Avoid Theo Blignaut / Skin Afrika like the plague

[CAustin]

With all due respect to everyone I don't see my hunt as using a booking agent! As mentioned I'm not sure there are many booking agents sitting in a blind with the hunter. Yes there will be a Zim PH , as Phil said required by law, with us but I shoot when Pieter says so and not unless he does! That folks is the difference between a PH and a booking agent in my mind. Sure Pieter will pay for the services of the Zim PH just as he pays for us to lodge some where! He paid for the services of another PH on my elephant hunt in South Africa, need two you know, but he was right there beside me and had that double 500 NE pointed at the bull as I was ready to shoot!

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

No insult intended Charlie and I said, it is different, but it does bear similarity.

 

[CAustin]

No insult intended Charlie and I said, it is different, but it does bear similarity.

No insult taken Phil. What we have here is an exchange of ideas and opinions. It's ok if we see things differently.

Now like I said in my original post......if I were to do a North American hunt like bear I would probably use one. Don't think there is a great site like this one to help guys out on Brown or Grizzly Bear hunts. Given that I've not done one of those I would need the help of someone who knows the ropes!

 

[Royal27]

Like most things in the hunting industry, the lines blur. In some cases a person who is primarily an outfitter can act as an agent and perform many of those same functions, thus becoming a middle man. In other cases someone who is primarily a booking agent can outfit hunts, and yes, even be there for the hunt.

 

[CAustin]

Royal I guess as you say it could go either way. Billc said just because you haven't seen it done a particular way doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Royal27]

I will keep booking my owns hunts my way and helping anyone who needs help be it with pawprint or any other trip at no charge.

I'm very impressed that you refuse to even take discounts on your personal hunts from Pieter. Quite admirable to truly help free of charge.

I'll be honest, I'd take the discount.

 

[CAustin]

Well Royal if he offers a discount to me I'm taking it in a heart beat! Ha!

 

[Royal27]

Well Royal if he offers a discount to me I'm taking it in a heart beat! Ha!

And I'd say you've earned every penny of it!!!!

 

[Red Leg]

One last personal example where an agent can help both parties. With my last trip to Mozambique and all the communications leading up to my next one next year, Grant Taylor http://www.mashambanzousafaris.com/ and I have become well acquainted. I suppose we could have gone around Jack Atcheson had we wished, but Jack's services assist us both. I have a place to periodically mail a check rather than deal with wire transfers. Grant has someone nailing down dates while he is very busy with shows in Europe and the US or conducting a season's worth of hunts. Finally, I'll deposit a significant hunk of change with Jack shortly before my departure for trophy fees. I'll have what I don't use back in a very few days of my return, and if I need to do so, Jack is a three-day snail mail delivery for that extra Oribi or even second buffalo. Everyone's interests are being managed by ...... what was that word ....... an agent. Pretty useful service, which has value to me and my PH. It is also why I caution people to use a reputable one.

In fairness, it is also a sort of skill set with which I have become comfortable employing. In the military, senior officers have executive officers who manage a lot of detail, freeing up decision time (and as a Colonel, I was one for a Four-Star - and I suspect a marginal one - man has to know his limitations). In industry, I had a senior executive assistant scheduling meetings, working travel, etc, etc allowing me to focus on running our little piece of the corporate business. My hunting consultant performs a similar role for both myself and the outfitter/PH in helping me "run" my favorite pastime - freeing me up, for instance, to worry whether my favorite 9.3 will actually shoot these new Woodleigh Hydro solids. For me, personally, a professional agent is a great enabler on what can be complicated hunts. Such a professional also can't be just any numbskull whose resume consists of having been hunting in Africa once or twice. The good ones are actually really good businessmen.

 

[billc]

I'm very impressed that you refuse to even take discounts on your personal hunts from Pieter. Quite admirable to truly help free of charge.

I'll be honest, I'd take the discount.

never said I dont get a break said he already gave me breaks before i helped try and book hunts with him. I dont ask for anything but he always takes care of me. But I did turn down the free cow buff he was offering me last time. Did not feel it was right to take it for bringing people with me. I shared the saving with my whole group.

How we work things is totally different then how must people work together. I can say ours is based on a friendship first business second.

I said I will not charge anyone I help and that is free be it pawprint or any place else. Believe it or not there is a few people who talk with me about hunting and going to africa. Even some about taxidermy to.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

How we work things is totally different then how must people work together. I can say ours is based on a friendship first business second.

Bill I won't presume anything about you and Pieter and how things work between you.

So please do me a favor, reciprocate and don't presume you know anything about how things work between Jacques and myself and refrain from making such assumptions in public posts.

You don't know mOst people and how they work, the same as I don't know the details between Pieter and yourself.

 

[billc]

Bill I won't presume anything about you and Pieter and how things work between you.

So please do me a favor, reciprocate and don't presume you know anything about how things work between Jacques and myself and refrain from making such assumptions in public posts.

You don't know mOst people and how they work, the same as I don't know the details between Pieter and yourself.

phil never made a comment saying anything about you or jacques or hartzviews dealings. Never guessed either if I knew what deals you do for your hunters. You guessed that a client of ours was paying for something that you have no idea about.I talk about the facts i know when I am talking. I am not guessing or saying anyone else is wrong in what they believe.

Mine is a statement about me and pieter no other names were used in my quote. I did not say I know how everyone else works either but again from what I know not many people deal with each other like we do. Again lines are being crossed but not by me.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

phil never made a comment saying anything about you or jacques or hartzviews dealings. Never guessed either if I knew what deals you do for your hunters. You guessed that a client of ours was paying for something that you have no idea about.I talk about the facts i know when I am talking. I am not guessing or saying anyone else is wrong in what they believe.

Mine is a statement about me and pieter no other names were used in my quote. I did not say I know how everyone else works either but again from what I know not many people deal with each other like we do. Again lines are being crossed but not by me.

How we work things is totally different then how must people work together. I can say ours is based on a friendship first business second.

In the 2nd quote I put in bold, I'm presuming you mean most when you said must. When you say such things using the phrase "how most people work together" you're making an implicit assumption that in fact you know these people and in fact how they work. You don't, the same as I don't know this or even about your and Pieter.

Such statements are very broad and are quite prone to be inaccurate. I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

 

[billc]

lets see 40 days in africa 4 outfitters owed money to each one after the hunt. Was told to even take more if I wanted with not having the money with me.Here is the tip of the day from me. (MAKE SURE YOU ASK THE OUTFITTER IF THIS IS OK WITH THEM BEFORE TAKING EXTRA YOU CANT PAY FOR AT THE END OF YOUR HUNT.) All trusted they would get payed when I got home. All 4 were paid by me after the hunt was over in the time we worked out.

Great if you need an agent for that but again can be done with out one if you work with the outfitter. Lets just say I dont agree with some who think the 10 to 15% YOU PAY the agent is worth it to ME.

IF the agent is useful to people who like to use one please do that.

Hell even us numbskulls who have worked for themselves since the age of 16 now 46 and only hunted africa for 40 days can help people I guess. I think I am a business man but i will wait for people to tell me if 30 years is enough time to qualify as one.

 

[billc]

In the 2nd quote I put in bold, I'm presuming you mean most when you said must. When you say such things using the phrase "how most people work together" you're making an implicit assumption that in fact you know these people and in fact how they work. You don't, the same as I don't know this or even about your and Pieter.

Such statements are very broad and are quite prone to be inaccurate. I hope you can see what I'm getting at.

Making the point based on the people I know is all. Trust me if I was talking about someone i would name them. I am talking about what I have seen in my life and how people let money ruin friendship. I am ok to talk about people I know and have witness this happen to right. Pretty sure we have all seen peoples friendship get ruined over money.
None of my comment are directed at you or jacques.

 

[Red Leg]

lets see 40 days in africa 4 outfitters owed money to each one after the hunt. Was told to even take more if I wanted with not having the money with me.Here is the tip of the day from me. (MAKE SURE YOU ASK THE OUTFITTER IF THIS IS OK WITH THEM BEFORE TAKING EXTRA YOU CANT PAY FOR AT THE END OF YOUR HUNT.) All trusted they would get payed when I got home. All 4 were paid by me after the hunt was over in the time we worked out.

Great if you need an agent for that but again can be done with out one if you work with the outfitter. Lets just say I dont agree with some who think the 10 to 15% YOU PAY the agent is worth it to ME.

IF the agent is useful to people who like to use one please do that.

Hell even us numbskulls who have worked for themselves since the age of 16 now 46 and only hunted africa for 40 days can help people I guess. I think I am a business man but i will wait for people to tell me if 30 years is enough time to qualify as one.

Sigh - Bill any comment about "numbskulls" was not directed at you. There are, unfortunately, plenty out there without having to include members of this forum. That said, I vet an agent as closely as I do any eventual PH - actually more closely - after all, his judgement and recommendations are what I am investing in to increase the likelihood of a successful hunt. I expect such a consultant to have exhaustive experience with the region I intend to hunt - certainlty more than do I. I expect him to be articulate, and professionally and promptly responsive to any inquiries I make - he is my representative as much as the outfitter. I even expect him to be successful at what he does - afterall - these are all measures of his ability, and it provides me confidence he can manage the investment I am making through him. I am also pretty sure that I can be a first class pain in the ass. All that creates a pretty small shot group. I have noted several times on this forum, my confidence in Jack Acheson and Sons - particularly, in my case, Jack Jr. He has earned my respect. I have simply offered my perceived value of that professional relationship to anyone who cares to read it.

 

[billc]

well I can be a numbskull at times. I must say I have only heard good things about Jack acheson and sons. Glad you are happy with he service they give you.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Making the point based on the people I know is all. Trust me if I was talking about someone i would name them. I am talking about what I have seen in my life and how people let money ruin friendship. I am ok to talk about people I know and have witness this happen to right. Pretty sure we have all seen peoples friendship get ruined over money.
None of my comment are directed at you or jacques.

Fair enough Bill, but you didn't say "most people I know" you simply said "most" and the difference between the two is big. We can only go off what you type not what you intended to type.

 

[billc]

Well phil most is not everyone is how I look at it. Again what I type does not always make my point clear to everyone and for that I am sorry.

 

[sestoppelman]

So after all this back and forth and all the bad grammar.. honestly, did the AH logo ever come down off the Blignaut site?