Cartridges you just hate

[HWL]

I love the 10.75x68 because most hate it. Its been fun.

I love it so much, that one was not enough!

HWL

 

[Cheesehead]

Interesting. I don’t care for 300WinMag for essentially the same reason. Winchester abandoned the 300H&H for their own proprietary cartridge.

My issue with the 300 win mag is that I don't think it is a very good design. The case is relatively long with a short neck, as if it was designed for shooting lightweight bullets. It seems to be optimized for 150-165 grain bullets. With these lightweight bullets I don't think it does anything that the 30-06 already does at normal ranges. If a person wants to shoot that bullet weight at very long range, stepping down to the 7mm Rem mag or 264 win mag would yield better BC and SD.

It should be the same 2.5" case length as the other Winchester Magnums, with a longer neck and shoulder set further back, more suitable for shooting 200-220 grain bullets. That is where its case capacity would allow the 300 to separate from the 30-06 and 7mm mag.

On an unrelated note, there are some cartridges that are pretty great but have what I think are stupid names. A couple of these are the 25-06 and 338-06. They make sense. Everyone knows the "06" in 30-06 stands for 1906, when it was standardized. We'll neither the 25-06 or 338-06 were invented in 1906 or 2006. This is just a feeble attempt to tie these obscure cartridges to their legendary parent. Give them a unique name and let them stand on their own merits, like the 270 winchester, 280 remington, or 35 whelen. The worst offender in this regard has to be the 7mm-08. Talk about nonsensical.

 

[ftrovato]

I haven't used their rifles. I don't believe in cramming every last bit of powder into a case and trying to throw a small bullet as fast as it possibly can go. It's the classic argument between bullet velocity vs sectional density. I am in the school that a bullet that is loaded heavy for caliber, with good BC, is far better than a bullet travelling 3,300 FPS.

Sensible. I've always been an Elmer Keith fan. But must admit that premium bullets these days have swayed me from time to time to the other side.

 

[Vashper]

So, Creedmoor 6.5, Bud Light, what else?

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Milan - you’re right that “Hate” is a strong word but I would NEVER OWN a 6.5 “anything”….NOT a Grendel, Creedmore/Needmore or anything else developed ONLY to convince people they NEED another caliber —-code for “sell more rifles”.
By 1940 the World had all the calibers needed and since a well cared for Rifle lasts a few 100 years — manufacturers needed to figure out how to sell more rifles. Now, how’s that for a Grumpy old man’s take on things ?

Not even a 6.5 Remington Magnum? If it was manufactured today as a "new" 6.5, the long distance shooters would be all over it. Just as the recently "new" 6.5-.300 Weatherby which was actually a wildcat in the '60s and set some long distance shooting records at that time. Now, it's one of the latest and greatest "new" cartridges. It'll never end.

 

[CoElkHunter]

So, Creedmoor 6.5, Bud Light, what else?

Man bun.

 

[ftrovato]

Not even a 6.5 Remington Magnum? If it was manufactured today as a "new" 6.5, the long distance shooters would be all over it. Just as the recently "new" 6.5-.300 Weatherby which was actually a wildcat in the '60s and set some long distance shooting records at that time. Now, it's one of the latest and greatest "new" cartridges. It'll never end.

I'm a crotchety old bast*ard and said I wouldn't try anything new (too).

Most the calibers I own are over 100 years old (500 NE, 470NE, 416 Rigby, 30-30 win, 30-06, 45-70, 257 WM, ........ and a 340 WM from1962 being the baby of the bunch.

Then I said F* IT about 2 months ago and bought a 6.5 PRC. I bought enough brass to own it for the rest of my life if the cartridge doesn't have longevity. I figure I have 20 years if I'm luck to hunt with it.

First it shoots everything I'm reloading for it (so for) fantastic.

With that I'm going to take it to Scotland for Stag this fall and leave the classic cartridges all home!

Growing can be hard and fun!

;-)

 

[akrifleman]

Not even a 6.5 Remington Magnum? If it was manufactured today as a "new" 6.5, the long distance shooters would be all over it. Just as the recently "new" 6.5-.300 Weatherby which was actually a wildcat in the '60s and set some long distance shooting records at that time. Now, it's one of the latest and greatest "new" cartridges. It'll never end.

I understand the sentiment, but nobody in mid-range, LR, ELR, or PRS would adopt a new belted mag. But what is old is new again, is as old as time.

 

[CoElkHunter]

I'm a crotchety old bast*ard and said I wouldn't try anything new (too).

Most the calibers I own are over 100 years old (500 NE, 470NE, 416 Rigby, 30-30 win, 30-06, 45-70, 257 WM, ........ and a 340 WM from1962 being the baby of the bunch.

Then I said F* IT about 2 months ago and bought a 6.5 PRC. I bought enough brass to own it for the rest of my life if the cartridge doesn't have longevity. I figure I have 20 years if I'm luck to hunt with it.

First it shoots everything I'm reloading for it (so for) fantastic.

With that I'm going to take it to Scotland for Stag this fall and leave the classic cartridges all home!

Growing can be hard and fun!

;-)

I've read good things about the PRC cartridges. I think the brass is the key when buying a "newer" cartridge. Buying enough when the cartridge is still popular and like you said, if the cartridge becomes less favorable over time you can still reload for it. Good luck on your stag hunt!

 

[Milan]

So, Creedmoor 6.5, Bud Light, what else?

Oh no. Don’t get me started on “beers” I hate….

 

[CoElkHunter]

I understand the sentiment, but nobody in mid-range, LR, ELR, or PRS would adopt a new belted mag. But what is old is new again, is as old as time.

Oh I know, I was just being my usual facetious self. I was kind of shocked though seeing the 6.5-.300 Weatherby in my early '70s Sierra reloading manual and reading the narrative about it being a '60s wildcat and used successfully in competition at that time. I saw this after Weatherby had introduced it as a "new" cartridge. I guess it was a new factory cartridge from an old wildcat. It's all interesting to me.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I haven't used their rifles. I don't believe in cramming every last bit of powder into a case and trying to throw a small bullet as fast as it possibly can go. It's the classic argument between bullet velocity vs sectional density. I am in the school that a bullet that is loaded heavy for caliber, with good BC, is far better than a bullet travelling 3,300 FPS.

@gcbailey
But a heavy for calibre bullet travelling at 3,300fps can be good.
eg a 117gn 25 cal at 3,300 is devastating on game.
Bob

 

[Philip Glass]

Well, hate may be a strong word. But it makes for a good click-bait.

In any case, lately I have been running into people who, when asked, what rifle caliber they would like to buy now, reply .308 Winchester. Now, do not get me wrong, I not only like the .308 fundamentally as a cartridge and always wanted a rifle chambered in one, but I even own a few. However, having had and still owning several, every time I get one, I wonder why I bothered. I need one for Palma style/FTR matches. But for hunting, if I shoot .30 cal, I shoot .30-06. If I wanted more power and recoil, I'd shoot .300WM or .300WSM or .300 PRC. I do not want/need that. So ought-six it is. Pretty much same availability as .308, pretty much the same price, pretty much the same choice of bullets. Actually better I'd say. So why would anyone need or want the .308? Ugly ass, short cartridge.

I also do not like .243 Win. And when I remember it is based on .308, I dislike it even more. What do you need 6mm for anyway? If I was hunting smaller animals in Europe, I'd use 6.5 of some kind. Probably 6.5x57. Or 6.5x55. Or maybe even that 6.5 Creedmoor.

I hate .25-06, yet my buddy kills deer and elk with it at distance on regular basis.

I hate .270 Win. Just Weird caliber to me. Too much recoil and blast for what it is. Plus everyone loves it "sooo much".

I used to hate 6.5 Creedmoor without ever even firing or seeing one. Probably because everyone liked it "sooo much", like the .270. So, I decided to get one to be able to substantiate my "hate". Well, it turns out, it's falling into the same bucket as the .308. Nice, yet nothing special. Wanted to hunt with it this season but did not get out enough, so was not successful in filling my tags. So, jury is still out. But it only sends 140gr bullet at 2625 out of my 20" barrel. Switching to 130gr Terminal Ascent, I can send it at 2718fps, so good enough to 400m or so. But even if it kills deer well, I hate Short Actions and will go back to 7mm for hunting...wait, maybe that is why I do not like the .308 or .243. Maybe it's that one is really limited by the COAL of these. But at least I like the 6.5CM more than the .308 and will probably use it to replace 6.5x55 to punch paper and shoot occasional coyote.

I dunno. I also hate .416 Rigby. I like how it looks, I hate the recoil, muzzle blast and concussion.

I also do not like Weatherby cartridges, belted cartridges (except .375H&H, .458 Lott), magnum cartridges, big kickers - like the .416 (except .458 Lott and have yet to try .404 Jeffery), rimmed cartridges, any weird ones. I almost wonder why I like anything at all. Maybe I'm getting old and crusty.

I used to like .458 Lott but it's no longer with me. Same with .338WM and .300 WM. Who needs all that recoil and blast anyway? That .338 sure killed good though.

I do like .22 LR, 7x57, 7x64, 280 AI, 8x57, 9.3x62, 9.3x64, .375H&H (though once I shoot up all the ammo it's gone).

I also like 8mm-06, 338-06and 35 Whelen never even firing one of these - so you could say I like things based on 30-06, rather than .308. But I kind of like the 6.5CM, yet do hate that .25-06 and .25 or .277 anything.

I also like .505 Gibbs, .50 BMG not having fired either of these. So how do I know if I like them? Would probably hate the recoil and concussive blast.

I might like 7mm-08 even though it's based on .308, but then I'd probably go for 7mm SAW or 7 SAUM if I wanted a SA 7mm.

Now...Do NOT take this post as criticism of YOUR favorite cartridge (should it happen to be one of the ones I do not favor) but rather as a statement that I recognize I may have completely irrational dislike for some cartridges and still end up owning them, shooting them, but for some unknown reason still hating them. Then one tries to figure it out and comes up with some reasons or rationalizations behind the dislike. Yet it all seems false in some way. In the end I like that we have so many different cartridges to choose from.

However, the main reason for this post:
Do you also hate or dislike some specific cartridge or class of cartridges? For real reasons or just so? Are we nuts? Am I?

.300 RUM. I had two and both had accuracy issues not to mention the recoil!
I love what I shoot now. 5.56, .300Win, .375 Ruger, and .450/400. All with TSX.

 

[Vashper]

Here's an interesting cartridge to hate. The bullet is in the caliber of a 7.92 Mauser. It is a pity that it was not used as a hunting weapon.

 

[uplander01]

Maybe question should have been rifle or cartridges you hate.

I have no hate for any cartridges, but I have a very distinct hatred of GunWerks rifles. There is nothing that make them worth what they are charging, it's purely an image/or should I say mirage/smoke/mirrors etc. Similar dislike of Blasers, they are just not worth the money......there I said it,....now everyone can hate me

 

[bakerb]

I’ve long thought a 30-30 double rifle would be VERY cool. And a good way to practice with a double without breaking the bank.

 

[ftrovato]

@gcbailey
But a heavy for calibre bullet travelling at 3,300fps can be good.
eg a 117gn 25 cal at 3,300 is devastating on game.
Bob

For me nothing like a .338 bullet moving along at 3100 fps. I can easily manage the POI out to 400 yards and anchor anything in North America (short of big bears).

To your point on 25 cal. It has never failed my as I have used it many times on animals up to 400 lbs out to 400 years. Great caliber.

 

[WyoBull]

.300 RUM. I had two and both had accuracy issues not to mention the recoil!
I love what I shoot now. 5.56, .300Win, .375 Ruger, and .450/400. All with TSX.

Philip, the 300 RUM is definitely a shoulder pounder. Have you ever shot the 7mm RUM? That is my "go to" big game rifle for anything outside of DG. I have enough brass, components and even factory ammo I bought for the brass primarily to last me a lifetime.
It is a hammer and for up here in Wyoming where I live, not only does it buck the wind very well but it can also reach way out there if needed.

 

[Brian]

Sensible. I've always been an Elmer Keith fan. But must admit that premium bullets these days have swayed me from time to time to the other side.

The good old Famous Keith hard cast bullet;

My favourite bullet for all game in Africa are the CEB # 13 solid and the Raptor. Thees bullets were tested more extensively on African and Australian buffalo, during their R&D phase, than any bullet that I have heard of. ( Peregrine may have to correct me on that .)
I have used the CEB bullet with experienced DG Ph's and they were surprised/impressed with how well they kill buffalo.

After all my build up above, have a look at the Keith Bullet and see the similarities it has the CEB Solid. Wide flat Meplat with " square edges" that is about 65-70% of bullet diameter and a straight Ogive of about 13 deg. ..... similar to the CEB # 13 solid. Was Ecclesiastic right? "There is nothing new under the sun." I am a Keith fan too!

 

[rookhawk]

I see some misplaced hatred on this thread.

The 30-30WCF is a wonderful cartridge, it is the typical guns that use it that ruin it. Lever guns require those 150-180gr round nose bullets to prevent tube-magazine problems. Years ago I had a modern falling block single shot in 30-30 and it was a 1/2 MOA tack driver with modern HPBT ammo. The derivative of it 7-30 waters is even better.

The 257 Roberts was limited to those old, terrible loads. The mauser action custom versions of it loaded to +P energies are magnificent. A gun with 8-10 lbs of recoil that kills deer and antelope with authority. The older Griffin & Howe rifles in this caliber are rare, coveted, and the consummate "gentleman's rifle". I've searched for one for two decades but never found the best-grade 257 Roberts I have my heart set on owning.

I have a particular disdain for Weatherby calibers, but I have seen one or two magnificent Griffin & Howes that were built in 257 Weatherby for Tiger Hunting. That caliber is one of the few that does not have obnoxious recoil. I'd probably break my Weatherby prohibition if I ever found one of those rifles.

Sometimes we hate a cartridge, sometimes we hate the rifle the cartridge goes in, sometimes its both. For the middle scenario, there are exceptions to the rule.