A Genuine Question : Why Is Hornady So Hated?

[grand veneur]

Okay now here's an interesting point. How old is the ammunition that you take on a hunt? I think if we've been hunting long enough, we have experienced failures of ammunition in the field. I can recall two such instances which cost me a kill on thin skinned game.

How long do you keep hunting ammunition around?

How soon do you hand load your ammunition up for your hunt?

That is very different for me and depends on the hunt and the rifle using for it.

I almost only use hand-loaded cartridges , an exception was a long time ago the cartridge 9.3x64 , because the factory loads from RWS were very accurate in my rifle.

When it comes to hunting worldwide and especially hunting DG in Africa , I load my cartridges shortly before departure and that with new or only once fired brass. I don't make compressed loads. If you need more power , there are enough cartridges for it. When returning home , the cartridges that have been carried around for hours under the sun will be used up or disassembled as quickly as possible.

For hunting in my area at home , I use cartridges that have sometimes been loaded for some time , but nothing is stored long because i am on the shooting range almost every week and train alternately with my rifles.

 

[Major Khan]

That is very different for me and depends on the hunt and the rifle using for it.

I almost only use hand-loaded cartridges , an exception was a long time ago the cartridge 9.3x64 , because the factory loads from RWS were very accurate in my rifle.

When it comes to hunting worldwide and especially hunting DG in Africa , I load my cartridges shortly before departure and that with new or only once fired brass. I don't make compressed loads. If you need more power , there are enough cartridges for it. When returning home , the cartridges that have been carried around for hours under the sun will be used up or disassembled as quickly as possible.

For hunting in my area at home , I use cartridges that have sometimes been loaded for some time , but nothing is stored long because i am on the shooting range almost every week and train alternately with my rifles.

You are 1 extremely meticulously thought out gentleman , Kurpfalzjager. I salute you.

 

[Pondoro]

Major...short shelf life for factory .458 ammo is a long gone issue.. It was a fact during the years Winchester loaded their ammo with a certain Olin ball powder that tended to clump together and starting to drive the bullets out...thus giving very poor performance..

I used 25 year old Federal ammo in my .458 rifle loaded early 90´s...I test fired it before the hunt and it gave consistent performance. No you may critizise me for using old ammo but then I know people who hunted with 50+ old ICI Kynoch ammo in their double rifles in Africa...now that is reckless to put it mildly...

 

[Major Khan]

Major...short shelf life for factory .458 ammo is a long gone issue.. It was a fact during the years Winchester loaded their ammo with a certain Olin ball powder that tended to clump together and starting to drive the bullets out...thus giving very poor performance..

I used 25 year old Federal ammo in my .458 rifle loaded early 90´s...I test fired it before the hunt and it gave consistent performance. No you may critizise me for using old ammo but then I know people who hunted with 50+ old ICI Kynoch ammo in their double rifles in Africa...now that is reckless to put it mildly...

That is reassuring , Pondoro. Thank you for correcting me . I stand corrected due to the new data that you have provided .
Was your ammunition 480 grain ?

 

[grand veneur]

I used 25 year old Federal ammo in my .458 rifle loaded early 90´s...I test fired it before the hunt and it gave consistent performance. No you may critizise me for using old ammo but then I know people who hunted with 50+ old ICI Kynoch ammo in their double rifles in Africa...now that is reckless to put it mildly...

I also had once to shoot with a rented rifle caliber 9,3x74R cartridges that were decades old , and from the german company DWM which at that time no longer existed. It went without problems , but it was a temporary solution and there is always a risk with such ammunition.

As far as old Kynoch ammunition is concerned , especially when it is loaded with cordite , you have to be extremely careful , there can be serious problems. I would never hunt with such ammunition.

 

[Pondoro]

I also had once to shoot with a rented rifle caliber 9,3x74R cartridges that were decades old , and from the german company DWM which at that time no longer existed. It went without problems , but it was a temporary solution and there is always a risk with such ammunition.

As far as old Kynoch ammunition is concerned , especially when it is loaded with cordite , you have to be extremely careful , there can be serious problems.

Kurpfalz…..I also recently shot a friends 8x57JRS double rifle....I had 2 old boxes of DWM ammo that performed excellent….DWM ammo must have been of high quality..

However, I do not agree with your comment on Kynoch loaded with cordite. The British chose cordite as propellant due to it being excellent for storage in all climates...it is more likely the old berdan primers that fail to ignite the cordite..

Up to recent years I shot my SMLE Mk III* with surplus WW2 cordite ammo without problems..

 

[Pondoro]

As a curiosity, WW2 .455 Webley revolver ammo is also notoriously bad due to primers that fail..

 

[Major Khan]

As a curiosity, WW2 .455 Webley revolver ammo is also notoriously bad due to primers that fail..

This is an interesting topic. During the Bangladesh Liberation War , many of us used Lee Enfield bolt rifles and .303 calibre cartridges which came from caches pre dating the 2nd World War. Most of it actually worked just fine .

 

[grand veneur]

After consultation with the company Holland & Holland , after checking the condition of the cartridges , aware of the storage of this ammunition , I fired on the shooting range 2 about fifty years old cordite loaded cartridges caliber 577 Nitro Express from Kynoch. It went well , even shot accurate , but for security reasons I will not repeat the experiment.

Despite everything , there is a very great danger with the cordite. It ages badly and its explosive effect increases. The primer failure is not the biggest problem.

I have disassembled a lot of old cordite-loaded cartridges and saw the condition of the cordite inside. I had a small explosion when I destroyed a large amount of cordite on a military area. Something like that is not common with cartridge powder. In all cases i would be very careful with old ammunition loaded with cordite.

 

[Pondoro]

After consultation with the company Holland & Holland , after checking the condition of the cartridges , aware of the storage of this ammunition , I fired on the shooting range 2 about fifty years old cordite loaded cartridges caliber 577 Nitro Express from Kynoch. It went well , even shot accurate , but for security reasons I will not repeat the experiment.

Despite everything , there is a very great danger with the cordite. It ages badly and its explosive effect increases. The primer failure is not the biggest problem.

I have disassembled a lot of old cordite-loaded cartridges and saw the condition of the cordite inside. I had a small explosion when I destroyed a large amount of cordite on a military area. Something like that is not common with cartridge powder. In all cases i would be very careful with old ammunition loaded with cordite.

My experience with old ammo has actually been opposite, ie that some flake powders (ballistite) has aged more badly than cordite ammo but there are always exceptions to the rule..

And of course...when firing priceless rifles like doubles in .577NE you play it safe and do not gamble with old and possibly bad ammunition..

 

[grand veneur]

It depends above all , on how the ammunition was stored.

 

[Pondoro]

It depends above all , on how the ammunition was stored.

Agreed..

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Read this , Mr. Haley
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/a-gun-which-lasted-a-career-a-life-time.54231/
That should answer your questions . I covered this topic in great detail several times over the last 2 months that l have been writing articles here .
@ryan80 and @Skinnersblade are pin point accurate in their assessment.
If me or any of my compatriots had access to even a .270 Winchester calibre rifle at that time , then l do not think that we would ever have used a shot gun for any land game . No new firearms were imported into India after the British left in 1947 . The only imported firearms available in the country were those which had already been brought into the country prior to 1947 , during the colonial era. If anything , the laws became worse in modern times .After hunting got banned in 1972 in India , during Indira Gandhi's government , all the existing imported fire arms in the country belonging to civilians ( namely the firearms which had been brought into the country prior to 1947 ) started getting confiscated by the authorities . Then , in 1986 , it was formally put into legislation that imported fire arms are banned there . I lived in India until 1970 , before l got conscripted into the Bangladesh Mukti Bahini for the Bangladesh Liberation War of 1971.
I have been living in Bangladesh since 1972 . In Bangladesh , the only calibres for which fire arms and ammunition are commercially imported are : .22 Long Rifle , .22 Winchester magnum rim fire , 12 calibre / bore ( All varieties ) , .32 ACP and .32 Smith & Wesson . However , civilians can own any up to 6 fire arms and from a legal point of view they can own any calibre of rifle or hand gun which they like ( except .303 British or 9 mm Parabellum . )
So , many hunters do own fire arms of calibres which are not commercially imported in Bangladesh . Let us use a .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre as an example. If someone wishes to own a .375 Holland & Holland calibre Winchester Model 70 bolt rifle , then they can go to a foreign country , purchase it and bring it back to Bangladesh after applying for a license for it , along with 250 cartridges for it . If they want ammunition for it , them they have to either go abroad , purchase the .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre cartridges ( or ammunition components if you reload ) and bring it back into the country . Or , if they have friends or family living abroad who come to visit them in Bangladesh , they can make their friends / family members bring cartridges / re loading components for them .
On every single trip into the country , you can bring back 250 cartridges ( with the 1st 100 being duty free . ) This is how people like @Kawshik Rahman or @Captain Nwz keep themselves stocked up with ammunition. Kawshik owns a Brno zkk 600 bolt rifle , chambered in 7 × 57 mm Mauser . Captain Newaz owns a .458 Winchester magnum calibre Winchester Model 70 Safari Express bolt rifle . I do not travel abroad consistently ( maybe once a year. Maybe once in 2 years . ) and l have no family members or friends living in foreign countries who regularly make a habit of coming to Bangladesh . Thus , l learnt to make do with what is locally imported .View attachment 326627 View attachment 326628 View attachment 326629

Alongside my old Belgian shot gun , l also own a German Wischo semi automatic 12 calibre / bore shot gun and a .22 Long Rifle calibre Austrian semi automatic rifle . Brenekk slugs ( all varieties ) are imported into Bangladesh and l do use them ( Brenekke Black Magic ) in my semi automatic payment shot gun . I , however do not use Brenekke slugs in my old Belgian shot gun , as it was made in 1959 and l do not wish to cause any strain on it . In the Belgian shot gun , l use hand loaded spherical ball cartridges , with the spherical ball being 16 calibre / bore so as to easily allow it to pass through the full choked barrel of my Belgian side by side shot gun . In 2023 , Bangladesh Shooting Federation will start importing fire arms and ammunition of the following calibres : .30-06 Springfield , .45 Automatic Colt Pistol , and 20 calibre / bore . I plan to purchase a .30-06 Springfield calibre Winchester Model 70 bolt rifle then .
We do live in a 3rd world country after all . However , l consider myself lucky that compared to other Asian countries like India ( where no imported fire arms are allowed ) or China , South Korea , Cambodia or Vietnam ( where no fire arms are allowed at all . ) , at least fire arms laws are comparatively generous .
They started importing the .22 Winchester magnum rim fire in 2015. They will start importing the .30-06 Springfield from 2023 . I believe that this is at the very least , a step in the right direction , because the different varieties of calibres for which fire arms and ammunition are being imported into Bangladesh are slowly increasing .
Fortunately , our current government body consists of many pro gun and pro hunting individuals , so l am hopeful.
I hope that this answers all your questions.

Regarding the .458 Winchester magnum , 2 people can disagree about something , but they can both be right. Your research leads you to believe that all the problems of the .458 Winchester magnum are gone .
Mine leads me to believe , that at any rate , .458 Winchester magnum is a calibre for which ammunition has a more definite shelf life compared to other calibres.

Poton
It is disheartening to hear such laws are in place in your country. This is especially true for a gentleman like yourself that has such a passion for hunting and firearms.
Your SEMI auto 22 brings back fond memories of shooting with my father who owned the same weapon and passed it onto me. I had hoped to pass it onto my son but the laws in OZ changed and we had to hand our semi AUTOS in. Your 22 is a Voere model 215 from memory, you can't mistake the ugly magazine housing. They had an awful trigger but were very accurate. My father and I spent many hours shooting a cans and targets with that rifle.

Thank you for rekindling the memories Ponton.
Cheers friend
Bob Nelson

 

[Ray B]

the laws in OZ changed and we had to hand our semi AUTOS in. /QUOTE]



And you actually DID?

 

[Ray B]

And you actually DID?

 

[Major Khan]

Poton
It is disheartening to hear such laws are in place in your country. This is especially true for a gentleman like yourself that has such a passion for hunting and firearms.
Your SEMI auto 22 brings back fond memories of shooting with my father who owned the same weapon and passed it onto me. I had hoped to pass it onto my son but the laws in OZ changed and we had to hand our semi AUTOS in. Your 22 is a Voere model 215 from memory, you can't mistake the ugly magazine housing. They had an awful trigger but were very accurate. My father and I spent many hours shooting a cans and targets with that rifle.

Thank you for rekindling the memories Ponton.
Cheers friend
Bob Nelson

I see that your father and l have similar tastes , Bob . Good man , he was. I purchased mine in 1996 from Amin Arms . Here is a close up of the markings on the rifle . Your identification is pin point accurate . It is a Voere rifle and is dastardly accurate. I use it for shooting hares or pigeons on bait , if l am looking for more of a challenge instead of using my Belgian shot gun and no. 6 cartridges.
I suspect that the laws in Australia were changed after the Port Arthur incident ?
Your son would have loved this rifle as a 1st rifle . It is a real shame that the police made law abiding fire arms owners suffer for what a sick individual did .
The problem about countries with an unwritten constipation , is that law makers can change the law very easily . In countries with a written constitution , like America , fortunately people's rights are protected . But no reason to fret . Someday , you can let your son use your beautiful .303 British calibre Lee Enfield action sporterized piece . That is 1 beautiful rifle which you possess , Bob . When l visited Perth in 2016 to visit my Australian friends , l noticed that .303 British and .308 Winchester are extremely popular calibres in the land down under . I have not seen too many .30-06 Springfield calibre rifles in Australia , though.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@major Kahn the same can be said about Canada or atleast the east coast of it. The smle lee endfield is perhaps the most common firearm around. Closely followed by the model 94 Winchester.

 

[Major Khan]

@major Kahn the same can be said about Canada or atleast the east coast of it. The smle lee endfield is perhaps the most common firearm around. Closely followed by the model 94 Winchester.

All common wealth countries , l see , Skinnersblade . The Winchester Model 1994 in .30-30 Winchester is a mighty fine rifle . I had a client who helped us cull a massive group of wild boars by using his .30-30 Winchester calibre Model 1894 lever rifle . He could work that lever extremely fast ! 29 boars fell to that rifle in a single day . I will write about that incident too some day .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I see that your father and l have similar tastes , Bob . Good man , he was. I purchased mine in 1996 from Amin Arms . Here is a close up of the markings on the rifle . Your identification is pin point accurate . It is a Voere rifle and is dastardly accurate. I use it for shooting hares or pigeons on bait , if l am looking for more of a challenge instead of using my Belgian shot gun and no. 6 cartridges.
I suspect that the laws in Australia were changed after the Port Arthur incident ?
Your son would have loved this rifle as a 1st rifle . It is a real shame that the police made law abiding fire arms owners suffer for what a sick individual did .
The problem about countries with an unwritten constipation , is that law makers can change the law very easily . In countries with a written constitution , like America , fortunately people's rights are protected . But no reason to fret . Someday , you can let your son use your beautiful .303 British calibre Lee Enfield action sporterized piece . That is 1 beautiful rifle which you possess , Bob . When l visited Perth in 2016 to visit my Australian friends , l noticed that .303 British and .308 Winchester are extremely popular calibres in the land down under . I have not seen too many .30-06 Springfield calibre rifles in Australia , though.
View attachment 326860

Friend Ponton.
The sporterised SMLE I posted had been converted to 444 Marlin for use as my pig and sambar rifle. I have already given my son a nice sporterised No4 SMLE that is rebarreled to my cartridge the 25/303 Epps Newton improved. It shoots the 100gn Remington core locks at 3,300fps into less than 1moa. The picture of the No4 I posted has an interesting history.
It was sold to England by savage under the lend lease program. Later it went to Pakistan and was modified by having the trigger moved from the trigger guard to a hung trigger attached to the but socket and reserial numbered and c changed to No4 Mark 2. It ended up in Australia some time in the late 1960's and was rebarreled to 25/303 by sportco.
The rifle my son really wants is my full custom 1885 lowall 22K Hornet with exhibition grade walnut and meopta scope.
Cheers my friend
Always a pleasure reading your posts.
Bob Nelson

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I see that your father and l have similar tastes , Bob . Good man , he was. I purchased mine in 1996 from Amin Arms . Here is a close up of the markings on the rifle . Your identification is pin point accurate . It is a Voere rifle and is dastardly accurate. I use it for shooting hares or pigeons on bait , if l am looking for more of a challenge instead of using my Belgian shot gun and no. 6 cartridges.
I suspect that the laws in Australia were changed after the Port Arthur incident ?
Your son would have loved this rifle as a 1st rifle . It is a real shame that the police made law abiding fire arms owners suffer for what a sick individual did .
The problem about countries with an unwritten constipation , is that law makers can change the law very easily . In countries with a written constitution , like America , fortunately people's rights are protected . But no reason to fret . Someday , you can let your son use your beautiful .303 British calibre Lee Enfield action sporterized piece . That is 1 beautiful rifle which you possess , Bob . When l visited Perth in 2016 to visit my Australian friends , l noticed that .303 British and .308 Winchester are extremely popular calibres in the land down under . I have not seen too many .30-06 Springfield calibre rifles in Australia , though.
View attachment 326860

Friend Ponton
Dad got his Voere in the mid 1960's while he was an armourer in the RAAF from a friend. I lost count of how many rabbits that rifle killed along with foxes and the occasional small goat or pig
Bob