A little food for thought - Pricing on African Hunting Safaris

[billc]

Ok jaco, I like that you stick with your belief like you do. It has worked for you and I hope it does till you decide to stop being a PH

Because you wont drive does not make it wrong for some outfitter that will. As of right now you would not take my hunt because you would not travel for springbuck. So do I remove that from my list or find the guy who will get me anything on my list I want.
He quotes me on my list tells me we will need to drive to get everything I want. Hear is the key part everyone seems to miss with the giving info. At that point it is the hunter choice if he wants to drive to go for even that one animal. That does not make the outfitter a walmart or blacktop hunter. IT makes him the outfitter who will do as he client wants him to do.


I know we all like to think everyone gets back to africa after they go the first time. That does not always happen though. So someone who wants to take all the animals they may have dreamed of may just need to drive some to make that happen.

 

[ChrisT]

Well... This thread indeed did grow some legs as some were hoping for it to... For better or worse...

As the starter of this thread - in conclusion I'll say this:

• I might disagree with how others in my industry elect to do run their businesses but I did not start this thread to try and teach them how to do business...
• I do not think that it is responsible for a business owner to concentrate on incidental costs as opposed to actual cost of doing business and I will not try to convince anyone that their businesses will be unsustainable in the long run. This they'll have to figure out for themselves... Question is - "At whose expense though?"
• Whether I buy my vehicles new or used, in cash or on credit, with or without a maintenance plan... none of these cover devaluation of the asset. If I buy a new vehicle for R500K today - it will be worth R450k tomorrow and a year later it will be worth R350K. If the vehicle is an asset of the business - used for business - the business should pay for it. If not; and if an employee of the business uses his private vehicle for the business - the employee should be paid for use of it. Nothing is (nor should be) for free... These are costs that need to be taken into account when running business - irrespective of "who owns the business" and irrespective of whether the owner of the business is also an employee...
• And whether I elect to use my own camp to host clients in and pay a chef R600pd + R250p/p/d for food or whether I pay a lodge owner R850p/p/d - it boils down to the same thing... Difference is if I have two clients in my camp at the same time - it costs me R550p/p/d instead of R850... And if I have 4 clients it costs me R412p/p... So in theory it is actually I as land and camp owner who makes more money by having more clients in camp at the same time - not the guy who rents a camp... But having said this - my expenses don't stop here... Yes, of course; I also have to pay more for electricity and more for staff but (to use Bill's words re the exchange rate) it evens out in the end...
• It is true that money is to be made on trophy fees and this adds up to the final profit on a hunt...depending on what the exchange rate does and how crazy landowners get with their prices... - this could be significant or insignificant... More important question is: "How dependent on the exchange rate are YOUR Outfitter's prices?"
• Ultimately a profitable and successful business cannot be dependent purely on whether the "trophy fee division" makes money or not or whether there is a 3rd /4th source of income or not...
• And ultimately... I'd personally much prefer to do business with a sustainable business than one - that (on paper at least) - is not...

Finally; as has been said earlier in this thread... We should be wary not to undersell ourselves just to get the business... In the long run it doesn't do either ourselves or our clients any good.

Hunting in Africa is a very special experience and it should remain that way... Sustainably so!

Best,

Chris

 

[peras]

Chris, thank you for starting the thread, although it went of track, I am sure all of us took something out of it. I always have more respect for those speaking their mind than those sitting on the fence.
Even though our math differs we obviously have the same passion.

I honostly look forward to meeting you, and after having a peep at your website and facebook page I realised we are from the same town and basically same age group.
Guess we will have surprisingly much in common when we finally meet.

 

[slad68]

I am not going to say to much but.

Just because one guy offers a package for less than others does not mean he is underpriced or not making money or giving a poor service. He might just be in a position where he gets his game and accommodation for less than others does.

One question that has come to me numerous times is,
HOW DO YOU JUDGE a GOOD PH? / OR SAY THAT GUY IS THE BEST PH EVER.

Well my answer is and will always be.

YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST HUNT WAS.

One hunt might be good and you are considered the best PH ever and the next might not be as good or successful then you are considered the worst PH ever. I say this because I know and have first hand experience.
That's how I see it but of course it's just me.

 

[billc]

I am not going to say to much but.

Just because one guy offers a package for less than others does not mean he is underpriced or not making money or giving a poor service. He might just be in a position where he gets his game and accommodation for less than others does.

One question that has come to me numerous times is,
HOW DO YOU JUDGE a GOOD PH? / OR SAY THAT GUY IS THE BEST PH EVER.

Well my answer is and will always be.

YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST HUNT WAS.

One hunt might be good and you are considered the best PH ever and the next might not be as good or successful then you are considered the worst PH ever. I say this because I know and have first hand experience.
That's how I see it but of course it's just me.

Bossie and do you mean he passes that discount on to the hunter for a better then avg. deal for the hunter and not put all he could have in his pocket instead. Go figure that would be a outfitter who puts a hunter first and still makes a living.

AS far as being the best ph you better step up with a better selection of hunting wear if you want that title. Maybe with a nice pink tee you could get closer to that title.

 

[slad68]

Bill, that is why I sell for the price I do.
The pink might work for Paw and U but not for LBG

 

[billc]

You could be right to wear pink you need to be a bad ass. The more I think about it a nice bright yellow maybe good for you. haha

 

[slad68]

Maybe so
you never know
LOL

 

[BRICKBURN]

wayne great scenery in that lake photo , but it looks like it might be a little bit on the cold side even if the sun is shining.........

You want to see how nuts our weather is. Chinook has come in.
The forecast for this coming weekend has the temperature up at +15C

All those guys coming in for the show are not even going to get a real blast of winter when they arrive here.

Chris will be sweating on that dog sled ride. Better have some sun glasses with you.
African sun us nothing in comparison to reflected light off that snow.
"Snow Blindness" You do not want to experience that pain, ever.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Chris will be sweating on that dog sled ride. Better have some sun glasses with you.
African sun us nothing in comparison to reflected light off that snow.
"Snow Blindness" You do not want to experience that pain, ever.

Maybe true, but just finished the first safari of the year. Day number 1, 45°C, that's 113°F for our USA friends. Snow blindness might be bad, but still difficult to hunt when you develop arc eyes while on the stalk

 

[BRICKBURN]

Maybe true, but just finished the first safari of the year. Day number 1, 45°C, that's 113°F for our USA friends. Snow blindness might be bad, but still difficult to hunt when you develop arc eyes while on the stalk

About the same effect. Damn that's hot.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

About the same effect. Damn that's hot.

Problem is, we're leaving for the outdoor shows this coming Sunday, and I'm not sure whether customs will mistake me for my brother in Nigeria

 

[BRICKBURN]

Problem is, we're leaving for the outdoor shows this coming Sunday, and I'm not sure whether customs will mistake me for my brother in Nigeria

Just show them your Christmas card. You'll be fine.

 

[spike.t]

Just show them your Christmas card. You'll be fine.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Ok jaco, I like that you stick with your belief like you do. It has worked for you and I hope it does till you decide to stop being a PH

Because you wont drive does not make it wrong for some outfitter that will. As of right now you would not take my hunt because you would not travel for springbuck. So do I remove that from my list or find the guy who will get me anything on my list I want.
He quotes me on my list tells me we will need to drive to get everything I want. Hear is the key part everyone seems to miss with the giving info. At that point it is the hunter choice if he wants to drive to go for even that one animal. That does not make the outfitter a walmart or blacktop hunter. IT makes him the outfitter who will do as he client wants him to do.


I know we all like to think everyone gets back to africa after they go the first time. That does not always happen though. So someone who wants to take all the animals they may have dreamed of may just need to drive some to make that happen.

There are many excellent outfitters offering springbuck I their area, to me it makes no economical sense to travel 300 miles to get you a springbuck if your other species are kudu, blue wildebeest, impala and warthog.

If there were several such as black wildebeest, springbuck, and lechwe or lion, of course I would as that would make sense.

With that said for return clients after 1 or two Safari's we strategically plan such a trip with multiple species as above

I do not travel to Zim for elephant on a Mozambique leopard hunt even if my north bank area is 125 miles straight shot into Dande.

My best.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Chill old timer!

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Or anywhere?

 

[peras]

The Bubye Conservancy in Zim has plentiful honey badgers. You can bait for them but lions and/or leopards may get there first. I called for hyenas at night and we had two adolescent lions, and later a leopard respond to the the calls. Exciting stuff! Did get a hyena, though, saw many. The best way to get a honey badger is to drag a gutpile behind truck late in day, then go back at night. Also shot a genet and a civet that way. Good Luck.

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Thought this is over. Guess I will order one more bourbon.

 

[peras]

Must add, met Chris in Calgary the type of person I will share a campfire with anyday.