Close enough" regarding accuracy (joking of course). Love your rifle. Thanks for sharing.

 

[matt85]

Well, we had a quick break in the weather and... THAT WAS FUN!

I personally didn't find the recoil to be that "over the top" and would say it's more recoil than a smokeless ball load but less recoil than a smokeless conical load. I will have to try the same load under a conical, I imagine that will be "brisk".

The highlight of the two shots had to be the LEGENDARY amount of smoke! As it turns out, if you fire off 550gr of uncompressed black powder in the span of a few seconds... it reproduces London's fog. My neighbors house actually fully disappeared in the cloud!

Here is a picture of the target. Sadly, I didn't set the chronograph up, so no speed, but I didn't know how much I trusted the loads and didn't want to shoot my chronograph. The shots did cross, the left hit is from the right barrel. This could mean the velocity was actually too high, but more likely it's just that my balls aren't the ideal size and accuracy has not been good with them (or I just pulled the shot).

 

[matt85]

The black powder loads have proved to be extremely important. I have about half a pound of Blue Dot left and as far as I know, I won't be able to get more for years. However, FFg black powder is still available online from a couple of sources.

I will have to try my 1200gr bullets over black powder soon. It will be an important load for the future, if Blue Dot never becomes available again.

 

[Sarg]

Great to see, it looks like you can still get Blue Dot bud, I found some straight away & for only $27 a pound. it is here $119 a pound & is hard to find .

Better yet grab a 4lb can & your set for a while ?

 

[matt85]

Great to see, it looks like you can still get Blue Dot bud, I found some straight away & for only $27 a pound. it is here $119 a pound & is hard to find .

Better yet grab a 4lb can & your set for a while ?

You probably found one of the MANY scam websites. If you use google to search for Blue Dot, you find loads of scam websites selling it for cheap. These websites won't accept credit cards, they want non-direct payment methods or gift cards.

 

[Sarg]

I see, well I suppose you would know your sellers better than I do, but the ones here in NZ have the powder & are real.

It is amazing to have scam websites for powder ?

I will try a couple of links, they have phone numbers maybe you could ring them & I suppose could be out of stock ?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi7p_jvnfyEAxUc7zgGHUToCfs4FBAWegQIDhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.powdervalley.com%2Fproduct%2Falliant-blue-dot%2F&usg=AOvVaw1HxjEEmeXUw0DdWDoihCV9&opi=89978449

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjws5X8m_yEAxVAmq8BHbz6BHA4ChAWegQIHBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriotdefensearmory.com%2Fproduct%2Falliant-blue-dot-smokeless-gun-powder%2F&usg=AOvVaw2-tW27h1xULpOavByf02hK&opi=89978449

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwikiOCKn_yEAxVa-jgGHe5ODcQQFnoECDkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fusa-hunter.com%2Fproduct-category%2Fshooting%2Freloading-supplies%2Fsmokeless-powders%2Falliant-powder%2F&usg=AOvVaw1-yFPKfb5YGOB3oOg0A4fM&opi=89978449

 

[Sarg]

Looks like the first one is out of stock, so maybe they all are ?

I tried to edit but was too late.

 

[matt85]

Looks like the first one is out of stock, so maybe they all are ?

I tried to edit but was too late.

The first link is a real business, Powder Valley has been a good source for powder and primers for years.

The other two websites are scams.

 

[Sarg]

That is very sad isn't it, no wonder when I sold my two canisters of Blue Dot in Aussie I was over run by buyers !

I brought the 8 bore action & barrel blanks back to NZ to do the work myself but won't bet on that project being completed .

 

[matt85]

That is very sad isn't it, no wonder when I sold my two canisters of Blue Dot in Aussie I was over run by buyers !

I brought the 8 bore action & barrel blanks back to NZ to do the work myself but won't bet on that project being completed .

Alliant only does a batch of Blue Dot every few years. This makes it very rare and valuable; scammers know this and take advantage of people who are desperate for powder.

Hopefully they will do another batch soon! Until then I will likely save my small about of Blue Dot for heavy hunting loads. General target shooting will be done with black powder.

 

[matt85]

I tried to do some more speed testing today, with more mixed results. The good news is that I was able to get some more speeds on my 1200gr nitro-for-black loads. The bad news is that I haven't been able to get speeds for my black powder loads. I would really like to know the speed on the original regulating loads.

The two 1200gr NFB loads gave velocities of 1289 fps and 1318 fps. Add my previous measurement of 1326 fps and you get an average of 1311 fps. This is slower than the speeds I have read about for other 8-bores using a similar bullet, but it's where the gun seems to be happy. I will keep trying to perfect the load... but my powder supply is low.

 

[Boone66]

I don't shoot mine very often, unless I have several pounds of powder on hand, because they eat so much. Have you tried 1 1/2 or 2f Swiss powder? I have found Swiss to work the best in mine. I know, muzzleloader vs cartridge, but some info carries over.

 

[matt85]

I don't shoot mine very often, unless I have several pounds of powder on hand, because they eat so much. Have you tried 1 1/2 or 2f Swiss powder? I have found Swiss to work the best in mine. I know, muzzleloader vs cartridge, but some info carries over.

I have a reasonable supply of black powder and Schuetzen seems to work decently (think I also have some KIK). I was referring to my supply of Blue Dot being low. I would greatly prefer to use NFB loads as they are easier to clean up after, don't tarnish the brass, and produce less recoil.

Swiss powder has always been a little too expensive for me. A pound of Schuetzen runs around $25 per pound VS $40 per pound with Swiss, making it a slightly more cost-effective powder. Accuracy is no doubt going to be better with Swiss, so if I end up having to use black powder for a hunting load, I'll give Swiss a try.

 

[Boone66]

I have a reasonable supply of black powder and Schuetzen seems to work decently (think I also have some KIK). I was referring to my supply of Blue Dot being low. I would greatly prefer to use NFB loads as they are easier to clean up after, don't tarnish the brass, and produce less recoil.

Swiss powder has always been a little too expensive for me. A pound of Schuetzen runs around $25 per pound VS $40 per pound with Swiss, making it a slightly more cost-effective powder. Accuracy is no doubt going to be better with Swiss, so if I end up having to use black powder for a hunting load, I'll give Swiss a try.

I agree, I mostly just hunt with all of mine, if just target shooting, I use schutzen or goes, as it is much cheaper .