"Cheap" Hunts

[Hank2211]

As for checking and finding that bad service normally ends with the problem coming from a cheaper hunt. It is just as likely the client caused some of the problem. Sometimes clients look for cheap but think they should be getting the same value as a guy paying double the cost. The lack of common sense is more then likely the cause of the problem. I think it is human nature to want the most for your money but asking for to much after going the cheapest way is not fair. Common sense being used will stop a lot of bad happening to you when booking a hunt.

Billc is right about this, at least much of the time. Many problems with hunts could be addressed with better communication. If Outfitters were clear and clients read or listened and understood, then there would be far fewer of these issues. Clients have different needs and wants, as well as means, so it is quite normal for markets to segment to address those varying needs. Unfortunately, many outfitters sell the romance and not the reality, and hunters, particularly first timers, buy into the romance because that's what's driving them to Africa in the first place (it sure isn't to fill the freezer).

However, there is another angle on this. People talk about cost structures, profit margins, etc., and these are certainly important matters, for the longer term. I think the reality is that we see some people who - for whatever reason - want to break into the game, or want to increase market share, deliberately underprice hunts as a short term strategy. The problem, of course, is that others may feel obliged to respond in kind, and what was intended as a short term strategy to grab market share or whatever becomes the new normal. I think we see some of this in the pricing of lion hunts, as just one example. And the "no day rate" situation as another.

The fact that we all say that this issue has been beaten to death, but then proceed to continue to beat it to death (and I include myself in that) suggests to me that we haven't yet found a consensus. So let the discussion continue!

 

[siml]

$83 for a bushbuck, must be nuts...can I have deatils, will buy them all for my kids and their mates to hunt.

 

[BRICKBURN]

$83 for a bushbuck, must be nuts...can I have deatils, will buy them all for my kids and their mates to hunt.

Exactly, makes me nervous to. My guess would be there are not a whole lot of Bushbuck to be had at that price but it certainly looks interesting at first glance.

 

[BRICKBURN]

...........
The fact that we all say that this issue has been beaten to death, but then proceed to continue to beat it to death (and I include myself in that) suggests to me that we haven't yet found a consensus. So let the discussion continue!

Cheers to that.

Keep on it.



The more discussion the merrier.

 

[Norwegianwoods]

As others have said.
The topic cheap hunts have been beaten to death and then some more on this forum already.

I am not looking for cheap.
I am looking for value for money.
And then I want to get the best deal possible.

I am not willing to pay the full price for a 5 star lodging when I am totally fine with a 1 or 2 star.
I am not willing to pay extra for a huge staff being there to cater for for all sorts of wants and needs as I am totally capable and willing to do most of it myself.
I go to Africa to hunt and I want to experience as much high quality hunting as possible for my money and to me is that not related to high scoring trophies and luxury lodges.

Personally I will never book a $450 day rate PG hunt.
And I will never book a hunt where there is a sliding trophy fee scale.

 

[TokkieM]

Mmmmm $83 for a Bushbuck? Maybe if you can find one then?

 

[johnnyblues]

It's called "Capitalism", "Supply and Demand" etc.. The hunting industry is like all others that utilize this system. Just stroll around SCI in Vegas to see what I mean. There are well off hunters that do not worry about the cost, just the reputation of the PH/Outfitter. There are mid-level hunters that look for the right PH/Outfitter that fits the country/price/animals that he's looking for. Then there is the budget hunter that looks to get to Africa at the lowest costs possible and still have the experience. Is one better than the other? Is one right and the others wrong? No to both. On the other hand, is one PH/Outfitter wrong for tailoring his business to the "well off" hunter by offering premium areas and game at a premium price? Is one PH/Outfitter wrong for going for volume of budget minded hunters by offering so called, "cheap" hunts? Again, the answer is no. This is the way it works in most successful economies around the world. Point being that there is room for all of these in the hunting market in Africa. The different clientele will migrate to what fits them the best.

Well said..

 

[johnnyblues]

I can only speak for myself. Since this year will be my first trip to Africa I looked for a quality hunt at a "reasonable price". Now I understand booking a leopard hunt as one's first safari is not the first choice of many hunters but this is an animal that has steadily gone up in price over the years and I don't think it's coming down anytime soon. I looked at hunts for 30k on leopard. I found hunt's for 15k, is one better than the other? The "big names" have no problem selling out years in advance, I for one can not afford that price. But after doing a lot of research and some haggling I was able to secure the hunt for just about half that price in Namibia with a very well know outfit. I am already looking into my next safari or 2017 and again I am learning a lot about my next quarry, either lion or buffalo. Having lunch yesterday with member of AH was en-lighting and educational. I m sure I ve made the right decision for 2017 and will book it next year.

 

[Hank2211]

And I will never book a hunt where there is a sliding trophy fee scale.

Agree completely. This is one of my (few) non-negotiables.

 

[billc]

Hunt hard I agree one ranch of 5000 acres will not give out the same as 250,000. But if the outfitter has 5 or s0 at 5000 plus a few at 10,000 and bigger he can offer good hunts and quality to. There is not many place in SA over 25,000 acres so some have found some good smaller areas and worked to get enough of them to get the job done.

I don't believe a guy selling hunts in smaller areas at the same cost would do as good then. He must price it lower and should be able to because his cost will be lower. It is up to the hunter to decide on when the cost to size of area is ok with them. If they cost the same must would hunt the bigger ranch. But when you can get say a 55" kudu on both places but the kudu is 1000.00 cheaper on the smaller ranch some are ok with that and should not be told that there is hunt is cheap or no good.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

As others have said.
The topic cheap hunts have been beaten to death and then some more on this forum already.

I am not looking for cheap.
I am looking for value for money.
And then I want to get the best deal possible.

I am not willing to pay the full price for a 5 star lodging when I am totally fine with a 1 or 2 star.
I am not willing to pay extra for a huge staff being there to cater for for all sorts of wants and needs as I am totally capable and willing to do most of it myself.
I go to Africa to hunt and I want to experience as much high quality hunting as possible for my money and to me is that not related to high scoring trophies and luxury lodges.

Personally I will never book a $450 day rate PG hunt.
And I will never book a hunt where there is a sliding trophy fee scale.

Agree completely. This is one of my (few) non-negotiables.

This is starting to rear it's ugly head here in North America; I see a lot of outfitters now have a sliding scale when it comes to deer/elk hunts out west. Buy your way into the record book? Why?

Growing up as a kid, the only reason we wanted a deer to have antlers was to make sure it was a legal target.....a big set of antlers was just gravy. Now it seems that the only reason to hunt is to kill something with a big set of antlers...........
Guess I'll start looking into cow elk hunts....same amount of meat, same amount of hunting, but cheaper!

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Hunt hard I agree one ranch of 5000 acres will not give out the same as 250,000. But if the outfitter has 5 or s0 at 5000 plus a few at 10,000 and bigger he can offer good hunts and quality to. There is not many place in SA over 25,000 acres so some have found some good smaller areas and worked to get enough of them to get the job done.

I don't believe a guy selling hunts in smaller areas at the same cost would do as good then. He must price it lower and should be able to because his cost will be lower. It is up to the hunter to decide on when the cost to size of area is ok with them. If they cost the same must would hunt the bigger ranch. But when you can get say a 55" kudu on both places but the kudu is 1000.00 cheaper on the smaller ranch some are ok with that and should not be told that there is hunt is cheap or no good.

I don't feel it's so much that "size" of the fenced in area, but what it holds, habitat-wise. I've hunted some smaller preserves here in the states where it was a bit of a challenge to find what we were looking for (one time it was bison, another it was sika deer). In areas that have a lot of swamp, bush, trees, etc, you can walk around all day and have great difficulty finding what you are hunting. Of course, bigger is better.....but I think I would be just as happy hunting several smaller areas as hunting one great big one, if the habitat was there.

...after all, you only need about 25 square yards and a P.O. cape buffalo to make it exciting! (I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek....please don't feel I think hunting in "pens" is acceptable).

 

[Waterguy631]

I booked my first hunt last week. What I looked for first was how engaging is the person I was talking to did they seem to want my business. I talked to some that could careless if I booked with them or not. Then the 3 that I thought would fit my needs I called references and checked reviews about them. I then came here and asked about the one I was leaning towards they aren't the cheapest but were along way form the most expensive. As far as package hunts I like the Idea for me as a first timer like my self I know what I'm going to spend before hand and the girlfriend is already figuring out where to hang each one if I get them. Also he made her feel like this will be a trip for her as well not like some of the others that made it feeel like she would be a third wheel.

 

[ChrisT]

Stef,

Some may say this is beating a dead horse but I'm glad you raised it. This is a topic I have also raised before, feel strongly about and I will therefore weigh in here as well with my opinion(s).

I won't try to tell others how to run their businesses and I don't want to either... However; we as Outfitters should be wary of underselling ourselves and the product we offer. Hunting Africa is not and should not be "cheap" because what we have here is special - very special - and all things special come at a price.

Some folks seem to think that those of us who are charging $400 - $500pd are greedy and we charge that because we "can". But you and I know that it has nothing to do with what we "can" or "cannot" charge...

Previously (in another thread) I used an example of what it typically costs to host a client on a quality safari. Some got the point I was trying to make and others did not so let me try and use another example:

What does it cost for a single person to stay overnight in a semi decent hotel in the USA? $100? $150 per night?

And what is included in this rate? A bed - right?

Let's add breakfast at $15, lunch at $20 and a steak dinner with wine at another $30... Let's add a few beers or G&T's... Wat does this add up to?

So if we were to assume that you got a room at $100 we're at $165 per night... Agreed, you can find hotels for cheaper than $100 - but what exactly do you get for that price?

What does a bottle of water or a coke cost - there at your $100pn hotel with a view over the apartment buildings of office blocks surrounding you?

Assuming your hotel is not right next to the airport, what does it cost you to get to your hotel from the airport and back?

What would it cost you to get a cab into town to do some shopping or just look around on a daily basis? And would it cost you to hire your own private guide to show you around in a private car?

What would it cost you to have your laundry washed and ironed on a daily basis?

Now let's look at what the typical safari operator offers:

• A rate per day as opposed to a rate per night.
• Breakfast, lunch and dinner.
• Drinks (bottled water, soft drinks, beers, wine and in some instances liquor too).
• No view of other hotels, apartment buildings or skyscrapers from your chalet - more likely a view of kudu and giraffe coming in to drink at the waterhole...
• Daily laundry.
• Transfers to and from the airport.
• A private guide who drives you around and uses his knowledge and experience to find you trophy animals and gets you in a position to shoot at them.
• Trackers to assist you in this process and skinners to experiy skin your animals.
• And much, much more...

I don't care how good an experience those who've been on cheap hunts have had in the past and quite frankly I don't care how the Outfitters who are offering those cheap hunts are making their money. From a business perspective, I am concerned about the sustainability of only offering cheap hunts but to each his own...

Some Outfitters seem to think that by offering cheap hunts when they start out in the industry they will attract some business and allow them to build a client base but the reality is that "cheap" hunts attract "cheap" clients. And I don't mean this in any derogatory kind of way.

My long-winded point is that we as Outfitters should never, ever make our product cheap. Even at $500pd a plains game hunt with a quality Outfit in a good area in SA is not expensive - given what the average American (sorry to use US Residents as example) would have paid for similar service in the USA. So why should we offer this at half price - even if we can make a (perceived) marginal profit?

Some years ago I had an enquiry from a potential client who wanted to bring his son with him on a hunt to Africa...

I quoted the client as per my usual pricelist and he replied that his son was still young, the two of them didn't need any fancy meals or service and only wanted a good hunting experience... He told me that some Outfitters had offered for his son to come for free and others would only charge an observer rate.

I subsequently offered the client reduced rates for both him and his son and also reduced trophy fees - which were apparently not "reduced" enough as he ended up booking with another well respected Outfitter (I'll call him Outfitter 1) - obviously at a cheaper price..

The client went on to have a successful hunt with Outfitter 1 and published a glowing report about his hunt upon his return. Great was my surprise though when the same client contacted me the next year and again enquired about him and his son coming hunting with me. "Why would he want to ask me about a hunt if he had such a great time on his last hunt? Why not just book another hunt with Outfitter 1?"

Anyway; I again quoted the client (at a reduced rate) and my quote was again rejected in favour of another cheaper Outfit - or OutfitS I should say - as he booked with Outfitter 2 and 3...

The client went on the hunt and again returned with another glowing hunt report on his "cheap" hunt. That same client is now acting as agent for one of the cheaper Outfits...

Now my question is this:

"Where is this client's loyalty?" He has to date hunted with three different Outfits of which whom he has elected to represent the cheapest one - claiming this is (and should be) the Outfit of choice for the average tourist hunter... And maybe rightfully so... But what happens when that "cheap" Outfitter has made his mark or realizes he is too cheap and increases his prices? Will this "agent" continue to act as agent for the Outfitter or will he look for the next cheapest deal he can get and then start representing him?

Personally I don't know the answer... I'm just happy I didn't book the "cheap" hunt...

Best,

Chris

 

[Hank2211]

Stef,

Some may say this is beating a dead horse but I'm glad you raised it. This is a topic I have also raised before, feel strongly about and I will therefore weigh in here as well with my opinion(s).

I won't try to tell others how to run their businesses and I don't want to either... However; we as Outfitters should be wary of underselling ourselves and the product we offer. Hunting Africa is not and should not be "cheap" because what we have here is special - very special - and all things special come at a price.

Some folks seem to think that those of us who are charging $400 - $500pd are greedy and we charge that because we "can". But you and I know that it has nothing to do with what we "can" or "cannot" charge...

Previously (in another thread) I used an example of what it typically costs to host a client on a quality safari. Some got the point I was trying to make and others did not so let me try and use another example:

What does it cost for a single person to stay overnight in a semi decent hotel in the USA? $100? $150 per night?

And what is included in this rate? A bed - right?

Let's add breakfast at $15, lunch at $20 and a steak dinner with wine at another $30... Let's add a few beers or G&T's... Wat does this add up to?

So if we were to assume that you got a room at $100 we're at $165 per night... Agreed, you can find hotels for cheaper than $100 - but what exactly do you get for that price?

What does a bottle of water or a coke cost - there at your $100pn hotel with a view over the apartment buildings of office blocks surrounding you?

Assuming your hotel is not right next to the airport, what does it cost you to get to your hotel from the airport and back?

What would it cost you to get a cab into town to do some shopping or just look around on a daily basis? And would it cost you to hire your own private guide to show you around in a private car?

What would it cost you to have your laundry washed and ironed on a daily basis?

Now let's look at what the typical safari operator offers:

• A rate per day as opposed to a rate per night.
• Breakfast, lunch and dinner.
• Drinks (bottled water, soft drinks, beers, wine and in some instances liquor too).
• No view of other hotels, apartment buildings or skyscrapers from your chalet - more likely a view of kudu and giraffe coming in to drink at the waterhole...
• Daily laundry.
• Transfers to and from the airport.
• A private guide who drives you around and uses his knowledge and experience to find you trophy animals and gets you in a position to shoot at them.
• Trackers to assist you in this process and skinners to experiy skin your animals.
• And much, much more...

I don't care how good an experience those who've been on cheap hunts have had in the past and quite frankly I don't care how the Outfitters who are offering those cheap hunts are making their money. From an business perspective, I am concerned about the sustainability of only offering cheap hunts but to each his own...

Some Outfitters seem to think that by offering cheap hunts when they start out in the industry they will attract some business and allow them to build a client base but the reality is that "cheap" hunts attract "cheap" clients. And I don't mean this in any derogatory kind of way.

My long-winded point is that we as Outfitters should never, ever make our product cheap. Even at $500pd a plains game hunt with a quality Outfit in a good area in SA is not expensive - given what the average American (sorry to use US Residents as example) would have paid for similar service in the USA. So why should we offer this at half price - even if we can make a (perceived) marginal profit?

Some years ago I had an enquiry from a potential client who wanted to bring his son with him on a hunt to Africa...

I quoted the client as per my usual pricelist and he replied that his son was still young, the two of them didn't need any fancy meals or service and only wanted a good hunting experience... He told me that some Outfitters had offered for his son to come for free and others would only charge an observer rate.

I subsequently offered the client reduced rates for both him and his son and also reduced trophy fees - which were apparently not "reduced" enough as he ended up booking with another well respected Outfitter (I'll call him Outfitter 1) - obviously at a cheaper price..

The client went on to have a successful hunt with Outfitter 1 and published a glowing report about his hunt upon his return. Great was my surprise though when the same client contacted me the next year and again enquired about him and his son coming hunting with me. "Why would he want to ask me about a hunt if he had such a great time on his last hunt? Why not just book another hunt with Outfitter 1?"

Anyway; I again quoted the client (at a reduced rate) and my quote was again rejected in favour of another cheaper Outfit - or OutfitS I should say - as he booked with Outfitter 2 and 3...

The client went on the hunt and again returned with another glowing hunt report on his "cheap" hunt. That same client is now acting as agent for one of the cheaper Outfits...

Now my question is this:

"Where is this client's loyalty?" He has to date hunted with three different Outfits of which whom he has elected to represent the cheapest one - claiming this is (and should be) the Outfit of choice for the average tourist hunter... And maybe rightfully so... But what happens when that "cheap" Outfitter has made his mark or realizes he is too cheap and increases his prices? Will this "agent" continue to act as agent for the Outfitter or will he look for the next cheapest deal he can get and then start representing him?

Personally I don't know the answer... I'm just happy I didn't book the "cheap" hunt...

Bets,

Chris

Chris, I agree with what you say.

There are a number of ways to price a good or a service, two of the most common being (i) what does it cost me to provide it, and (ii) what will people pay for it. Personally, in my business, we focus on the latter. Why should I sell my product for less than people would otherwise pay because I am more efficient or have economies of scale or whatever? If it turns out that it cost me more to provide my service than people will pay for it, well, I need to find another way to make a living. But this shouldn't be a race to the bottom, which seems to be what some outfitters are engaged in.

Having said that, I will add one more thing. People get used to nothing as quickly as low prices. When you try to raise them - even if the low prices were an "introductory offer" - they become very resistant, and feel they're being taken advantage of. It's a bad way to run any business.

This is not to suggest that the market for hunts shouldn't be segmented - it clearly is, and it should be. Some offer a different product, and it makes sense to prices those different products accordingly. I'm talking about hunts within the same general segment, whatever that might be.

I think if you compared the price of a plains game hunt in South Africa with the price of an elk hunt in North America, you'd find that the plains game hunt represents incredible value.

I'm not an outfitter - just a guy who been on a bunch of safaris in Africa so far (no. 9 is next month) and I would just say this: If you respect the product you are offering, and price it accordingly, I believe others will respect it as well. Treat it as something disposable or not worthy of a fair price, and you will get that back.

 

[TokkieM]

Chris I see your point and understand your reasoning. Cheap is however also relative to the market and our market is SA. A good hotel or guest house costs substantially less than in the USA. So do meals,taxis,labour etc.
There are still a few Outfitters that offer cheap ( entry level) packages besides their normal ones. BMW got the recipe right when they started building cars in segments that everyone could enter and grow from one product to the next (sorry to use that example). The hunting industry is a business and I am sure we all want clients to grow into the next hunt which will not be as affordable.

I do however agree with you that Outfitters selling only cheap hunts may be under selling the whole experience.

I cannot compete on price alone with some of the packages being offered by other Outfitters or Agents, I just can't see how they make money and reinvest in game or their company's. I have guys around offering buff bull safaris in SA for under 10 000USD including flights from Europe, no way in hell I can get close to that.

 

[Mr. 16 gauge]

Chris;
I can't speak for the person you are refering to, but I don't plan on hunting with the outfitter I hunted with previously........not that I didn't have a good time or thought that the price was too high, etc, but because he doesn't offer some species that I am wishing to hunt. Another reason is that I would like to see what other outfitters have to offer, what they do as far as hunting, etc. (You don't want to eat vanilla ice cream every day, do you?). Having said that, I have no hesitation recommending my previous outfitter to anyone who asks; I don't feel that his prices are out of line at all, and while not the "cheapest", I feel you definitely get what you pay for, and then some.
The other issue is some animals vary greatly from one outfitter to the next......although I haven't seen the wide discrepancy that Brickburn has shown with the bushbuck. However, If I can save a couple of hundred dollars on a couple of animals, that's another animal or two that I might be able to hunt (all things being equal). Unfortunately, I can't head to Africa every year, or every other year (much as I would like to).......If I'm lucky, I'll get there every 3-5 years, and being at the other side of 50, that doesn't mean I'll necessarily be able to get there and do all that I wish (illness, job changes, etc), so I want to be able to hunt as much as I can, when I can.
I'll be the first to admit that I am an amateur at this, and that I have a lot to learn........but right now this is where I see things from my perspective.

I will agree with you, though........you guys definitely have something special there, and you shouldn't cheapen it just for the sake of profit.

I think if you compared the price of a plains game hunt in South Africa with the price of an elk hunt in North America, you'd find that the plains game hunt represents incredible value.

I'll give that a hearty "AMEN!!" ....or even the price of a 5 day mule deer hunt out west!

 

[dobber]

It becomes very easy to see if its a cheap hunt/discounted hunt or a gouged hunt, open the books, see what the profit/loss margins are, until this happens then this dead horse will ride again

So all things being equal (which they hardly ever are) its about profit and i don't begrudge anyone from making a living. The benefit from some of the outfitters here is their love for what they do and love of sharing what Africa has to offer, and that is the reason why i picked the outfitter i did

 

[billc]

Well now chris (ct safari)since you like to use me as your points on pricing. I will give you some facts on why I went were I did. Reason I did not use same outfitter is I wanted to see new areas. Ask for another quote from you because first one was old and wants were different and you hunted the area I was looking at. Yes at the time my son was 13 or so and I told you what others offered for my son. Never told you pricing or said if you did this I would book with you. I told you some were giving me a break for my son. I said about the lodging and meals because I did not want the fancy stuff just plain and simple with good hunting. Also told you about not wanting fancy because I heard from you how much things cost over and over. Funny part was when I told you that part then the cost of food and lodging was not that much and really would not change the cost to me. But then I was only hearing you talking about how much stuff cost. I wanted you to know I was not asking for a cheaper rate but still thinking I was going to get the same lodging or food of the people paying more.

Why I booked with Pieter and loodt is because I hit it off with them both. Did not think they were better or worse then you just had that good feeling about hunting with them. If all goes well I will be one of the reason paw print grows and I am glad to help him. Will his prices go up maybe maybe not time will tell.

Will I hunt with another outfitter in africa again time will tell and I am not ruling that out even if I am helping paw print.

I have never booked a hunt and promised anyone they will be the only person I ever hunt with. So if not going to the same place over and over or spending my money were I want not loyalty to bad.

So you can add your cost up run your business as you want just done act like you care more then that some outfitters are taking business from you and making you play in a new game of pricing you dont like.

Now if you look at the quality of the animals myself and son took you will see I did not get less in that department.I had great ph's and great food and lodging also. Here is the best part saved a lot of money over your quote and had a great hunt.
As for your glad you did not book that cheap hunt. Well the more I see what you write I am as glad as you I did not do the hunt with you.

Now since you like to talk about cost so much why don't you become a sponsor of the site. Oh I know why you will just post the deals you cant do since your not a sponsor under a sponsor add a 1000 to the hunt and pass that on to us hunters.

 

[Mike70560]

To all the hunting clients out there a question.

Being a Hunting Outfitter for 23 year in I have noticed that there has been a shift in the industry to many different directions. Lately it has become move in the cheapest possible hunt direction.

My question.

Is the quality of the Safari less important than the price?

The price is down the list for me. Quality is far more important. My time is just as important.

I have no experience in South Africa so I will not comment about game ranch hunting and $83.00 bushbuck.

However in remote areas with dangerous game I struggle to understand how an operator makes money on a $1000.00 per day rate.

To begin with there are concession fees, start-up cost, infrastructure, buildings, tents, generators, upkeep, advertising including DSC and SCI shows, road maintenance and the list goes on.

Then you have the money put back in conservation through anti-poaching, being selective on animals, paying for fixed quota and not hunting everything because the fixed quota is too high for the area.

The you have to pay a PH and staff. The PH has to maintain his vehicle. The operator has to pay his fuel.

You have to get supplies, food, ice, fuel etc. to a remote camp.

And then he has to make a profit, because it is a business.

All that and much more for a $1000.00 per day. Hell, I do not do consulting work for less than $125.00 per hour. That is $1250.00 on a 10 hour day plus ALL expenses.

I will not book with an outfit that I do not believe is taking care of their area. It burns my ass to see somebody book a dangerous game hunt for a cheap rate in an area where the outfitter has no "ownership", they are basically raping the area and moving on.

Also, I will gladly pay $450.00 per day to hunt plains game in an area like Coutada Nine in Mozambique, actually I paid more than that and will do it again. Companies like Mokore improve their areas and I will support this type of operator.

Rant over, have a nice day.