Eland Cartridges for recoil sensitive shooter?

[lawrence_court]

It's gone 2am and I'll probably regret the following rant...

You have a shooter who is on the light side and a little recoil shy...

What you can use is something from .270 (on the light side) to a 30.06 or a variation thereof.

People who are not listening to your parameters are just trying to push their own preferences.

6.5 is a little light unless you use it as a bayonet. .300 WM is going to kick unless you have the can and super dooper pad and mercury recoil thingy majig.

You want penetration without recoil. Punch without kick.

7x57
.308
.30.06

Premium bullets. Close enough. Bullet placement.

Give the man the info that he needs, not what makes your weewee hard.

100% agree.

.308 brake or supressor with 180 grain premium bullet from a 9lb ish rifle. Keep it within 200 yds. Take it behind the shoulder not on the shoulder.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

His 6.5 with a Barnes (or perhaps other mono metal) bullet should do the trick if he waits for perfect broadside shot placement and places the bullet correctly. I’d be prepared to add a backup shot immediately if your PH advises it.

Mono metal bullets let us shoot bigger game than used to be sensible. My son has done great work, clean kills with Barnes out of his 243 on plenty of animals that traditionally would be considered too big for a 243.

That said, why push the envelope? He's a kid shooting a rifle appropriate to his time of life. Why not have him shoot appropriate game with it and give him something to look forward to when he grows some? If one of you has cancer or something that means this is probably a last trip, do whatever. But otherwise, what could be better than hunting with him where he is at any given point in life and being with him as he grows in strength and ability? They grow up incredibly fast- no need to hurry him along.

Our first trip to Africa, my son brought his 22 and had a blast shooting ground squirrels and guinea fowl. This summer, he is graduating college and we are booked for buffalo. We’ve enjoyed every trip between then and now. I doubt the ground squirrels would have been much fun if we had started with kudu. But on our first trip, they were incredible and I wouldn’t trade those ground squirrels for anything.

 

[pilar]

Did anyone ask if he reloads?

Has anyone tried to buy 7x57 factory ammo in the states
Even check midway USA … nothing.

Not even choice ammunition loads it. So I guess it’s Hendershots customs as your last option at 100 dollars a box?

This has been a funny thread
More than one way to skin a cat we sure figured that out!

I’m finding 7x57 ammo in 140 , 173, 175 grain
the latter two should work @ 200 or less yards, I personally would want to throw some weight at a eland, 170+ grain , practice with any type rifle then slip in the heavy duty lead slinger ( recoil is a after thought when a shooter is looking at game unless it’s extremely excessive)
when I have a hunter shooting a nilgai ( or other large animal) im like here blast him with my gun right in the shoulder, most folks don’t even care or think about a .300 or heavier rifle because it’s usually a one and done

 

[112Savage]

I find that 308 with 175’s, 280AI with 175’s , and 30-06 with 180’s have significantly more recoil than my 6.5 creedmoor.

If you reload, hornady does make a 140gr ECX which with superformance powder I can move at 2750-2800fps out of a 22” barrel. This is the deepest penetrating 6.5 creedmoor load I have found. I’ve only killed one doe with it at about 200yds and the blood trail was amazingly, ghastly, easy to follow. I would still feel it’s a bit light for elk/moose/eland etc.

This being said, I would work into a 30-06 starting with either reduced handloads or the Remington/ hornady reduced recoil loads and then move up once he grows and gets more comfortable. Moving from 125 to 150 to 165/8 then to 180’s.

I’m taking a 9 pound Dakota Safari with 175LRX’s to the eastern cape next time I go. Eland and Vaal Rhebok are my primary targets.

I do love my suppressors and think they really help with flinching and perceived recoil. I reloaded for my friend’s 7mm rem mag with a muzzle brake and shooting it next to my suppressed 280AI’s both with 175’s going 2900+\- was borderline annoying. His 7mm mag and 175 partition did tip over a 43” Canadian bull moose with one shot this year. That’s about the closest animal in size to an eland that I can give anecdotes about.

 

[Red Leg]

300 Win Mag, with some good Barnes bullets. It will do perfect for an eland.

Anything smaller would probably be too small, I would not want to go smaller then a 300.

And a really, really poor choice for a kid. A 7x57 does the job every year in Africa and has been doing it for more than a century. I have used mine up through sable (thank you very much @spike.t and @PeteG). With a 170-175 bullet it will do the job on an eland.

Did anyone ask if he reloads?

Has anyone tried to buy 7x57 factory ammo in the states
Even check midway USA … nothing.

Not even choice ammunition loads it. So I guess it’s Hendershots customs as your last option at 100 dollars a box?

This has been a funny thread
More than one way to skin a cat we sure figured that out!

I do not reload rifle and never much like surfing the web or Bass Pro shelves. Hendershots https://hendershots.net/ and other custom loaders will create whatever load is needed and will be a source for additional rounds as long as they remain in business. Lance has been doing this a while.

 

[fourfive8]

Sounds like you can get this done. I worked through an almost identical situation a few years ago with a 16 year old youngster who had never fired even a BB gun. He also is small. Use good hearing protection for certain. Drop any idea of a brake as posted earlier and I still like the 30-06 idea with suppressor. One thing I forgot in the earlier post is to make sure to have a scope that is easy to use for a new shooter and is mounted low enough for proper shouldering of the rifle. The greater the exit pupil the better. Plus the scope needs lots of eye relief for obvious reasons. A simple, lower power scope with a 4.5- 5” eye relief would be ideal.

After working my new shooter through lots of 22 practice, over time, I was able to work him up to shooting a 270 and eventually a 375 HH off the bench. That gave him no end of bragging rights at school where many of his buddies have grown up hunting deer and elk locally with most shooting 300 and 338 Mags

Good luck and work up slowly avoiding the pitfalls of too much recoil, muzzle blast of brakes and absolutely avoid him getting hit by a scope.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Did anyone ask if he reloads?

Has anyone tried to buy 7x57 factory ammo in the states
Even check midway USA … nothing.

Not even choice ammunition loads it. So I guess it’s Hendershots customs as your last option at 100 dollars a box?

This has been a funny thread
More than one way to skin a cat we sure figured that out!

I mentioned calibers we've taken eland with but failed to mention I was hunting just today in the states with my pet 757 Ackley improved. A wonderful gun that would work on all the world's game excepting the largest dangerous game. 173 to 175 grain slugs for the absolute best beef in Africa!!! Can shoot factory ammo in a pinch but it's got as much steam as a 280 Ackley improved and marginally under a 7 mm Magnum which is also a shortened 375 and 300 case which is a pleasure to shoot.

 

[Art Lambart II]

My son has been shooting a 6.5 x 55 Swede since he was 9 years old, he's now 13 and is 5’-5” and 130 lbs and can shoot a 30-06 without issue but he still prefers the Old Swede. This change didn't happen overnight we started slowly by moving up to a 270, then to a 308 and finally the 30-06. Every time we moved up in caliber I had him make his first few shots off shooting sticks before moving to the shooting bench. This method has never failed me and I'm sure when he's 15 he'll be shooting my 35 Whelen with little or no issues.

If you reload the 7x57 is a fantastic choice but in the US it's hard to find quality ammunition for classic African cartridges not named 375 H&H. If you want to stay with the 7mm family of cartridges I would recommend a 280 Remington or a 280 Ackley improved. Factory ammunition is readily available for both of those rounds and they can both handle 160 grain bullets with ease.

Good luck with your safari, I hope your son gets his Eland.

 

[dchum]

I do not reload rifle and never much like surfing the web or Bass Pro shelves. Hendershots https://hendershots.net/ and other custom loaders will create whatever load is needed and will be a source for additional rounds as long as they remain in business. Lance has been doing this a while.

Yes that is why in my comment I mention hendershots is sadly the only option left.

S&B 140gr are around… No thanks A few boxes of Federal blue box are in circulation but they are done making it. Neither of those are interesting to me

Hornady hasn’t made any of the 139sst it used to load in years. But that wasn’t much good for more than whitetail. That was the only 7x57 they made the last few years before covid

So unless you’re spending 100 dollars a box on custom at Hendershots. You are SOL.

It’s a shame truly but it’s the truth.

 

[jlb1036]

Go with a 30/06 200-220 grs bullets

 

[MS 9x56]

Did anyone ask if he reloads?

Has anyone tried to buy 7x57 factory ammo in the states
Even check midway USA … nothing.

Not even choice ammunition loads it. So I guess it’s Hendershots customs as your last option at 100 dollars a box?

This has been a funny thread
More than one way to skin a cat we sure figured that out!

I have bought Sellier & Bellot here in 140 and 173 grain recently.

 

[sureshot375]

He is 13 now, and we haven't got anything booked yet, guessing we won't make it until 2025, so we have some time. I am expecting him to grow, physically and in confidence by then. He already has a longer reach and bigger feet than me, just like a 100lbs lighter. I don't have any bolt rifles that are appropriate for him yet, so he usually sticks with 22lr and his 6.5 at the range. A suppressor is definitely on the agenda as is a lighter rifle for me. I was thinking about selling my 300 RUM and picking up something between a 7mm-08 and 280 AI. Whatever caliber I settle on it will be threaded for suppressor.

If he will be 15 or so by the time you hunt there shouldn’t be a problem getting him up to a bigger rifle. I would get him shooting as much as possible. Shotgun sports are a great way to get really comfortable handling a firearm a getting super comfortable with recoil.

I’ve been shooting a .375 since I was 12. Sounds like I may have had a similar build as your son. I was over 6’, but built like a sickly giraffe. I was however really into shotgun shooting. It was nothing for me to shoot 300 to 500 rounds per week. This helped more than anything to keep me from being recoil shy and to develop great form In handling a long gun in a way to minimize recoil.

I have a rifle suggestion for you. I have been super impressed with the Bergara Premier Highlander. It has a great stock, Custom quality action, trigger tech trigger, and a quality suppressor ready barrel. They have discontinued this model. I have seen them for sale recently in the 1,300.00 range. It cannot be beat for that price. I bought a couple in 6.5 prc and gave one to my sister who is also remarkably recoil sensitive. It’s shooting cloverleaf groups with factory ammo. She bought a suppressor for it and put it to good use on a big Kansas buck this week. They offered the highlander in a number of calibers that would work for your application.

Whatever you do, get that safari booked. I hope your daughter comes too. There is no better investment you can make in your children. My dad took me to Africa for the first time when I was 12 and it changed my life forever.

About 12 years ago my dad had a massive stroke when he was 56. He has needed 24/7 care since then, and I am his primary caretaker. It looks like I may end up spending more years taking care of him than he did raising me. His speech and language is very limited since his stroke. Every now and then when I’m sitting with him he will squeeze my hand and say “Boy, we did some things.” I know exactly what he’s talking about. I reply “We sure did Dad, we sure did….”

Here is photographic proof of skinny 12 year old sureshot375 with my dad and a kudu I took with a .375.

 

[bones]

Lots of good suggestions.
My 2c

There is a huge difference between a cow weighing 200kg dressed and a bull 500kg dressed.

There are little more fulfilling hunts than shooting the big blue bulls on foot.

It is not easy and usually requires a lot of stalking, and is not a given on a 5day hunt.
So he must be just as ready physically and mentally for the hunt, as shooting ready.

Enjoy the preparation! He will cherish the time spent with you more than the actual hunt.

 

[Mauser3000]

View attachment 572510
404 Jeffery - because that's what I had. Eland are large animals.

Can you tell us about your rifle. What action is it build on? GMA?

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

He is 13 now, and we haven't got anything booked yet, guessing we won't make it until 2025, so we have some time. I am expecting him to grow, physically and in confidence by then. He already has a longer reach and bigger feet than me, just like a 100lbs lighter. I don't have any bolt rifles that are appropriate for him yet, so he usually sticks with 22lr and his 6.5 at the range. A suppressor is definitely on the agenda as is a lighter rifle for me. I was thinking about selling my 300 RUM and picking up something between a 7mm-08 and 280 AI. Whatever caliber I settle on it will be threaded for suppressor.

You literally can't go wrong with a threaded and suppressed .308. I brought one to Zim and South Africa this year (18" carbon proof barrel, leupold VX5 3-15). Both PH's wanted the rifle after playing with it and seeing how light/compact it was (I didn't bring my can). I'm sure you're aware but the light gun for you is going to be more recoil more for him. You might need to have 2 different gun buys in your future as well as the suppressor. You should get the can bought and paperwork filed asap so you can begin the hurry-up and wait process.

 

[1dirthawker]

.the 30-06 is a great cartridge but the 7x57mm is greater..

ivw,

i rarely disagree with you, simply because you have a lot more experience with all things hunting than i. that said, (and i am not a FAN of the 30-06) not greater, just different. slightly lower recoil, adequate for lots of stuff, better...nah. a 30-06 with 220's is really hard to beat for bigger stuff (like an eland). i do agree with you tho, a 175gr in a 7x57 would be plenty for an eland. that said, I'm gonna shoot a 375 h&h at mine this spring.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Can you tell us about your rifle. What action is it build on? GMA?

The rifle was built by Reto Buehler on a magnum length small ring DSB GMA action with a 23" PacNor barrel. It weighs 10lbs. 3 oz. ready to hunt, about 9 lbs. without the scope and QD rings fitted. It is an accurate rifle and I have confidence in it.

 

[dchum]

I have bought Sellier & Bellot here in 140 and 173 grain recently.

And you’re happy with that being your factory ammo option? That’s it!

 

[WAB]

And you’re happy with that being your factory ammo option? That’s it!

Nosler has a very good load as well.

 

[dchum]

Nosler has a very good load as well.

Go try and find some….

I’m not making this up. Sadly the US manufactures have moved on from the 7x57