Best .45 ACP round for black bear protection

[F. Vaccaro]

Wow! Thread started in 2021- Dec of 24 & the 10mm crowd didn't ruin it! Some good posts here, I live & hunt in grizzly country & am ALWAYS armed when in the hills.
Thanks fellas.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Wouldn’t a 10mm be a better choice in a semi automatic handgun for self defense against black bears ?

 

[colorado]

Or a 45 Super

 

[CoElkHunter]

Or a 45 Super

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Nice!

 

[Jack Stevens]

Wouldn’t a 10mm be a better choice in a semi automatic handgun for self defense against black bears ?

Pretty much …. bears. Period. Grizz, brown, black or Polar.

Brownie …. 10mm Glock 20.

Blackie …. 10mm Sig P220.

Unless you throw Water Buff into the mix, but then the 10mm puts those down too.

Razor Dobbs and his 10mm Razorback 1911 say so.

Buff ….

 

[CoElkHunter]

Would anyone happen to know the difference between a .45 Super and the .460 Rowland? I was just reading where the Rowland can send a 230gr. bullet @1340fps. vs. the .45ACP at 950fps. That's a HUGE difference!

 

[CoElkHunter]

Pretty much …. bears. Period. Grizz, brown, black or Polar.

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Brownie ….

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Blackie ….

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Unless you throw Water Buff into the mix, but then the 10mm puts those down too.

Razor Dobbs and his 10mm Razorback say so.

Buff ….

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Yeah, how does Razor Dobbs get to hunt buffalo in Africa with a 10mm and yet one can't bring a semi auto rifle to Africa to hunt with? I guess you have to be somebody special?

 

[Jack Stevens]

Yeah, how does Razor Dobbs get to hunt buffalo in Africa with a 10mm and yet one can't bring a semi auto rifle to Africa to hunt with? I guess you have to be somebody special?

Depends on the country … I guess.

Some years (decades?) ago, G&A magazine writer Mass Ayoob penned one or two articles detailing a Republic of So. Africa safari where he brought a couple of bolt rifles and a 4” S&W 629 .44 Mag. He popped some animals ‘Dirty Harry’-style with the big .44 wheely. Baboons and hyenas during culls, if I recall correctly.

It surprised me to learn that African countries even allowed foreign hunters to bring handguns there to hunt with, or even just for personal protection.

Then I read later where the owner of MagnaPort brought either a .44 Mag Desert Eagle or a .44 AUTO Mag pistol to Africa to hunt with. Can’t recall which.

So handgun hunting over there is, or was, apparently legal at some point. Semi-autos or big-bore revolvers.

 

[F. Vaccaro]

Guess I spoke to soon, I apologize for mentioning the 10.
The topic was what's the best .45 ACP round for defense against a black bear.
NOT which is a better cartridge. Wish folks wouldn't derail a topic with their favorite ctg.

 

[Jack Stevens]

Guess I spoke to soon, I apologize for mentioning the 10.
The topic was what's the best .45 ACP round for defense against a black bear.
NOT which is a better cartridge. Wish folks wouldn't derail a topic with their favorite ctg.

You post with a myopic, 10mm-bias lens. Does your statement above apply to folks posting about the bear-killing merits of the .45 Super or the .460 Rowland?

Because those cartridges aren't the .45acp either.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

Or a 45 Super

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I had a chance to buy the twin to that pistol several years ago. I didn’t bid because I noticed a buddy bidding on it. I hope he still has it!

 

[HankBuck]

Pretty much …. bears. Period. Grizz, brown, black or Polar.

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Brownie …. 10mm Glock 20.

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Blackie …. 10mm Sig P220.

View attachment 662715

Unless you throw Water Buff into the mix, but then the 10mm puts those down too.

Razor Dobbs and his 10mm Razorback 1911 say so.

Buff ….

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@Jack Stevens - i get your point and no doubt the 10mm has great firepower for a semi auto… I have to question a couple of these photos: The Brown Bear taken “July 5th 2024” and there’s Not one “green leaf vegetation” anywhere in the photo? Also the Elk & “tiny Black Bear” that would more impressive if taken w/a .22LR (kidding).
I would expect a 10mm to be good bear defense, but no better then a .44 mag or other similar calibers including the .45 ACP with full power loads & hardcast bullets. Although the .45 ACP has less impressive ballistics - bullet placement and being able to hit your target “under extreme stress” matters most….whatever a Hunter chooses to carry should be based on confidence & proficiency with that handgun….if I could draw & fire my .44mag or .45 ACP “in my sleep” and hit a 12” circle at 25 feet…that would be my choice (or whatever gun I could do that with).

 

[ChrisG]

Would anyone happen to know the difference between a .45 Super and the .460 Rowland? I was just reading where the Rowland can send a 230gr. bullet @1340fps. vs. the .45ACP at 950fps. That's a HUGE difference!

45acp+p: 230 gr. LFN - 950fps -461 ft-lbs
45 super 230 gr. LFN - 1150 fps - 675ft-lbs
460 Row. 230 gr. LFN - 1330fps - 900ft-lbs

460 rowland is a whole conversion.
45 super can be fired in most lightly modified, fully supported 45ACP guns.

 

[CoElkHunter]

45acp+p: 230 gr. LFN - 950fps -461 ft-lbs
45 super 230 gr. LFN - 1150 fps - 675ft-lbs
460 Row. 230 gr. LFN - 1330fps - 900ft-lbs

460 rowland is a whole conversion.
45 super can be fired in most lightly modified, fully supported 45ACP guns.

Thanks! Still looks like the Rowland wins though in .45. 900ft-lbs is HUGE! Buy a 6" barreled Glock Model 40 10mm like I have and never look back! LOL

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks! Still looks like the Rowland wins though in .45. 900ft-lbs is HUGE! Buy a 6" barreled Glock Model 40 10mm like I have and never look back! LOL

The reality is, I see a lot of .44 mag proponents touting 1,300 ft-lbs from a .44 mag. I have never seen a reasonably carryable .44 magnum that could do that. I owned a redhawk 4" and a s&w 29 5.5". The redhawk handloads with a near max charge of H110 topped out at 1040 fps with a 310 WFN bullet. Thats just under 800 ft-lbs. Not bad, but a long way from the often touted ballistics that apparently everyone but me are able to "easily" obtain from a .44.

Granted, it'll likely punch stem to stern through a bear, but it was like catching a swung canoe paddle in the web of your hand. Fast follow up shots were like trying to wrangle an Angry Steer off his sweet feed.

Thats why I switched to 45 super. Literally almost no difference in the effect on game for a lot less recoil, flash, boom and faster and more numerous follow-ups.

Energy from a handgun is an oft-touted but largely irrelevant metric. The way I see handgun power is there are simply a few power brackets and guns in those brackets perform almost identically

1. Mouse guns - 22LR, 25 Acp, 32 acp, etc

2. Sub-service guns - 380 ACP, 38 Short, 32 H&R

3. Service guns - 9mm, 40, 45, 38, 357 mag

4. Magnum autos and revolvers - 10mm, 45 super, 460 rowland, 41 mag, 44 mag,

5. Heavy Magnum revolvers 454 Casull and up.

 

[CoElkHunter]

The reality is, I see a lot of .44 mag proponents touting 1,300 ft-lbs from a .44 mag. I have never seen a reasonably carryable .44 magnum that could do that. I owned a redhawk 4" and a s&w 29 5.5". The redhawk handloads with a near max charge of H110 topped out at 1040 fps with a 310 WFN bullet. Thats just under 800 ft-lbs. Not bad, but a long way from the often touted ballistics that apparently everyone but me are able to "easily" obtain from a .44.

Granted, it'll likely punch stem to stern through a bear, but it was like catching a swung canoe paddle in the web of your hand. Fast follow up shots were like trying to wrangle an Angry Steer off his sweet feed.

Thats why I switched to 45 super. Literally almost no difference in the effect on game for a lot less recoil, flash, boom and faster and more numerous follow-ups.

Energy from a handgun is an oft-touted but largely irrelevant metric. The way I see handgun power is there are simply a few power brackets and guns in those brackets perform almost identically

1. Mouse guns - 22LR, 25 Acp, 32 acp, etc

2. Sub-service guns - 380 ACP, 38 Short, 32 H&R

3. Service guns - 9mm, 40, 45, 38, 357 mag

4. Magnum autos and revolvers - 10mm, 45 super, 460 rowland, 41 mag, 44 mag,

5. Heavy Magnum revolvers 454 Casull and up.

I agree. Sometimes I think a cartridge with decent power but with less recoil may be the way to go in certain situations but the following is pushing the limits IMO. I watched a video somewhere where a well known Alaskan brown bear guide was guiding a couple on a fishing trip in the summer. I believe he was carrying an old S&W M39 9mm with one magazine that was recently given to him. And of course, what could go wrong on a summer fishing trip? That’s why he was carrying the 9mm versus the .357 revolver he usually carried. I wouldn’t carry either in brown bear country but he’s the expert. Anyway, the couple was charged by a bear and they laid down in tall grass and when the bear stopped over them, this guide shot the bear behind the shoulder several times and when the bear turned, he shot it several more times behind the other shoulder. The bear ran off and he found it dead awhile later. Sometimes it’s better to be lucky than good. LOL

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The big advantage I see to revolvers is the ability to load whatever shape of bullets you want. With lead bullets the shape is an incredibly important part of performance.
Many revolver bullets are better performers in my opinion. I am a fan of Keith semi wad cutters. (Not generic commercial cast SWC).
That said the 45 super looks to be an excellent choice, provided a proper bullet can be loaded.