Avoid Theo Blignaut / Skin Afrika like the plague

[billc]

No I do not book hunts for paw print but I do help answer clients questions and I am there contact when pieter is out hunting. I do not look at it as the same thing. I am a representative for them and help pieter with many other things. I do not quote hunts but pass on the hunt quote pieter gives for each client.

I do not take deposit or hold money here in the states for hunts going on. Dont want that kind of job from anyone.

Sometimes it is easier for me to talk to him when hunting gets going and get all the answers for all the hunters. If they need to talk to him if I cant help then they are still able to do that also.

There could be reps that book hunts on there own but everything I do runs through pieter. Ask the people who I have helped if they have confidence it what I tell them be in on a trip with paw print or some place else. No punches get pulled when I try and help someone on any part of the trip.

One of the biggest helps to pieter that I do is talk to each hunter I know about how the hunt went and what could be made better. I try to give the outlook on how american hunters look at going to africa to hunt and bridge that gap to help his business grow. What I do is far different then what must booking agents do.

I hope that makes it more clear on what I do.

Now I do know what agents are suppose to do but do they all do that I have no idea. I find must booking agents to be useless and my worse hunt were when I was about 21 or 22 and I use an agent.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Go on a hunt let's say in Zimbabwe where trophy fees must be paid before you leave the country. As mentioned a booking agent in that case can be used as a type of escrow agent and hold the funds until you release them. These are the same type of agents that have gone hunting with those they represent and provide an honest recommendation.

I don't think I'd call them useless.

 

[billc]

phil you dont need to call them useless. Anyone is free to use one if they like. What I have found is the money they make off of you it is not worth it to me. Some guys may find it to be a great service I do not.

You work with most outfitters and there is ways to pay the fees that is fair for everyone. Again I think this thread shows how much safer you are using an agent. Plus there is many more bad stories on here about booking agents.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I find must booking agents to be useless and my worse hunt were when I was about 21 or 22 and I use an agent.

phil you dont need to call them useless. Anyone is free to use one if they like. What I have found is the money they make off of you it is not worth it to me. Some guys may find it to be a great service I do not.

You work with must outfitters and there is ways to pay the fees that is fair for everyone. Again I think this thread shows how much safer you are using an agent. Plus there is many more bad stories on here about booking agents.

I didn't call them useless, you did. And splitting hairs here, but it's mOst not mUst.

You say it's not worth the money they make off you, but going out on a limb here Bill I'm going to assume you don't do what you do for Paw Print for free. Am I wrong? If you get paid aren't you just another cost of the business just like a booking agent?

 

[Royal27]

Go on a hunt let's say in Zimbabwe where trophy fees must be paid before you leave the country. As mentioned a booking agent in that case can be used as a type of escrow agent and hold the funds until you release them

When I went to Zim my money never left the States until I was actually back home. Great piece of mind. It still bugs me that most SA Outfitters don't have this type of arrangement.

 

[billc]

yup and thats why i said you dont need to call them useless but I can I guess.
For the record no I do not get paid from paw print. I got my sons lioness at a price that was beyond good at the time. I felt I owed pieter something for what he did for me. That was before I was a rep he want out of his way for me. No hunter will pay a dime more talking to me or get a better quote talking direct with pieter.

See I dont just take and not give back to people who treat me right. My deal is based on friendship and not money. I would still hunt africa be it with pieter or someone else. Did he offer to take care of me well yes he did but not on the back of any hunters fees.

How about you?

 

[K-man]

I enjoyed having a local rep to talk to before my hunt with Hartzview. Mostly because of the time difference and international call fees. I don't believe my hunt cost anymore because of it. Nice to have you available Phil.

 

[billc]

K man I do think a local rep is very good to have for just those reason you said. I just dont see a rep as the same as a booking agent in my eyes. There maybe some that are the same but I am not.

Phil does a great job for hartzview no doubt they are a great outfit to hunt with.

 

[Wheels]

yup and thats why i said you dont need to call them useless but I can I guess.
For the record no I do not get paid from paw print. I got my sons lioness at a price that was beyond good at the time. I felt I owed pieter something for what he did for me. That was before I was a rep he want out of his way for me. No hunter will pay a dime more talking to me or get a better quote talking direct with pieter.

See I dont just take and not give back to people who treat me right. My deal is based on friendship and not money. I would still hunt africa be it with pieter or someone else. Did he offer to take care of me well yes he did but not on the back of any hunters fees.

How about you?

Understand the relationship better now. Thanks.

 

[billc]

Understand the relationship better now. Thanks.

Sorry I made it so hard to understand the first time. I can totally see were it would not be clear by a few thinks I said earlier on this thread. I try to be as honest as I can and upfront also. It does rub some the wrong way but that is not my goal at all.

 

[Hank2211]

I use a booking agent for all of my hunts. After some bad experiences with Cabela's, I have been using a Zimbabwean I know and have hunted with in the past and trust. I don't think I pay more for any of my hunts than someone who books directly with the outfitter - the outfitter pays the agent's fees, and I work of the same trophy price list as everyone else who hunts where I do.

I have never had a significant problem with any of my hunts (I think I am up to 10 (in Africa) now), and when I have had the usual small problems which tend to crop up, I've always been able to rely on my guy to help if I can't or don't want to fix it myself for whatever reason.

And after reading some of the threads on AH, I am glad that I have that extra assurance when I book in unfamiliar areas.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

yup and thats why i said you dont need to call them useless but I can I guess.
For the record no I do not get paid from paw print. I got my sons lioness at a price that was beyond good at the time. I felt I owed pieter something for what he did for me. That was before I was a rep he want out of his way for me. No hunter will pay a dime more talking to me or get a better quote talking direct with pieter.

See I dont just take and not give back to people who treat me right. My deal is based on friendship and not money. I would still hunt africa be it with pieter or someone else. Did he offer to take care of me well yes he did but not on the back of any hunters fees.

How about you?

So do you get compensated somehow or not? Hard to say from your post. At the beginning you seem to say you're doing it just for people who have treated you right, something that makes me say hmmm. But at the end of your post, you say he offered to take care of you. Am I to think that you've turned this down?

If not, then I can only presume that taking care of you means financially somehow. That in the end is a cost, a cost which must be borne somehow and one which I think Pieter is only going to pay if he's getting a return on that investment.

I certainly have no problem with that, but it's really in many ways no different than any other marketing cost. It will in the end need to have a return on that investment. The same can be said for booking agents.

As far as my story goes, have told it numerous times. Got shafted by a crook, but thankfully another outfitter stepped in and saved the day. Loved my time in Africa so much couldn't wait to get back. I also wanted to ensure that other newbies to Africa did not get caught up by some of the dishonest outfitters we find come here to AH from time to time. As such I started to think about getting into the business, not to replace my career as an engineer, but something to do on the side. Hopefully when I'm eligible to retire from my company in some 6 years and 5 months, but who's counting, I can maybe do this full time.

Along comes Jacques and a bit of a flip comment from me and suddenly we're having a conversation. Went to DSC to be in the booth in 2012. Not sure exactly how Jacques saw that time, but for me it was a time to get to know Jacques, to see if being on the other side of the booth table was something I thought I'd like to do. And specifically was Jacques someone I'd want to work with? I guess you can safely say now that the answer to those questions was yes. But until I had hunted there in 2013, I was not actively marketing for Jacques. That was important to me, to have the credibility to say to someone yes I think hunting with HV will be a great experience.

Now some 7 conventions later which I used my vacation time from my day job to attend and I couldn't tell you how many emails and phone calls I've written/received and taken/placed on behalf of both HV and client alike, yes I do get compensated but by Jacques. No client has ever paid me a dime. I have no qualms about it. And just as for you and PP, that represents a cost to HV. I do believe that that cost has resulted in a positive return for not only HV but also our clients.

Booking agents SHOULD BE not a whole lot different. As you do with Pieter, I also feel my role with Jacques has been different than the average booking agent. But it really shouldn't be terribly different. A good booking agent should be looking out for both client and outfitter alike. If the booking agent is doing that and they're honest, then I'd say they're not useless. That they have a role and in the end have earned compensation.

From your post you seem to suggest that booking agents are costing clients money. I'm not sure why you say that, but it seems you're suggesting that the booking agents are somehow tacking on extra money to the hunt cost and pocketing that difference. I can't speak for all booking agents, but that's not how I see it working. From what I've seen the agents are getting quotes from Jacques and then passing those on back to the prospective client, no different than what you or I do. Once the hunt has sold and been paid for, then the agent gets paid his commission. That's very different than say the outfitter selling a hunt for say $10K, the booking agent then "sells" that to the client for $12K and the agent pockets $2000. Maybe it works that way in other places, but thats not how I've seen it working.

 

[jeff]

A booking agents is getting paid by the outfitter, he's working for him and that's where his allegiance will probably be. You have a better chance of negotiating prices directly with the outfitter as he doesn't have to pay a agent and may pass that along. Reps usually get paid in perks on hunts such as cheap day fees and reduced trophy fees.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I copied this from the other thread.

Guys, I'm booking agent from Russia. February 2014 I booked with Bakker and through Theo 3 rhinos for my clients. they paid close to 250K direct to Bakker. Hunt never happened. After a week in South Africa with "tomorrow, tomorrow" I went to police. According to what I know Anton is in jailing and we are still waiting for the court.
Theo formally was not responcible because money were paid direct to Rhinocon but my clients are sure they were dealing together with Bakker.
Theo is staying in Ukraine not visiting South Africa.
Police in Modi Molle ( Captain Murray lim.modimolle.det@saps.gov.za) says there are minimum several hunters which paid close to 500K to Mr Bakker.

Who you going to trust?

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

A booking agents is getting paid by the outfitter, he's working for him and that's where his allegiance will probably be.

Not necessarily. While there certainly needs to be a good business relationship between the outfitter and agent for it to be a long term relationship, the smart booking agent in my mind is also looking out for their client's interest.

Most booking agents I know book for multiple outfitters in multiple countries. If the agent is looking out for his client too, he stands a much better chance of that client being a repeat customer. So I'd say the booking agent needs to be an advocate for both client and outfitter.

 

[billc]

A booking agents is getting paid by the outfitter, he's working for him and that's where his allegiance will probably be. You have a better chance of negotiating prices directly with the outfitter as he doesn't have to pay a agent and may pass that along. Reps usually get paid in perks on hunts such as cheap day fees and reduced trophy fees.

We have a winner and thank you jeff as your more or less right on the money but I did not want to come right out and give the secret away. For people who like agents use them by all means.Maybe my useless comment is a strong one but most guys could do better by booking direct. But for guys who want the service and less to do there is a value there for them then.

Phil it maybe just the way I look at things compared to must I guess. If the hunt with the agent cost 12,000.00 but if I booked my hunt direct and did the right negotiating for my self and get the hunt for 11,ooo.00 or less did the agent cost me money or not.

As for if I have turned down stuff pieter offered yes I have because it is not why I started helping him for. Do I get breaks yes I do but in no way and I mean no way do they ever cost a hunter a penny. Hell the deal he gave me on my hunt before I was his rep would make must people shake there head as why I have all the luck. Hell I have plenty to do for him to just earn what he did for me already.

I have dealt with more then a few outfitters in my days and pieter has always gone way above what he ever has to because that is what he feels is right. I would say my deal with pieter is not like any rep or agent has with anyone else. I really dont feel I need to go into anymore details on that the rest is between me and pieter.

Why I feel maybe my deal with pieter works so well is neither of us are trying to become rich overnight. Do we know we could charge more sometime yes we do but staying busy and giving people a chance to do trips is part of our plan also.Treating each other with respect and neither taking advantage of the other keeps it fair for us both. I dont ever plan on just being a rep or agent so I have no long term goal like that.

Some may call what i do stupid as I have always tried to give more then I get. Even in my everyday job I know I leave money on the table with what I charge. But boy do I sleep well at night knowing I am different then most on how they try and take every penny from someone when they can.

I like to think the fair way I do everyday stuff is why I get to go to africa cheaper then must. Why I have friends in new mexico were I get to hunt very cheap each year. I have always been lucky with deals coming my way and I guess I like to think it is because of the way I run my everyday life.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

We have a winner and thank you jeff as your more or less right on the money but I did not want to come right out and give the secret away. For people who like agents use them by all means.Maybe my useless comment is a strong one but most guys could do better by booking direct. But for guys who want the service and less to do there is a value there for them then.

Phil it maybe just the way I look at things compared to must I guess. If the hunt with the agent cost 12,000.00 but if I booked my hunt direct and did the right negotiating for my self and get the hunt for 11,ooo.00 or less did the agent cost me money or not.

As for if I have turned down stuff pieter offered yes I have because it is not why I started helping him for. Do I get breaks yes I do but in no way and I mean no way do they ever cost a hunter a penny. Hell the deal he gave me on my hunt before I was his rep would make must people shake there head as why I have all the luck. Hell I have plenty to do for him to just earn what he did for me already.

I have dealt with more then a few outfitters in my days and pieter has always gone way above what he ever has to because that is what he feels is right. I would say my deal with pieter is not like any rep or agent has with anyone else. I really dont feel I need to go into anymore details on that the rest is between me and pieter.

Why I feel maybe my deal with pieter works so well is neither of us are trying to become rich overnight. Do we know we could charge more sometime yes we do but staying busy and giving people a chance to do trips is part of our plan also.Treating each other with respect and neither taking advantage of the other keeps it fair for us both. I dont ever plan on just being a rep or agent so I have no long term goal like that.

Some may call what i do stupid as I have always tried to give more then I get. Even in my everyday job I know I leave money on the table with what I charge. But boy do I sleep well at night knowing I am different then most on how they try and take every penny from someone when they can.

I like to think the fair way I do everyday stuff is why I get to go to africa cheaper then must. Why I have friends in new mexico were I get to hunt very cheap each year. I have always been lucky with deals coming my way and I guess I like to think it is because of the way I run my everyday life.

I certainly won't argue that the booking agent's commission is something an outfitter has to take into account, without it, there's certainly more room for the client to negotiate. Your previous post made it sound like the outfitter is charging one price the agent charging above and beyond that. I guess that may happen in some circumstances but it has not been what I've seen. Have you seen this happen?

From what I've also seen is that some booking agents are in fact working to negotiate on their clients behalf, to the point HV would lose money by the time the agent's commission was taken into account. But it goes to my point and refutes this idea that the agent has sole allegiance to the outfitter.

Now if you're getting breaks on hunts that others wouldn't get because of the work you do for Pieter, you can call it whatever you want, but in the end that is a cost to his business. That is lost revenue that he could have otherwise realized. If in fact it amounts to an actual loss versus break even / small profit situation, it's an even bigger cost. One way or another that has to be accounted for even if it's not coming directly out of a client's pocket.

As far as getting rich quick goes, anyone entering this business who thinks it's such a piece of cake and they'll be rich overnight......well I think those types are pretty foolish and not long for this business.

 

[Royal27]

ar as getting rich quick goes, anyone entering this business who thinks it's such a piece of cake and they'll be rich overnight......well I think those types are pretty foolish and not long for this business

The funniest part of the Meme is that I stole it from Pieter's FB page.

 

[billc]

I have seen the outfitter selling the hunts cheaper at a show then a booking agent he uses that does the same show. I have not seen were a booking agent charged more then say outfitter pricelist pricing. I was just not very clear I guess what I was trying to say about you pay more with a booking agent sometimes.

I also guess I look at it if the hunter books the hunt with info he gets from me and it cost him 10,000 and ask pieter for a quote direct and it is still 10,000 it is the same cost. unlike if the hunter gets a quote from the agent at 12,000 but direct gets the price of 11.000. If the cost of doing business does not the effect the hunter I see my service as better then what you would get from an agent normally. Again this is my thoughts and we all know I am different then most on that subject.

Like I said my dealing with pieter are no were what I would call the norm from people helping each other out.

 

[jeff]

Phil, notice I said probably on the behalf of the agent, I believe they're kind of like real estate agents they're there to help you but in the end they're working for the seller.