Crocodile Infestation Worry Chief Mpindi

[Kevin Peacocke]

The African folks have a somewhat fatalistic attitude towards crocs. As Sue said, protective charms are worn and when someone is taken it was because they misbehaved. Kariba's eastern basin, especially Charara and Gache Gache must hold some sort of record. People are taken regularly, three in early October when we were there. Still they carry on fishing while standing in the water, or netting from tiny boats.

 

[Sue Tidwell]

I'd be very happy to buy a signed copy

The youngsters I work with are both inner city and rural here in the UK

The owner of the reserve in Moz - one of the Coutadas - likes to us work with / bring the inner city kids

I think he is very much a rogue at heart

We offer the service to all - from both sides of the pond

All money (and I mean all as I pay my own way and take no fees) goes to the reserve for conservation

Sorry, I saw your other replay first. So you are in the UK. Wow, that is the perfect place that NEEDS kids to learn about the reality of conservation in Africa. The anti's there are horrible! Which Coutada do you work in. I just read Bringing back the lions about the lion introduction etc into Coutada 11. What a story that is. That would also be a great educational book to use. I'm going to post a review of it today. I would love to send you a signed copy of Cries of the Savanna but the shipping is about $40 to the UK (priority international). You can buy a signed copy on my website at www.suetidwell.com. Also, this week I am having an eBook promotion on the American amazon. (.com). It is only $2.99. In fact, I need to do a post about that. Amazon allows a promotion once every three months. I don't make much, if anything, (the promos cost money to advertise) but it gets the book into the hands of more readers (hopefully non-hunters!).

 

[Sue Tidwell]

The African folks have a somewhat fatalistic attitude towards crocs. As Sue said, protective charms are worn and when someone is taken it was because they misbehaved. Kariba's eastern basin, especially Charara and Gache Gache must hold some sort of record. People are taken regularly, three in early October when we were there. Still they carry on fishing while standing in the water, or netting from tiny boats.

Hi Kevin, Which country is the Kariba basin you are talking about? Just curious. Yes, I was in total disbelief to see the nonchalance of the people in and near the croc-infested water. The pictures that our PH Rich had were horrific. Thank goodness, that there were some wells away from the river so that they didn't ALL have to go to the Zambezi for water. Still, there were plenty of fisherman and women doing laundry.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Hi Kevin, Which country is the Kariba basin you are talking about? Just curious. Yes, I was in total disbelief to see the nonchalance of the people in and near the croc-infested water. The pictures that our PH Rich had were horrific. Thank goodness, that there were some wells away from the river so that they didn't ALL have to go to the Zambezi for water. Still, there were plenty of fisherman and women doing laundry.

Lake Kariba is on the Zambezi, it is shared by Zambia and Zimbabwe.

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Lake Kariba is on the Zambezi, it is shared by Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Thank you Kevin. Now that you say that, I do believe I have heard of the lake.

 

[spike.t]

Thank you Kevin. Now that you say that, I do believe I have heard of the lake.

Hope so it's the biggest man made body of water in the world....

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Hope so it's the biggest man made body of water in the world....

I should know that!

 

[bowjijohn]

There are arial photos I've seen of some of the floating homes on Kariba

The image shows the dark shapes of rather large croc presumably lying on the bottom surrounding the homes

Quite an image !

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Interesting

now this could be a genuine problem

Or …

It could be increased predation as a consequence of human migration into new areas

it could be as a consequence of increased human presence in general

it could be as a consequence of wildlife changes brought about by any numbers of factors- usually human in origin

It could be a desire for financial compensation

PS - I’m not aware of any “palaces” amongst most local cultures in Zambia

In fact - other than on Hollywood films, I never hear the expression used

More likely, too many big crocs in a human occupied area due to a lack of croc hunting. Thinning the number would help. The victims are people, with families. Hunting could help. Blaming the victims doesn't.

 

[spike.t]

More likely, too many big crocs in a human occupied area due to a lack of croc hunting. Thinning the number would help. The victims are people, with families. Hunting could help. Blaming the victims doesn't.

So.....think the crocs were there long before people....and again on one of these threads about crocs eating people....the thought is hammer the crocs.....I honestly give up....some people who actually live here have tried to explain how it is.....but

 

[Doug Hamilton]

So.....think the crocs were there long before people....and again on one of these threads about crocs eating people....the thought is hammer the crocs.....I honestly give up....some people who actually live here have tried to explain how it is.....but

You may have a point, but I see people in the US constantly trying to blame victims when they are attacked by animals and it annoys me. Mountain lions, wolves and grizzly bears are now showing up in place s where they haven't been seen in over a hundred years and now they attack people and livestock. One woman who my close friend and his wife knew was killed by a cat while she was jogging. We had two horses killed by another. Neighboring ranches have lost many sheep and a few cattle

 

[Doug Hamilton]

You may have a point, but I see people in the US constantly trying to blame victims when they are attacked by animals and it annoys me. Mountain lions, wolves and grizzly bears are now showing up in place s where they haven't been seen in over a hundred years and now they attack people and livestock. One woman who my close friend and his wife knew was killed by a cat while she was jogging. We had two horses killed by another. Neighboring ranches have lost many sheep and a few cattle

Sorry (the dog jumped on me before I was finished). In the case of our horses, the cat was killed after the second raid. One response in a local newspaper to the lion being killed was, "Those ranchers had no right to kill that poor mountain lion for eating two horses, after all that's why God put them there." And of course there were many stating that we had moved in on their territory. Sound familiar? The ranch has been in our family for over a hundred years. We've always had the odd cat around but the area can only support so many.

No one wants to see any species driven to extinction but an over population of any animal may require some control. I would think you would know that.

 

[R.M.C.]

So.....think the crocs were there long before people....and again on one of these threads about crocs eating people....the thought is hammer the crocs.....I honestly give up....some people who actually live here have tried to explain how it is.....but

What do you think would help the situation? Is there anything that might actually help out in the real world? Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[WAB]

What do you think would help the situation? Is there anything that might actually help out in the real world? Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

When I first hunted the upper Luangwa the head tracker had just lost his son to a crock. As we drove by his village the PH pointed out the spot where the child was taken. There were ten or twelve children playing in the water!

As others have mentioned, there is a very fatalistic attitude about the whole thing among the locals. I don’t see how you can possibly blame the croc.

My buddy was waiting for a flight out on a goat hunt in Kenai. The pilot was late because he had done a fly over and found what was left of Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend. I don’t think anyone blamed the bear for the demise of that fellow. It kinda falls into the ‘f&@$ around and find out’ category.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

What do you think would help the situation? Is there anything that might actually help out in the real world? Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

In Belize they have few attacks by American crocs. It is now illegal to kill a croc for any reason. As the numbers increase and the live ones get bigger the rate of attacks are on the increase. After 12 feet they begin eating people. Most Belizians depend on being able to enter the water (unlike Nile crocs, American crocs are very salt water tolerant). One man was killed in a lagoon where my wife and I regularly wade to fly fish. One young guy was spear fishing with my friend's son was ripped badly but he was able to fight off the croc with his spear until my friend's son could pull him into the boat. He survived but it took a lot of surgery. More big crocs equals more attacks but being much narrower across the mouth and head I think that fatalities will remain fairly rare. If fatalities increase I would expect the government to start allowing some limited hunting.

I know things are different in Africa, and educating the locals to stop feeding themselves to the crocs would help. Long term, human population control would also.help (like that will happen in Africa!). In the meantime, I think taking out the largest and/or aggressive individuals is the only solution.

Of course, the fact that I personally hate crocs and stay away from open water in Africa may have something to do with.my views on the subject. They scare the shit out of me!

 

[PeteG]

What do you think would help the situation? Is there anything that might actually help out in the real world? Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

Best thing we can do at the moment is move the crocs to another less populated area.
We cannot stop the population boom nor stop the locals using the waterways.
I am all for hunting crocs, but in areas where there are only a few left and hunting is not allowed or an option, rather move them to more protected areas.

a great example is where our business has been based on like Tanganyika for the last 30+ years.
we used to regularly see 16-18’ crocs in the national park. We also used to see them often out of the park around our place. Through the years and the often reported attacks and fatalities, the number of crocs that have been killed is rather large.
now when we go into the parks there are hardly any crocs left due to these killings and death by drowning in fishing nets.

the other point is I would wager that there are more crocs killed by fishermen than fishermen killed by crocs.

 

[spike.t]

Yup....fishermen spear any caught in nets....and there are a lot of nets in the waters.....majority of which are illegal....guess who brings them in and sells them.....starts with Ch.....

 

[spike.t]

What do you think would help the situation? Is there anything that might actually help out in the real world? Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

Actually not sure.....as @WAB said people will be in the water in same place or in canoes doing same thing straight after someone is taken.....with the massive population explosion happening in African countries including here, the crocs will in a fairly short time lose out and dissappear from a large portion of the waterways they inhabit now. Called progress......as in how dangerous animals were in the most part annihilated in Europe and large parts of usa, and other countries.....

 

[bowjijohn]

If you think that Southern Africa is any less complex than you’re own home, then you are missing out

when hunters go to the hunting concessions, they play a hugely important role

when you go, try and look behind the extravagance your hosts provide

the true gem is playing a sympathetic and knowledgeable role in the cultural, political and conservational dynamics of the country

Get a glimpse of those, and you are more than a wallet, more than a tourist, you become an important asset

j

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Sorry (the dog jumped on me before I was finished). In the case of our horses, the cat was killed after the second raid. One response in a local newspaper to the lion being killed was, "Those ranchers had no right to kill that poor mountain lion for eating two horses, after all that's why God put them there." And of course there were many stating that we had moved in on their territory. Sound familiar? The ranch has been in our family for over a hundred years. We've always had the odd cat around but the area can only support so many.

No one wants to see any species driven to extinction but an over population of any animal may require some control. I would think you would know that.

Well said Doug. It is easy to point fingers until you are the one on the ground living with the animals and wildlife. Like you say, no one wants a species driven to extinction...especially hunters....but ALL wildlife must be managed. My in-laws also lost a horse to a mountain lion years back. A couple years ago, we watched a mountain lion stalking the cattle from our window. Rick of course had a tag and went into action. Even though there is one less, there are still plenty of cats in the area. They also lose calves to coyotes and now wolves have moved into the area so this calving season may be quite interesting.