Double Rifle Regulating Question

[ACM]

In need of some opinions from those experienced!

How are you guys shooting your double rifles when working up regulating loads?

Currently I have only been shooting off the bench with sand bags (I despise sleds). Wanting to know if instead I should be shooting off sticks. I understand how barrel time & recoil can change things.

I have recently purchased my first double rifle, a Heym 89B 450 3-1/4”. I have not yet had the chance to spend much time developing loads for this gun, but I have shot several rounds of same bullet with different powder charge. Luckily I have yielded some acceptable groups, but I am the type to keep tinkering with things (because I enjoy it). Also I have been searching for a copy of “Shooting the British Double Rifle”, but have had no success.
Thank you for any advice.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

In need of some opinions from those experienced!

How are you guys shooting your double rifles when working up regulating loads?

Currently I have only been shooting off the bench with sand bags (I despise sleds). Wanting to know if instead I should be shooting off sticks. I understand how barrel time & recoil can change things.

I have recently purchased my first double rifle, a Heym 89B 450 3-1/4”. I have not yet had the chance to spend much time developing loads for this gun, but I have shot several rounds of same bullet with different powder charge. Luckily I have yielded some acceptable groups, but I am the type to keep tinkering with things (because I enjoy it). Also I have been searching for a copy of “Shooting the British Double Rifle”, but have had no success.
Thank you for any advice.

Contact @Dewald on the group, he may have one left.

As to regulating there is no point adding in any more variables. What you want is accurate shooting, so rest the forend in your hand, rest your hand on the sandbags.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Ideally you should shoot off sticks as you would in hunting.
That is important so that the pressure on the different parts of the rifle, such as the forend and barrels, are the same.

If you are like me you will do a lot of shooting to get the rifle as accurate and the points of impact to converge, or maybe the projectiles will remain parallel forever! For that, I would shoot off the sticks for two rounds from each barrel. Then when the barrels cool, try if from the bench being as careful to emulate the gun on sticks as you can. To make my body sway like a willow tree under recoil, I kneel at the bench keeping my body loose.

If you find your bench shooting is close to shooting off the sticks, pick the easier method. For the final part, do however shoot as you would in hunting conditions.

Maybe, just maybe the body's resistance to recoil affects the points of impact of the barrels as much or more than pressure exerted on the barrels? Hmmm, something to test...

 

[AZDAVE]

When developing loads I kinda use a improvised standing bench. I take 3 5 gallon home depot buckets, stack them together and put on top of the range bench (You might need less or more buckets depending on how tall you are, I then put a small coleman camping pillow on top to the buckets. I have always shot my double with my hand between what ever the rest is and the forend of the rifle. I grip the rifle just like I would if shooting it offhand. that way I have the same interaction with the double no matter what rest I am using.

 

[Philip Glass]

In need of some opinions from those experienced!

How are you guys shooting your double rifles when working up regulating loads?

Currently I have only been shooting off the bench with sand bags (I despise sleds). Wanting to know if instead I should be shooting off sticks. I understand how barrel time & recoil can change things.

I have recently purchased my first double rifle, a Heym 89B 450 3-1/4”. I have not yet had the chance to spend much time developing loads for this gun, but I have shot several rounds of same bullet with different powder charge. Luckily I have yielded some acceptable groups, but I am the type to keep tinkering with things (because I enjoy it). Also I have been searching for a copy of “Shooting the British Double Rifle”, but have had no success.
Thank you for any advice.

I have been shooting mine off my Blaser quad sticks. Maybe those quad sticks with the extra leg for stability would be the ideal?

 

[Velo Dog]

I have had good luck with shooting hard kickers, including two double rifles.
One was in caliber .375 H&H and one was in .450 No2 NE, by standing and using the fold out paint can shelf on a 6 foot, common “A - frame” type of ladder.

After placing a sand bag (in my case, a bean bag), on top of the bucket shelf, I grip the rifle as I would for normal off hand shots.
Then, I rest the back of my support hand on the bag and settle down for the Big Kaboomski.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Standing bench and African Sporting Creations Tripod Flys Eye shooting sticks

Fly's Eye® Tripod Shooting Sticks

Check out the deal on Fly's Eye® Tripod Shooting Sticks at African Sporting Creations

www.africansportingcreations.com

 

[Altitude sickness]

Nice set up Mark. I’ve looked into the Labradar
Still use a Caldwell though.

 

[ftrovato]

I'm told by Ralph Martini (Gun Builder in Canda) who was involved in the design of the Heym 89B Double Rifle the following. Fire Right barrel first. Then around 7 seconds later, fire the Left barrel. When doubles are built (at least Heym) that is how they are regulated. Right barrel is shot cold, Left barrel is shot and regulated to temperature transfer from firing Right barrel 7 seconds earlier.
At least I believe that is how he explained regulation & grouping to me.

 

[grand veneur]

In need of some opinions from those experienced!

How are you guys shooting your double rifles when working up regulating loads?

Currently I have only been shooting off the bench with sand bags (I despise sleds). Wanting to know if instead I should be shooting off sticks. I understand how barrel time & recoil can change things.

I have recently purchased my first double rifle, a Heym 89B 450 3-1/4”. I have not yet had the chance to spend much time developing loads for this gun, but I have shot several rounds of same bullet with different powder charge. Luckily I have yielded some acceptable groups, but I am the type to keep tinkering with things (because I enjoy it). Also I have been searching for a copy of “Shooting the British Double Rifle”, but have had no success.
Thank you for any advice.

On bench and sand bags to avoid mistakes on the part of the shooter as much as possible. With sticks it is not so safe in my opinion.

I do it with my DR caliber 577NE and 600NE, sure not easy, but it works too, and that's why it is definitely easier with DR smaller calibers.

SHOOTING the BRITISH DOUBLE RIFLE Graeme Wright 3rd Edition

 

[Rare Breed]

In need of some opinions from those experienced!

How are you guys shooting your double rifles when working up regulating loads?

Currently I have only been shooting off the bench with sand bags (I despise sleds). Wanting to know if instead I should be shooting off sticks. I understand how barrel time & recoil can change things.

I have recently purchased my first double rifle, a Heym 89B 450 3-1/4”. I have not yet had the chance to spend much time developing loads for this gun, but I have shot several rounds of same bullet with different powder charge. Luckily I have yielded some acceptable groups, but I am the type to keep tinkering with things (because I enjoy it). Also I have been searching for a copy of “Shooting the British Double Rifle”, but have had no success.
Thank you for any advice.

The key is having a steady secure rest short of a sled…you have a steadier rest with sand bags than using sticks. Even with my Blazer 2.0 swivel four point sticks sand bags are more stable for regulation work. I am sure you already know so just a reminder do not let the barrels make contact with anything only the forend. JJ Perodeau probably the best DR gunsmith told me never to “hot rod” a DR load. He said and in my 5 DRs I found he is correct between 2050 to 2100 is the best regulation loads. Ken Owen who did one of my DRs said the same.

 

[Rare Breed]

Also for the recoil sensiti

The key is having a steady secure rest short of a sled…you have a steadier rest with sand bags than using sticks. Even with my Blazer 2.0 swivel four point sticks sand bags are more stable for regulation work. I am sure you already know so just a reminder do not let the barrels make contact with anything only the forend. JJ Perodeau probably the best DR gunsmith told me never to “hot rod” a DR load. He said and in my 5 DRs I found he is correct between 2050 to 2100 is the best regulation loads. Ken Owen who did one of my DRs said the same.

Also for the recoil sensitive, for the most part Ken Owen taught me the least grains of powder producing your desired FPS the less felt recoil…he is correct. As an example for one of my 500 NE DR he regulated it with just 80 grains of IMR3031 and the recoil was very manageable producing 2052 FPS. H4831SC took 112 grains to produce the same 2052 FPS. The difference in felt recoil was considerable with the latter. Hope that helps

 

[Rare Breed]

Ideally you should shoot off sticks as you would in hunting.
That is important so that the pressure on the different parts of the rifle, such as the forend and barrels, are the same.

If you are like me you will do a lot of shooting to get the rifle as accurate and the points of impact to converge, or maybe the projectiles will remain parallel forever! For that, I would shoot off the sticks for two rounds from each barrel. Then when the barrels cool, try if from the bench being as careful to emulate the gun on sticks as you can. To make my body sway like a willow tree under recoil, I kneel at the bench keeping my body loose.

If you find your bench shooting is close to shooting off the sticks, pick the easier method. For the final part, do however shoot as you would in hunting conditions.

Maybe, just maybe the body's resistance to recoil affects the points of impact of the barrels as much or more than pressure exerted on the barrels? Hmmm, something to test...

Completely agree with Mark…I always shoot off sticks as a “final” test just the sand bags to start take out more of the “person” moving in the equation

 

[WAB]

The key is having a steady secure rest short of a sled…you have a steadier rest with sand bags than using sticks. Even with my Blazer 2.0 swivel four point sticks sand bags are more stable for regulation work. I am sure you already know so just a reminder do not let the barrels make contact with anything only the forend. JJ Perodeau probably the best DR gunsmith told me never to “hot rod” a DR load. He said and in my 5 DRs I found he is correct between 2050 to 2100 is the best regulation loads. Ken Owen who did one of my DRs said the same.

The Brit’s use an actual standing bench rest for heavy rifles. I’ll try to remember to take a picture the next Tim I am at the H&H range.

 

[ACM]

Thank you all for your input!
Found the time to shoot today. I ended up shooting off the bench w/ sandbag while gripping the forend like I would in a hunting situation. Found a great load as you can see below at 50yds.
At 100yds it was 3.5”, but Left & Right stayed true.
I’m also shooting with a Trijicon RMR which I may not have been as accurate with at 100yds. My right barrel POI is consistently higher than the left regardless of what load I put together.
After this picture I then fired a left/Right off-hand & was pleased.
These two groups were shot back to back with only 6-10 seconds between right & left barrel.
Do the AH double fanatics approve?

 

[Rare Breed]

Thank you all for your input!
Found the time to shoot today. I ended up shooting off the bench w/ sandbag while gripping the forend like I would in a hunting situation. Found a great load as you can see below at 50yds.
At 100yds it was 3.5”, but Left & Right stayed true.
I’m also shooting with a Trijicon RMR which I may not have been as accurate with at 100yds. My right barrel POI is consistently higher than the left regardless of what load I put together.
After this picture I then fired a left/Right off-hand & was pleased.
These two groups were shot back to back with only 6-10 seconds between right & left barrel.
Do the AH double fanatics approve?View attachment 548744

You are good to go my friend!!! Well done! Move forward!

 

[ftrovato]

Thank you all for your input!
Found the time to shoot today. I ended up shooting off the bench w/ sandbag while gripping the forend like I would in a hunting situation. Found a great load as you can see below at 50yds.
At 100yds it was 3.5”, but Left & Right stayed true.
I’m also shooting with a Trijicon RMR which I may not have been as accurate with at 100yds. My right barrel POI is consistently higher than the left regardless of what load I put together.
After this picture I then fired a left/Right off-hand & was pleased.
These two groups were shot back to back with only 6-10 seconds between right & left barrel.
Do the AH double fanatics approve?View attachment 548744

Fine shooting. How do you like the red dot?

 

[ACM]

Fine shooting. How do you like the red dot?

Thank you, I got lucky finding a load that shot well.
I like the RMR. The only problem I have with it is that sometimes, when the sunlight is right, the lens fills with red colored reflections & it makes it harder to see through. I’m not sure if this is just a problem with mine, or all of them. I will say mine is the RMR 2 LED w/ red coating on the lens.
I really enjoy shooting the open sights & will most likely hunt with them. The RMR helped a tremendous amount in regards to the handloading/regulating process. I feel it is worth the money just for that alone.

 

[358 Norma]

The key is having a steady secure rest short of a sled…you have a steadier rest with sand bags than using sticks. Even with my Blazer 2.0 swivel four point sticks sand bags are more stable for regulation work. I am sure you already know so just a reminder do not let the barrels make contact with anything only the forend. JJ Perodeau probably the best DR gunsmith told me never to “hot rod” a DR load. He said and in my 5 DRs I found he is correct between 2050 to 2100 is the best regulation loads. Ken Owen who did one of my DRs said the same.

That is exactly what JJ told me, and it worked for my Chapuis Elan 470 Nitro and 500gr Swift A-frames! Chronograph right at 2048 feet per second regulated
at two inches apart at 50 yards, this is the load I will use for my Cape Buffalo hunt next June!

 

[geoff rath]

A complete "NEWBIE" with a D/R; this thread is well worth saving, just in case ...