African price wars!

[firehuntfish]

Gizmo,
I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree. The problem of late though is not with prospective clients' looking to negotiate per se... Heck, I am a client, and I try to negotiate all the time.

The problem is with some of these outfits setting the standard so low to begin with. Prospective clients don't even have to negotiate, the competing outfits are doing it for them...

 

[gizmo]

I understand, the thing is they are only going to take those that fall into the bargain shopper or Kia buyer category.
One of the main points I've tried to make is that Jaco doesn't per sea compete with those guys. Sure there is some overlap such as sable. But he offers a completely different product. Those bargain shoppers are going to stick to SA anyway based on price alone.

 

[gizmo]

It's not like this type of sales strategy or client negotiations is some type of new thing. It's been going on since the first caveman was selling rocks.

 

[firehuntfish]

I understand, the thing is they are only going to take those that fall into the bargain shopper or Kia buyer category.
One of the main points I've tried to make is that Jaco doesn't per sea compete with those guys. Sure there is some overlap such as sable. But he offers a completely different product. Those bargain shoppers are going to stick to SA anyway based on price alone.

Not necessarily true...

It's not like this type of sales strategy or client negotiations is some type of new thing. It's been going on since the first caveman was selling rocks.

True... However, The point that Jaco and I are trying to make is that the average first-time safari client doesn't know or yet understand the differences between the low and high end operators other than the price. We may offer completely different products, but the differences are not readily apparent over the internet.... In any event, flooding the market with Kia dealerships is not good for anyone's business IMO.... Then you get the Chevy dealerships to bend because everybody is buying Kias.... And don't think this is an SA vs. the rest of southern Africa issue. There are quite a few SA based operators at completely different ends of the price and product spectrum.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

@gizmo you are absolutely right, I noticed that many pinned it to supply and demand, I still tend to disagree...
I believe lion was a very significant contributor to many outfitters and many that market in the U.S. Exclusively, with the import ban in effect many guys will have a significantly lower turn over than seasons past.
This was the impetus for such super low (un heard of before) buffalo packages as well as Sable.

Let's be honest these two species, add roan are the highest once off turn over species an outfitter can sell with relative ease.... Hence the focus on them this marketing season.

I truly believe the second to be the exchange rate, which is a dangerous game to play, unless as I witnessed a full pay prior to arrival date system is in place like some did, and or placing a time limit on hunt availability, i.e. Hunt to take place prior to May 15 2016 which I also saw.

I guess guys came up with inventive strategies, to push turn over in clients and hunts, to make up or expand they're businesses this year.

However logic it might seem this year for the reasons mentioned above was an absolute anomaly.

I do hunt in SA aswell, it is different from others, but I still hunt in SA as well apart from Moz.

I am a member of Limpopo outfitters group and the exact same astonishment at this years pricing is a discussion at the moment it is definitely not as common as some might think.

My best always

 

[gizmo]

I understand what y'all are saying and I'm not saying I disagree with all of your points. The main thing I'm trying to stress is that Jaco you are selling yourself short a bit. Your hunts are completely different than those of the bargain prices hunt category thus it has little effect on your outfit. It's comparing apples to oranges. Example
A guy who wants to hunt buff in the selous could care less about a bargain SA buff hunt. He knows what he wants and is willing to pay the extra cost to get it. All of you outfitters in Moz, Zimbabwe, Zambia, And Tanzania are in the same boat. Those first timers to Africa are going to chase hunts in SA, Namibia, and to an extent Botswana. Completely different market. Sure there is some over lap but by your logic that would be saying that my Texas Dall sheep hunts directly compete with those in Alaska which they don't.
None of this has anything to do with exchange rates anyway.

 

[uplander01]

Gentleman-

So many good points here. Hats off to all you guys that are PH/Outfitters in Africa, and surviving the difficulties that come along with it. I hadn't paid much attention to the exchange rates and currency values affecting your costs, but the comments about coming to the US to recruit clients and the cost associated with that having gone up got my attention. Its remarkable how expensive everything has gotten here in the U.S. Yes gas prices are down, but average guys are taking a beating in the financial markets, and have you been to a grocery store in the US lately, holy crap man. I work in the gun industry and the costs associated with going to the seasonal shows has nearly doubled in the last 10 years. So if this is part of your overhead I can see why you're feeling it.

There are going to be many difficulties in the future the way I see it. When you get in a circle of industry guys depending on how well you know them, you will hear a lot of reasons why not to go anywhere right now. Even with the more attractive pricing. I for one am booked for Moz in Sept for buff and sable, I couldn't resist the "good guy" deal with a PH that has become a friend of mine having hunted with he and his guys in the past.

Don't mean to drone on, but wanted to contribute my two cents. Dollar for Dollar Africa is the best value in big game hunting IMO, I hope it stays that way. The Outfitters here in NA lost me at 20k+ US for bear and moose hunts, not to mention sheep hunting has become an activity for the lifestyles of the rich and famous, it's ridiculous.

I guess that is my main point, when it gets so cost prohibitive that a guy with a good job and a lifetime of hunting experience loses interest completely due to huge inflated pricing, that is the beginning of the end for the entire culture of big game hunting my friends. Whackin' turkeys on the weekends just ain't gonna cut it for me, I'd rather sell my guns and focus on big game fishing. No offense to the turkey hunters out there.

So whatever you PH's need to do to survive and keep rolling, do it, there are those among us that know what you're up against and will continue to keep making the trip because of the value and experience.

Cheers-

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I understand what y'all are saying and I'm not saying I disagree with all of your points. The main thing I'm trying to stress is that Jaco you are selling yourself short a bit. Your hunts are completely different than those of the bargain prices hunt category thus it has little effect on your outfit. It's comparing apples to oranges. Example
A guy who wants to hunt buff in the selous could care less about a bargain SA buff hunt. He knows what he wants and is willing to pay the extra cost to get it. All of you outfitters in Moz, Zimbabwe, Zambia, And Tanzania are in the same boat. Those first timers to Africa are going to chase hunts in SA, Namibia, and to an extent Botswana. Completely different market. Sure there is some over lap but by your logic that would be saying that my Texas Dall sheep hunts directly compete with those in Alaska which they don't.
None of this has anything to do with exchange rates anyway.

Even the one where I agree with yours?

 

[lwaters]

I guess i miss the days of the $5 buffet and scantly dressed girls giving you drinks for a buck

You know it! Vegas was expensive especially with the Mrs. but did the best buisiness I have done in one day in 15 years, so I could live with it.
Dallas was deaaaad oil is obviously taking a beating, the rest of the U.S. From what I experienced open to hunt and enjoy Africa, no matter who you are.

Luckily I don't go close to a gambling table...

 

[BRICKBURN]

I guess i miss the days of the $5 buffet and scantly dressed girls giving you drinks for a buck

You suggesting a new Safari model???

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

You suggesting a new Safari model???

Beats @Jaco Strauss or @spike.t no matter what they may be charging for drinks!

 

[Lee M]

A few outfitters adding that would sure spice up this forum. I wonder if that would be considered an option for "Kia" or "Bentley" outfitter. I can just see the forum battles....but our models are better beacause..... Too funny

As long as we are lightening up this forum and using car to define outfitters I thought I would put out some text I found online with respect to Bentleys from a UK road magazine

"They may be dream cars for many motorists, but Bentleys and Porsches could cause their drivers more headaches than any other make of car a new study has found. The two prestigious marques carry hefty price tags, but are at the bottom of an annual index ranking cars by their reliability."

The article ranked Bentleys last at #38. Oh by the way, KIA was #18.

So be careful with what car you may want to associate your hunting outfit with

All in good fun...

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

A few outfitters adding that would sure spice up this forum. I wonder if that would be considered an option for "Kia" or "Bentley" outfitter. I can just see the forum battles....but our models are better beacause..... Too funny

As long as we are lightening up this forum and using car to define outfitters I thought I would put out some text I found online with respect to Bentleys from a UK road magazine

"They may be dream cars for many motorists, but Bentleys and Porsches could cause their drivers more headaches than any other make of car a new study has found. The two prestigious marques carry hefty price tags, but are at the bottom of an annual index ranking cars by their reliability."

The article ranked Bentleys last at #38. Oh by the way, KIA was #18.

So be careful with what car you may want to associate your hunting outfit with

All in good fun...

That's funny!

 

[ActionBob]

I went back and looked again at the opening post... The way the numbers are quoted it brings to mind the saying "statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is intriguing, but what they conceal is vital!"

IMO, those statistics are wearing blue overalls.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I went back and looked again at the opening post... The way the numbers are quoted it brings to mind the saying "statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is intriguing, but what they conceal is vital!"

IMO, those statistics are wearing blue overalls.

@ActionBob I still know what I spent in marketing last year, as an FYI I only put on forum that which has come out of the industry this year, these are the opinions and experiences of many many outfitters, from SA.
Would you like me to name them? This way you can contact them individually and and provide them with your figures?

I am sure you will still find your appropriate safari at your desired cost, which is 100% fair.

But at this exchange rate marketing is very expensive this year, and if our economy keeps on diving the way it is, hunting will not get any cheaper I can tell you that much.

So in closing...I am unsure as to what you are insinuating by blue overalls, I don't really care, but sit back and watch, we'll talk again.

My best always

 

[ActionBob]

Jaco I'm struggling making sense of the numbers but going to actually take a little time and look at them more closely today. Now I plan to look at them in as true an accrual fashion as I can. We do budgeting all the time and have a staff of 4 full time accountants, several assistants, a partner who is an MBA who won't let anything figured in wrong way slip past, and we contract with 4 CPA's..... And I know a few things about business myself.

Granted I don't know your costs, nor how to run a safari company, but I want to at least try to justify in theory my points.

If you don't mind, what percent of your 2015 or 2014 budget did you spend on advertising? And is there any other cost that for your RSA operations that you must pay in USD?

 

[lwaters]

You suggesting a new Safari model???

No I never paid anything for food or beer on the two safaris I been on.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

It's simple really:
Where a double booth in Dallas cost R40 000 + last year
It cost close to R80 000 this year.
Where a $150 hotel room was R1500 last year this year it was R2250

That's more money spent. More expensive. Roughly 40% over the broad spectrum.

It all adds up bietjie bietjie maak Baie......
Translation: a little little makes allot,

 

[Areaonereal]

Jaco,
This year you quoted 7k US, do a hunt with anole client, that equals R105'000. How would that compare to 2015 pricing with the rand being 11 to one dollar.

 

[lwaters]

No I never paid anything for food or beer on the two safaris I been on.

It's simple really:
Where a double booth in Dallas cost R40 000 + last year
It cost close to R80 000 this year.
Where a $150 hotel room was R1500 last year this year it was R2250

That's more money spent. More expensive. Roughly 40% over the broad spectrum.

It all adds up bietjie bietjie maak Baie......
Translation: a little little makes allot,

Oh I thought you guys were paying around 40,000 usd for a booth. I just figured it was another Vegas rip off but I bet he met rands.