Any reason not to use a 350 grain .375 bullet for buffalo

[Certus]

I’ve always thought a .378 weatherby loaded with 350gr bullets would drill its way through absolutely anything that walks. Intend on one day having a .378 built, relatively heavy and open sights only for use with 350gr.

 

[One Day...]

Will drill its way OK @Certus... on both sides... Fierce power, fierce recoil... Newton's third law...

Should be in the order of 85+ft/lbs of free recoil. More than twice a typical .375 H&H 300 gr, and almost the same as a .416 Wby 400 gr from a 10 lbs rifle. Or about 15% more than a .458 Lott 500 gr from a 10 lbs rifle.

Allow me to suggest from experience no less than 11 lbs for the rifle (which is still pretty easy to carry all day, regardless of the current fashion for light guns - ask the guys who carried 23 lbs M60 or similar - AA52, MG3, etc. - all day for weeks at a time in operations!). Recoil will still be memorable, but it will be manageable. To put things in perspective, .577 NE shooters absorb over 120 ft/lbs, and .600 NE shooters deal with 150 ft/lbs of free recoil. God bless them!

The only interesting question will be: can you control the rifle enough that the bullet has the time to exit the barrel before the recoil goes wild?

Based on experience with my 8 lbs 13 oz .458 Lott - which is way too light and dishes out 80 ft/lbs of free recoil - this is completely doable for the accuracy that a 50 yd open sight dangerous game shot requires, i.e. hit a 6" steel plate at 50 yd every time. Mind you, hitting 100% of the time 6" vitals at 50 yd, which is plenty OK for 'minute of buffalo' is still shooting a whopping 12 MOA!!!!

You will need some SERIOUS practice to shoot 2 to 4 MOA with 80+ ft/lbs of recoil from field positions. Reportedly, some do...

 

[Certus]

@One Day - about 11lbs is the number I had in mind. There’s a beautiful one on GI on a Champlin action. Too rich for me but ah well!

 

[Rock375]

If anyone is interested I’ve got a box of 350 GR Barnes TSX and 350 GR Barnes Banded solids I bought and will probably never use. I’ve got both my 375’s dialed in with 270 and 300 GR Barnes. I’ll let them both go for $65.00 total including shipping. Both box’s are full with 50 bullets each.

 

[Rock375]

If anyone is interested I’ve got a box of 350 GR Barnes TSX and 350 GR Barnes Banded solids I bought and will probably never use. I’ve got both my 375’s dialed in with 270 and 300 GR Barnes. I’ll let them both go for $65.00 total including shipping. Both box’s are full with 50 bullets each.

 

[Paul Homsy]

Red Leg got me thinking about the 350g TSX. My load gives me 2257fps at the muzzle. Now what that does at 30, 50, 75 yards is a good question. It may drop below the 2k minimum. I just checked my last practice target and it shows no keyhole or yaw at 100 yards and I got a 2 inch group. Maybe I was real lucky with that buff. The entrance wound showed no deformity from a nice round bullet size hole in his chest. I was planning on using the 350gTSXs on eland next year but in light of Red Leg's experience, I do have some 235TSXs that worked great on PG last year. They might be the way to go and my rifle likes them.
Thanks for the heads up.

Using the Greenhill method to calculate stabilizatin. The 350 grains TSX requires a 1/13 barrel twist in order to stabilize. Most 375 H&H barrels have a rate of twist of 1 in 12. Unless a barrel has a slower twist as in some older guns, (1 in14) that particular bullet is perfectly stabilized at normal speed (200fps to 2300 fps) in a standard 375. I can only speak for this particular bullet. Barnes states its length which is necessary to know in order to make the calculation.

 

[Paul Homsy]

View attachment 256099

If by this time, a bit late I realise, no one has expressed interest. I am interested.

 

[Newboomer]

If by this time, a bit late I realise, no one has expressed interest. I am interested.

I used Barnes 350gr TSX in 375HH for buf and eland on my last hunt. One head on shot for my buf at about 30 yds. He ran about 50 yds and we found him dead. Not even a death bellow. We couldn't find the slug and the PH guessed it went stem to stern. It sure tore up the heart and innards on it's way through.

My eland was a head on shot through the lungs and he ran half a mile spraying blood. Found him lying down and an insurance shot finished him.

I get good two inch groups at 100 yds from my Win 70 with Barnes 235grTSX and Barnes 350grTSX. I ran some factory Federal 270gr and 300gr soft points and some PPU 300gr softpoints just to see what they would do. 2 inches at 100 yds off the sticks. Guess my gun isn't too finicky about it's diet. It gets minute of springbok at 200 yds so I can't complain.

 

[WAB]

I used Woodleigh 350 gr softs and conventional solids at 2300 fps on one hunt. The softs were used on a buffalo and the solids on an elephant.

Based on my experience on that and other hunts, I would use a 300 gr A-Frame over the 350 gr Woodleigh soft.

The solid is another beast altogether. That 350 gr Woodleigh conventional solid at 2300 fps has more penetration than any other bullet I have used. It is also incredibly accurate in my rifle, ahooting 1/2” 3 shot groups at 100. If I were hunting elephant with the .375 that is the bullet I would use.

 

[colorado]

Woodleigh used to make a 350g HD SP. If they still do, that would be the one I would use. I load them in my 375 Weatherby to 2550 fps. At 2300 fps in a 375 H&H they should still be devastating.

 

[WAB]

Woodleigh used to make a 350g HD SP. If they still do, that would be the one I would use. I load them in my 375 Weatherby to 2550 fps. At 2300 fps in a 375 H&H they should still be devastating.

I believe you are referring to the Weldcore which is the bullet I used and referenced above as the ‘soft’. You may want to check the impact velocity Woodleigh recommends on that bullet. If memory serves, you may be pushing its limits with that weatherby.

 

[Paul Homsy]

Using the Greenhill method to calculate stabilizatin. The 350 grains TSX requires a 1/13 barrel twist in order to stabilize. Most 375 H&H barrels have a rate of twist of 1 in 12. Unless a barrel has a slower twist as in some older guns, (1 in14) that particular bullet is perfectly stabilized at normal speed (200fps to 2300 fps) in a standard 375. I can only speak for this particular bullet. Barnes states its length which is necessary to know in order to make the calculation.

Correction: first line, stabilization, not "stabilizatin". 3rd line, reference to speed, please read 2000 fps, not "200".

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The Woodleigh HD .375 bullets have a thicker jacket that the standard weldcore round nose. Heavy Duty

 

[nomspc]

I missed this thread the first time around. My go to in .375 was always the 300 grain Barnes. After talking this over with Kevin Robertson, I decided to try the 350 grain Woodleigh Weldcore HD at 2300 fps out of my R8 for buffalo. They should call it the ND for No Drama. 5 PG and one buff with one shot and little running. Second buff got a second shot, but I don’t think it was necessary. As an example, the first animal was a blue wildebeest, quartering away at 100 yards. By the time I had a clear shot, there was not much of an angle and I shot him behind the ribs aiming at the opposite shoulder. He just fell over. The bullet was found lodged in the opposite shoulder, outstanding penetration and expansion. Both buffalo reacted visibly to the hit, and went down quickly. Great buffalo bullet.

 

[Challer]

Encourage everyone to try CED safari solid or raptor any day. I personally don't see the need nor benefit for 350g.

 

[Puddle]

Well, I guess I'm gonna find out for myself. On my upcoming hunt I'm planning to use factory Norma 350 gr. Weldcores.
I'm also bringing along a box of factory 300 gr. A-Frames in case of Plan B...

 

[crs]

While on the subject of .375 350 grain bullets on Cape Buffalo, how about a . 458 350 grain North Fork SS on buffalo?
My Beretta .458 DR is now being regulated for North Fork 350 SS bullets at velocities well above 2000 fps..
Though not originally planned for use on heavy DG, this thread made me consider it.
These bullets also are quite accurate from my 1886 45-90 and I have loaded some for it too, with plans to shoot them over my Chrony soon.

 

[AZDAVE]

First off you are planning on using your double, it is regulated with 300gr. From what I have read you are planning on trying factory 350gr vs handloading? They might regulate with acceptable accuracy but I would give you about 5% odds of that happening. I don't have a 375 double but my 9.3x74 is regulated with 286gr I as able to work up a load for 300gr Aframes that shot better than my 286gr Aframes. So I did try to get the 320gr Woodleighs to work. They stabilized fine but couldn't get them going fast enough within safe pressures to regulate. My 286 shoots 2r,2l into 1 7/8 group and the 300 1 3/8 the 320gr opened up to 6 in group. Is your double a H&H or flanged? I hope your rifle is the exception and shoots both well.

 

[VertigoBE]

@One Day... and the other ballistics experts here: Reading through this thread, the calculations you made and conclusions you came to, are exactly opposite to what @nomspc in his discussion with Kevin Robertson received as advice. Also mentioned in Kevin Robertson's recent podcast, where he claims that for outstanding penetration, one needs good bullet stability, which is found in heavy for caliber bullets, in relation to typical twist rates.

Did I misunderstand something here? Because these views are not two different shades of colour, they are diametrically opposed views. One saying, 350grains (heavy for caliber) is (generally) no good for bullet stability and thus more prone to keyholing and lower performance in penetration. The other saying the heavy for caliber bullets are better for penetration performance....

I'm a bit confused now...

 

[liam375]

This is just my own personal experience and observation on the 6 Cape buffalo I’ve taken last two years (which may be more and be significantly less than others here) but I have used the 350 gr Norma factory ammo in 375 and had mixed results with penetration. Both noted by myself and PH on at least two of the buff is that if you are shooting through brush or twigs the 350 soft bullet seems to deform very early and the penetration was less than desired on the first shot.
Others that were clear broadside shots with no obstructions succumbed very quickly and reacted very hard to the impact.

Im sure at the end of the day the 350 gr is fine but this was a very noticeable trend during my own hunts. Definitely prepare to sneak in a second shot quickly if your first one is going to hit brush. Welcome all challenges to this observation and I won’t take offense if you have thoughts contrary to it.

Something is telling me the swift A frame in 300 grain and tsx or 350 HD woodleigh would fare better when you are shooting through brush, sticks, branches etc.
As a result of my experience, I would definitely apply more caution or prefer to wait for a better angle with the 350. To me, after having learned the hard way myself, patience on good clear broadside presentation is worth it over what can be an extended and dangerous follow up job.

just my thoughts!