Cheap Rifles and Hypocrisy

[whatjeffhunts]

@whatjeffhunts
I wouldn't have a ruger American If'n you gave it to me. The reason is a gent at my local range bought one in 243. Second shot at the range and the bolt handle broke off after the second shot. It was replaced under warranty with another new rifle. Dam thing didn't even fire the 1st shot. The bolt handle broke while chambering the first round.
Enough said
Bob
I was there to see it first hand on both occasions as he was on the bench beside me

Things happen. Sold a kid his first handgun last week, Glock 17. No one will say glocks aren’t reliable. First shot his fire pin safety pin snapped in half. Doesn’t mean all Glocks are bad, means you got a lemon.

 

[whatjeffhunts]

I've had less than perfect success in the past with some of the lower cost rifles and especially low dollar Chinese scopes.

A friend bought a Remington 770 with a no name scope (Looks.like a Bushnell Banner) a few years and over a dozen deer ago for his son and other than tightening the scope bases/mounts and removing the sealer goop and adjusting the trigger it's still just as delivered. He was kidding me about just how much actual shooting experience I had with the newest generation of budget rifles.

I went with the Savage Axis XP .308 Win because it was the cheapest available combo, has enough recoil to put a reasonable load on the scope and is currently the most available cartridge in hunting loads.

I am not at all surprised that you have had good luck with the Ruger American with the Philippine built Nikon. However that would have felt a little to much like cheating in this case.

Had a friend get a 770 to as his first rifle… absolute garbage. But… Remington did go outside business so they weren’t really putting out quality. They sent us guns, we would open the box to check them and I kid you not we had 700s missing triggers…

 

[2L8]

@2L8
From memory the axis has the Savage accutrigger that can be adjusted down to 2 pound.
Bob

It's the cheaper "Axis' version that doesn't have the Accu Trigger like the "Axis II" but my understanding is you can tune it down to the 2.5-3.5 lb range with a couple of bucks worth of parts (or possibly just a spring trim) while still keeping it drop safe, they are supposed to be 6 lb triggers out of the box but apparently vary by about 2 lb +/- that. I can usually work with any trigger 5 lb or less as long as it's reasonably smooth.

It does have the new Ergo stock that is supposed to be stiffer in the wrist and forend. It's also supposed to have the redesigned magazine with the Ruger American style steel spring type latch.

I'm still waiting for it to arrive from the warehouse as the local Cabela's only had it in stock in .223.

 

[2L8]

Had a friend get a 770 to as his first rifle… absolute garbage. But… Remington did go outside business so they weren’t really putting out quality. They sent us guns, we would open the box to check them and I kid you not we had 700s missing triggers…

I've heard all the stories and seen issues at the rang but like I said the one my buddy bought has been flawless. The press in barrel would be a no go for me but it's not like Sig Sauer hasn't done the same thing.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Things happen. Sold a kid his first handgun last week, Glock 17. No one will say glocks aren’t reliable. First shot his fire pin safety pin snapped in half. Doesn’t mean all Glocks are bad, means you got a lemon.

@whatjeffhunts
One lemon fair enough but not 2.
Bob

 

[HWL]

Life is too short to hunt with a non perfect gun......

Every single moment you hunt is a valuable one - do not damage it with a marginal equipment.


HWL

 

[Jörg Krüger]

What is your guys take on the Hawke scopes?

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

@2L8
From memory the axis has the Savage accutrigger that can be adjusted down to 2 pound.
Bob

The Axis doesn't have the Accutrigger. The Axis II does.

 

[Ray B]

this last Thurs to Sunday I spent as mentor to a first time hunter- a 15 yo boy. He had an Axis. It may have been an Axis II. whatever it was, it was reliable, accurate and resulted in his first deer. the only fault I have with those Savages is the process to remove the bolt. I have to try two or three variations of pulling and pushing to get the bolt out and back in.

 

[sgt_zim]

is there any appreciable difference between Savage 10/110, from say 1998, and an Axis manufactured this year? No accutrigger, no accustock, no accufit. I know Savage has changed a few things, but in my mind, it's the same gun from 20 years ago. That isn't a bad thing. All of my older Savages shoot just as true as the new ones do.

 

[Challer]

It's my observation that the typical American Win/Rem hunter would be appalled at what many Europeans are willing to pay for guns/glass. Of course there are exceptions and my game rifles are all European for example. Likewise the Europeans are shocked by our cost for suppressors.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

is there any appreciable difference between Savage 10/110, from say 1998, and an Axis manufactured this year? No accutrigger, no accustock, no accufit. I know Savage has changed a few things, but in my mind, it's the same gun from 20 years ago. That isn't a bad thing. All of my older Savages shoot just as true as the new ones do.

@sgt zim
The Savage 110 is a long action and the 10 is a short action. The Stevens 200 is the old Savage 110 but for some reason is cheaper again than the axis. In Oz I can get a Stevens 200 in 25 ought six for 450 bucks Australian, less than 380 bucks US. They may not be a pretty action but dang they shoot.
When my Stevens was a 270 it shot almost as well as my custom built 25. Ther was only a quarter inch difference at 200 yards o.8 inches compared to a bit over an inch for the 270.
Bob

 

[Firebird]

In my several days a week “off” I take guns for people and work up hand loads for them. Part of this process is improving overall performance of the whole system. I have had three I think of these come through my door and here (echoing what has already been said) is my experience-
1. Toss the scope and mounts-get what you pay for and go ahead and do not go cheap here!
2. New stock! The plastic ones are awful and built too thin on the front end to do a great job of bedding/reinforcing
3. Not a fan of the accutrigger-replace it and move on. I always have a true gunsmith do this-it is a safety factor, not just a performance issue.
4. Savage builds an unusually complicated bolt. Be prepared to order new springs and /or screws. They have been excellent to deal with over the phone-but still. . .
Barrels are great-I’ve never had one that I couldn’t get to shoot very well. Nice thing. About upgrades or improvements is they can be done as you can afford them-but failure in the field is un affordable-do what you can now to avoid it!

 

[sgt_zim]

@sgt zim
The Savage 110 is a long action and the 10 is a short action. The Stevens 200 is the old Savage 110 but for some reason is cheaper again than the axis. In Oz I can get a Stevens 200 in 25 ought six for 450 bucks Australian, less than 380 bucks US. They may not be a pretty action but dang they shoot.
When my Stevens was a 270 it shot almost as well as my custom built 25. Ther was only a quarter inch difference at 200 yards o.8 inches compared to a bit over an inch for the 270.
Bob

Sort of. Then we have the (now discontinued, I believe) model 116 which I know was available in 308, and I assume (I don't own one, my son does) available in LA calibers, too.

 

[Ray B]

The Savage that I wanted but never saw one in a store was the 16 (I think) classic in 250 Sav chambering. I suppose I could find one on gunBroker or some such, but doing so is out of my comfort zone.

 

[Rob404]

What is your guys take on the Hawke scopes?

I have one and sent it in for warranty work, they sent it back and told me there was nothing wrong with it. If you want a good inexpensive scope buy yourself a Vortex they have a lifetime warranty and stand behind there product

 

[Rob404]

Cheap,, I was in my local Cabelas a year ago picking up a used Shotgun and the guy shows me a Zastava M70 in 7-08 for 499.00 I wasn't, that interested so I asked him for the Geezer discount and he said OK 399.00, how do you turn down a CRF all wood stock for 400.00 . I know Zastavas are basically decent rifles and that they all need a little TLC, mine had some feeding issues so I sent it in for warranty work. I adjusted the trigger and re-finished the stock and installed a scope on it and took it to the range. Turns out its a very good shooter

 

[2L8]

Sort of. Then we have the (now discontinued, I believe) model 116 which I know was available in 308, and I assume (I don't own one, my son does) available in LA calibers, too.

Maybe I have it all wrong but I thought the .308 Winchester Stainless used to be a Model 16 since it was short action?


At any rate as I understand it they are renaming the various models that were based on the 110. Where they were using 10,11,12,14,16 to define different categories of short action and changing it to 1xx to define long actions I believe they are all simply going to be designated 110 now.

 

[sgt_zim]

Pretty sure it is a 116. I remember when I bought it for him, I thought it odd that a 308 was getting a 3-digit model number.

 

[colorado]

Years ago, my daughter and I were at a gun show in Ft Worth and she saw what we thought was an exotic , left handed expensive rifle with a Leupold scope. Further examination revealed a very nice high grade walnut stock with recoil pad on a left handed Savage 110. JUST what we wanted and I bought it. It also shot sub minute of angle! It is very effective on deer, hogs and such.

A couple years later at the same show looking for a left handed elk rifle, she found it. A left handed Weatherby Mark V WHBY 7 mm Wby Magnum with a Leupold scope with 50 mm objective - clear as a bell and an excellent big game rifle. It looked new and the seller told us the owner could not shoot good groups with it. Turns out the the bore was very dirty and after a through cleaning, it is a keeper

Both rifles shoot sub MOA and were excellent buys. She later took a mule deer at 400 yards with one shot. Just a god rifle that had not been properly cared for.

What did you get the copper out with? I bought a very used Mark V in 270 Weatherby several years ago. I'm sure it's copper fouled even though I've cleaned it more than a few times.