Best .45 ACP round for black bear protection

Well…45 ACP is a good round and I have 5-6 versions of them in different configurations. Great against humans but not against thick fur heavily muscled carnivores(But much better than spray). I won’t go into a lesser cartridge like the 9mm as it is quite ineffective against Black bears(I know this first hand after dumping a 15 round clip of +P 115 grain bullets into one).
When hunting in Alaska I used to carry my handy 44 mag with 300 grain (6 Rounds) hard cast bullets and felt if I had an encounter it would have worked, alas I moved to a 15 (190 grain cutting edge) round Glock G20 a few years back and have never looked back.

HH
 
Yeah, I hear you. But a G20 for half the price, more than double the ammo capacity and 16 oz lighter than the S&W is hard to resist.

Plus most people don't practice enough with speed reloads and doing so with moon clips can be difficult.

FWIW, my bear country sidearm is a G40 carried in a 2A holster chest rig… and my general purpose back country sidearm is a G19…

I pretty much carry a Glock of some sort or another every time I am in the woods (and most of the time when I’m not)… :)
 
Yes. I LOVE my G40 MOS 6"bbl. 10mm and G29 10mm. I put Trijicon night sights on both. Only need a G20 now. The 10mm is hard to beat with 220gr. hardcasts for four legged critters that might bite and 180gr. Sig V- Crowns for two legged fools that aspire to be somebody. LOL
IMG_20150827_114559_981.jpeg
 
Thank you all for your input, I have learned how wonderful the 10mm is. Since we have gotten off the original question anyway,
I'll throw in something else, if you are in a deadly confrontation where the bear makes contact, you can jam a revolver into your opponent and it will still fire. Most auto will go out of battery jammed into your opponent and not fire … Worst case scenario.
Why would you wait until an attacking bear makes physical “contact” with you to fire your weapon?

Doesn’t matter whether it’s a 10mm semi-auto or a big-bore wheelgun, in either case you’ll be this guy … the bruin’s lunch.

IMG_0485.jpeg


Don’t be ‘that guy.’ :oops: :eek:
 
Why would you wait until an attacking bear makes physical “contact” with you to fire your weapon?

Doesn’t matter whether it’s a 10mm semi-auto or a big-bore wheelgun, in either case you’ll be this guy … the bruin’s lunch.

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Don’t be ‘that guy.’ :oops: :eek:
Didn’t say I’d wait, I said worst case scenario.
the attack could be so sudden & from such close quarters you didn’t have a warning.
 
Didn’t say I’d wait, I said worst case scenario.
the attack could be so sudden & from such close quarters you didn’t have a warning.
Well, if the bear is on you before you see it coming, it doesn't matter whether you're carrying a semi or a revolver. You won't get it deployed in time ... and then you're lunch.

That's actually happened in some documented "Bear Attack" cases - a split-second attack so fast the bear mauled or killed the armed defender before he could get his handgun out of the holster and into play.

So obviously maintaining a heightened level of situational awareness while out and about in known "bear country" is as important as one's choice of sidearm.
 
Ok, regarding your first point. Fair enough. Such comparisons usually aren't apples to apples. Yes, a lot more humans spend a lot more time around other people than bears. And there are a lot more man hours outdoors in general (and sometimes in thunder storms) than people in bear country. Fine, I did not make great argument there.

Regarding your second point, I didn't mention any ratios or assumptions. I just described the general differences in black vs. brown bear fatal attack behaviour as described in Herrero's book, widely considered a solid source on the topic. Herrero isn't a PETA activist. He was a wildlife biology prof at the University of Calgary who researched bear attacks for decades, personally investigated some fatal attacks, etc. He talks about bear defense in his book and is not anti-gun. He has stats in his book as of around 2000 but I don't have the book with me because I loaned it to someone. Anyway, the discussion on here got me curious. Unfortunately the Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America) isn't as well organized as it used to be, and the stats are broken out decade by decade. But because I find this interesting, I spent a bit of time to tally up the decades. Below is a listing of fatal attacks over the past hundred years. I may be off by one or two here or there because I manually counted from tables by decade. The individual instances are sourced in the Wikipedia article. It looks like they are mostly news articles. I am extremely skeptical of journalists in general (and have been my entire adult life since the early 90s), but things like this are reasonably verifiable. The general numbers are consistent with what I remember from Herrero and whenever I've looked this up over the years.

Black Bear fatal attacks in NABrown Bear fatal attacks in NA
2020s
6​
11​
2010s
11​
18​
2000s
16​
10​
1990s
10​
15​
1980s
7​
10​
1970s
7​
9​
1960s
6​
3​
1950s
5​
4​
1940s
3​
4​
1930s
7​
3​
1920s
1​
3​
1910s
0​
1​
Total
79​
91​

So, slightly more brown bear fatalities than black bear. Since you mentioned that grizzlies are over a much smaller range, this suggests that they are generally more dangerous: fewer human interactions, but similar number of fatal attacks. While I find this interesting, I am not going to look up the precise location of each attack and examine the differences in areas where black and brown bears are both found, whether in Alaska or other jurisdictions. But given the relatively low total numbers, fewer than 100 fatal attacks by either kind of bear in North America over the past hundred years, when you start to slice and dice at that fine a level the numbers will get smaller and less meaningful statistically. Whatever the ratios are in various regions, it doesn't change the behavioural observations of how black vs. brown bears typically kill people.

Regarding your third point, ok, I get that the story sounds far fetched. I always found it amazing. I don't remember the exact details, but the pot happened to be on the stove when she fled the bear and ran into the cabin. Her parents were somewhere close by but not in the cabin. It's in Herrero. I can't personally vouch for the story but I'm pretty sure it was well documented. Regardless of whether that particular story is true, there is apparently a trend among almost-fatal black bear attacks where a determined human managed to discourage the bear. For sure, the bears probably could have killed the people in most of those cases, but it seems that putting up enough of a fight can sometimes make a black bear give up. That was my only point in mentioning that. Just something to add to the discussion here.

For sure, a good .45 ACP bullet would be much better than a fillet knife, a hatchet or a pot of boiling water against a black bear. And presumably also effective against meth heads or gangsters defending a marijuana field one happened to stumble across.
@Laniarius - Great post and interesting research, appreciate you taking the time to list those bear/grizz attacks by decade. It would seem clear (I think) that Grizz kill many more people then Black bears considering that Black Bear out number Grizz by more then 10 to 1. Also, the Grizz population has declined significantly in the past 100 years in Continental US where as Black Bear have increased. I think (no statistics to back this up) that the increase in Black Bear attacks is directly related to the fact that 1). There are many more Black Bears now then 100 years ago AND many more people living in close proximity to them. 2). People have gotten “Stupid” and Black Bear adapt well to suburban areas - garbage cans, human odor is common and they lose “fear”.
But you present a good case and valid points.
 
Was scrolling and saw this. Made me think of this thread.
 
"as much as I worry about being killed by a perfectly placed badminton shuttlecock." Now that's funny. I wish I had written it. True too!
You experts are fun to listen to. When I have been within huffing distance of interested black bears I was glad to have more than a badminton racket in hand.
But I do appreciate you taking the time to elucidate We the Unwashed.
 
These posts are always so funny to me. Sometimes they involve a lot of people that don't live anywhere near bear country, have never hunted bear, but have read too many articles written for dramatic effect to sell articles. Having killed an skinned a fair share of black bears, I may not be an expert, but I have enough wherewithal to form an opinion (I know, I am willing to accept that I may be wrong).

1st. - 9mm will almost universally out-penetrate a 45 ACP. It is simply better at punching through stuff with its sharply pointed, high sectional density bullets and high velocity. Yet it is somehow anecdotally seen as smacking a bear with a pool noodle, with many people, having never examined a bear's fairly lightly built bone and muscle (when compared to an elk or a moose), touting that it will simply glance off the skull or stop after 8". Can it happen? sure, I guess given the right circumstances, a .375 H&H will glance off a bear's skull. But is it not capable of reaching vital organs? It wholeheartedly IS with the right load.

2nd - the OP was about .45ACP and Black bears. After the last bear I shot. I put a 200 grain HC-LFN from a .45 Super through its shoulder just to see how it would perform, from 15 feet above him from my perch on a ledge. Guess what?!? it blew through both shoulder blades, splintering the bone and buried itself so deep in the ground that I couldn't find it. Slowing it down by 200fps isn't going to dramatically change the way it performed, and a bear, thus shot, is going to have a hard time carrying on a charge. Especially because the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds are also equally capable and can be delivered very quickly from a skilled pistol shooter.

I think, All anecdotes aside, black bear can be readily defended against with a 45ACP +P loading in a decent had cast bullet. If it is what you have, I wouldn't feel all that undergunned with it. They are very timid and the second they seem to losing a fight, they are likely going to hi-tail it out of there. Hand cannons work, but everyone shoots an autoloader with milder recoil better and faster. I'd rather have the opportunity to hit what I was aiming at several times, than only get 2 shots because the recoil was atrocious. And even a .44 magnum +P still pales in comparison to even a light rifle in terms of effect on game.
 
These posts are always so funny to me. Sometimes they involve a lot of people that don't live anywhere near bear country, have never hunted bear, but have read too many articles written for dramatic effect to sell articles. Having killed an skinned a fair share of black bears, I may not be an expert, but I have enough wherewithal to form an opinion (I know, I am willing to accept that I may be wrong).

1st. - 9mm will almost universally out-penetrate a 45 ACP. It is simply better at punching through stuff with its sharply pointed, high sectional density bullets and high velocity. Yet it is somehow anecdotally seen as smacking a bear with a pool noodle, with many people, having never examined a bear's fairly lightly built bone and muscle (when compared to an elk or a moose), touting that it will simply glance off the skull or stop after 8". Can it happen? sure, I guess given the right circumstances, a .375 H&H will glance off a bear's skull. But is it not capable of reaching vital organs? It wholeheartedly IS with the right load.

2nd - the OP was about .45ACP and Black bears. After the last bear I shot. I put a 200 grain HC-LFN from a .45 Super through its shoulder just to see how it would perform, from 15 feet above him from my perch on a ledge. Guess what?!? it blew through both shoulder blades, splintering the bone and buried itself so deep in the ground that I couldn't find it. Slowing it down by 200fps isn't going to dramatically change the way it performed, and a bear, thus shot, is going to have a hard time carrying on a charge. Especially because the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th rounds are also equally capable and can be delivered very quickly from a skilled pistol shooter.

I think, All anecdotes aside, black bear can be readily defended against with a 45ACP +P loading in a decent had cast bullet. If it is what you have, I wouldn't feel all that undergunned with it. They are very timid and the second they seem to losing a fight, they are likely going to hi-tail it out of there. Hand cannons work, but everyone shoots an autoloader with milder recoil better and faster. I'd rather have the opportunity to hit what I was aiming at several times, than only get 2 shots because the recoil was atrocious. And even a .44 magnum +P still pales in comparison to even a light rifle in terms of effect on game.
I wasn't insinuating that the people on this forum are not experienced with bears. I was just looking through some info on the G17 I just bought and I came across a forum of ignoramuses belittling some guy because he asked if his G17 would stop a black bear attack... In the back of my mind, I was like "Yeah! of course it would if you can shoot halfway decent under pressure". This was NOT the consensus of the unnamed forum. He was told everything from "buy a real gun" to "take the sights off for when the bear shoves it up your...." That all left me with the realization that most of these guys are using 3rd or 4th hand knowledge, probably live in downtown DC and have never shot any animal at any time... Thats why I think these questions are kind of funny.
 
Well i was gonna say Buffalo Bore .45 super, but the rest already have. I've never seen one that didnt run away at sight or sound of me unless it was on bait that it was habituated to and saw it as "his" food source, even then i would bet that if i took a shot at it, whether i hit it or not, regardless of caliber, even a food possessive black bear would run. So unless you are sneaking up to a bear bait or have one wounded in the bush i really wouldn't worry about it. Now that being said i am armed the vast majority of the time, whether i think im going to need it or not, and advocate you due the same, because you just never know what may happen.
 
I wasn't insinuating that the people on this forum are not experienced with bears. I was just looking through some info on the G17 I just bought and I came across a forum of ignoramuses belittling some guy because he asked if his G17 would stop a black bear attack... In the back of my mind, I was like "Yeah! of course it would if you can shoot halfway decent under pressure". This was NOT the consensus of the unnamed forum. He was told everything from "buy a real gun" to "take the sights off for when the bear shoves it up your...." That all left me with the realization that most of these guys are using 3rd or 4th hand knowledge, probably live in downtown DC and have never shot any animal at any time... Thats why I think these questions are kind of funny.
2ChrisG: maybe this post should start with the HG calibers that will NOT be good against a Black Bear attack —- but I can’t think of any?? They have ALL worked and there are cases documenting most HG calibers - even .22 rimfire. But I agree with many - some calibers are better than others. On my list of “eliminations” would be as follows: .25 acp, .32 acp, and maybe .22 rimfire — even though there are 4 documented cases where .22 rimfire deterred a Bear attack…it’s a bit light for me but better then my Left Hook.
 
'Live amongst some of the biggest black bear in the country. 'In the yard regularly. Never an issue (other than the occasional cranky male wanting something from the grill or other food item in my pack-even while sitting in treestands.) You'll never have to draw that .45 on a bear, but if you do, any expanding bullet will do the trick. They are not hard to kill, and certainly not with a head shot at close range. 'More likely you'll be using it on the Chinese Army. I think NATO says FMJ for that? I tell people to think of black bear as big racoons. Sure, they very occasionally kill some defenseless person, but it's quite the rarity. They are NOT brown/grizzly/polar bears that want to eat you! Blackies are largely herbivores.

View attachment 407426View attachment 407427
Do your homework. Black bears kill more people every year than grizzlies. And mostly the victims are stalked and killed. Completely unprovoked. Which definitely separates them from grizzlies which almost always kill out of defense, surprise, or fighting over food (hunter's elk carcass).

My neighbor across the street lived through one of those incidents. He was working for the MNR with a young gal checking caribou hair snares. They were separated three hundred yards when she radioed to him she was being stalked by a black bear. He took off for her GPS tracker and heard screams. He hit the panic button satellite summons and continued. By the time he got to her the bear was in the process of eating her alive. Dan only had a 4" folding knife but he weighed in anyway. He slashed the bear good across the nose and it backed off a few yards. Bear kept trying to get around him at the girl. Dan said it was totally fixated on getting that girl. He kept it at bay for forty minutes until the helicopter arrived. They barely managed to save her. Next day the bear was shot. Dan received a medal like Carnegie (doubtless he would have received that one too if he'd been nominated). Then the fire dept hired him. He is an unlikely hero. Not a big guy at all, very soft spoken, almost shy. This happened before the pandemic. Dan says the gal is still in physio. I never asked why they didn't have bear spray. Might not be legal here?

Last year a black bear killed and was eating a woman up North who stepped out of cottage to walk down to the boat. Her husband found her shortly afterwards when she didn't return. Their little kid was there too. He managed to chase the bear off. Similarly, the bear let him walk right up. Fixated on its prey.

I have seen bear spray in action during my time with US National Parks. It works! I would be much more confident in that stuff than a .45 ... and I carried one of those for three years in the Army. A good enough man stopper but bears have a lower center of gravity and much different metabolism. Frankly, I would never shoot a perp with a knife or club, not to kill anyway. And would have much preferred to disable with spray had the stuff been available.
 
If a bear appears to be stalking you, get ready. Unless it's a stupid curious subadult, you are in for a fight. Subadults just don't know their place yet and not really ready to fight. Stand your ground and they will back down.

Back in the days when I packed horses before bear spray, my saddlebag defense was 357 Smith Highway Patrolman. It would easily outperform any 9mm or 45 ACP. No possibility of it jamming either. And if I couldn't put a bear away with six of those rounds I probably deserved to be eaten.
 
My son (in AK) said they attack and kill more people there, but it rarely happens here (milder climate, abundant food.) A boy was trying to get closer to get a pic years back and got mauled. An unattended, just breastfed baby was taken out of a stroller decades ago. (The mom was rushing her older kids 1 by 1 into a rental cabin.) Stupidity seems to kill here.? Be prepared if you live in bear country. My 80 y/o Mother was picking blackberries last summer and twice she shared the patch with a bear (no issues arose.)
 

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(cont'd)
Rockies museum,
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Good Morning,
I plan to visit MT next Sept.
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Start in Billings, Then visit little big horn battlefield,
MT grizzly encounter,
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Looking to buy a 375 H&H or .416 Rem Mag if anyone has anything they want to let go of
 
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