458 Win vs 460 Weatherby

[Kevin375]

I had the opportunity to shoot the .460 Weatherby magnum with an old Weatherby Mark V that had the first generation of muzzle brake. It is not possible to take it off like the new generation of Accubrake, because many little holes are drilled directly in the muzzle.

I'm not sure if it's a real Mag-Na-Port but anyway, it tamed very well this caliber.

I was using handloaded ammunitions and 500 gr bullets were launched at 780 m/s (2560 f/s), that is already quite substantial.
I don't think the rifle kicked more than my CZ 550 in .416 Rigby. But the blast and the noise from the muzzle brake were horrible and it reminds me when I used the loaner .30-378 Weatherby magnum with its Accubrake, and how people around were scaried by its noise.
When I shot my kudu, I'm still still seeing my PH putting is hand on his right ear that was hurting him.

I don't like muzzle brake and I think it's not good for the team while hunting.

A .460 Weatherby magnum in a Weatherby Mark V without a muzzle brake is definitely not for everyone, and I remember what Kevin Robertson said about this caliber in a podcast. The accuracy challenge between a scoped .460 Weatherby magnum and a 9 mm luger as well as the Italian hunter who had terrible flinches before squeezing the trigger and who completely missed an elephant with a body shot at shot distance.
I spoke with a man who had an A-Square Hannibal in .460 Weatherby magnum, and because of its heavier weight and also stock design, the recoil was more manageable but still strong he said.
In the past, I dreamed about this caliber and I wanted to build a custom rifle on a CZ550 action with a stock like the A-Square's but I think it was a bit too much for me at the end.

I decided to go with the .458 Lott and it's more than enough for me. If one day, I want something more powerfull, I'd go to the .500 Jeffery.

 

[TTundra]

A 458 with a premium bullet will exit most angles on a buff. A 460 with the proper bullet (otherwise it blows up) will certainly exit and to what benefit? Most of the energy is going out the other side. We don't kill with energy anyway. These aren't laser beams. We kill with blood loss, vitals destruction and skeletal structure breakdown. There isn't much benefit to all of the energy on paper increasing beyond 458 Lott levels. There are lots of downsides...noise/concussion to everyone around you, excessive recoil with no real benefits, cumulative effects of recoil (no one is exempt from that), etc. Bullet failure is much more of a problem at those velocities. It's still about bullet placement and the bullet penetrating to vitals, ideally with an exit to improve rapid blood loss.

While I agree the 460 is not for everyone, the versatility of it is unmatched in the 458 arena.
I think the 'will certainly exit is a stretch. Below a Hornady DGX Bonded from my above buffalo. Did not exit, worked flawlessly, and this at 2500 fps.
Again, the recoil is not for everyone, but I've shot much worse in lighter calibers.

I equate the 460 to be more of a light stopping rifle, below the big 500s. I've shot 505 gibbs and 500 jefferys again that just are painful, while others more pleasant. This is all due to stock design and fitment. A hunter wanting to take on DG should do as the pros all do and get fitted to a rifle. There's a reason why every PRS, ELR, XLR, and shotgun pro all use custom stocks. I never knew how much a difference until I tried the A2 Coil Check stock that ended up being a great fit for me.
I'm also 6'4" and don't fall into 'normal' stock dimensions.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

This very short video is of @mitch4570 shooting his new to him .458 Lott CZ with 500 gr bullets at 2300 fps. These were is first shots taken after two shot on a standing bench. The difference in felt recoil in all but the perfect standing bench position to shooting offhand is huge! Notice how well he shoots this rifle.

FYI, I have a 450 Rigby that launchs the same projectiles at over 2400 fps. There is a large difference in recoil between these two rifles. Compared to them, my .458 Win Heym double and bolt action rifles shooting 500 grs at 2150 fps are pussycats to shoot.

 

[Axle2010]

While I don't agree with all the stories of massive recoil from the Mark V everything you hear about the muzzle blast is dead on. Muzzle blast is flat out insane, worse I've ever heard. My first shot i was excited and forgot my ear plugs in my pocket and I wasn't sure if it had ruptured my left eardrum or not. I've only taken a few shots with mine since I dont have a scope or dot on it yet but the shots I did take didn't bother my shoulder a bit and I believe the Mark V is only 8.5-9 lbs.

 

[Safari Dave]

The factory muzzle break that came on the older Mark V's .460s did a great job of taming recoil.

But, the noise and blast is, absolutely, unbearable.


In the right rifle, I would consider a .460 to be a great "stopping rifle." (Better than a .458 Lott).

Unfortunately, I don't think the cartridge has ever chambered in the "right" rifle.


There are very few cartridges that generate over 7,500 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy...

 

[grand veneur]

The factory muzzle break that came on the older Mark V's .460s did a great job of taming recoil.

But, the noise and blast is, absolutely, unbearable.


In the right rifle, I would consider a .460 to be a great "stopping rifle." (Better than a .458 Lott).

Unfortunately, I don't think the cartridge has ever chambered in the "right" rifle.


There are very few cartridges that generate over 7,500 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy...

You can have one built or buy an used one, what I did about thirty years ago by buying a custom rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum built 1974 and without any recoil reducing devices.

 

[BeeMaa]

The most common saying about the 460WBY is that it kills on both ends.

At a minimum, I’d want an A-Square Coil Check stock for the weight and broad butt pad area with a soft pad installed. I’d want the weight around 9.5 lbs with a 22-24” barrel and a red dot optic to prevent any chance of scope cut. Of course there would be no muzzle brake.

However, I’m not sure this rifle exists. And my ability to shoot/control such a weapon remains but a dream. I’ll stay in my lane and leave the stopping rifles to the professionals.

 

[Green Chile]

Many PHs can shoot whatever they would like caliber wise but how many choose the 460? I know it was popular among the Portuguese PHs but besides that, I've never seen one used by a pro. Energy is a part of the equation but energy isn't what kills DG.

If you want the respect of your PH on DG, show up with a used rifle in something like a 375, 404, 416...handle your gun safely and confidently from the moment you take it out of the case...settle in quickly on the test target...and walk quietly on stalks. That's what really matters in the field.

 

[Raven]

You can have one built or buy an used one, what I did about thirty years ago by buying a custom rifle caliber 460 Weatherby Magnum built 1974 and without any recoil reducing devices.

Did you leave the rifle as is or did you customize it?

 

[grand veneur]

Did you leave the rifle as is or did you customize it?

The rifle was built with a Brevex Magnum Mauser action and remained as it was originally. I had to change the stock two times in the last thirty years because it cracked over the time and after many shots.

 

[TTundra]

The most common saying about the 460WBY is that it kills on both ends.

At a minimum, I’d want an A-Square Coil Check stock for the weight and broad butt pad area with a soft pad installed. I’d want the weight around 9.5 lbs with a 22-24” barrel and a red dot optic to prevent any chance of scope cut. Of course there would be no muzzle brake.

However, I’m not sure this rifle exists. And my ability to shoot/control such a weapon remains but a dream. I’ll stay in my lane and leave the stopping rifles to the professionals.

It will soon enough! 10.5 pounds with scope.
Will be adding a SRO and custom mount. Weight should be about or just under 10 lbs.

23" barrel. Coil check. And extremely shootable. My 200lb brother also shoots it without issue and he's a 5.56 guy...

 

[ftrovato]

I think everyone that shoots larger to large bore rifles should invest in learning to reload their own ammo for a multitude of reasons.

Powder and bullet weight variations can make a world of difference and make the diameter of bullet your considering more important than the cartridge you choose.

With all of that, there is no replacement for controlled round feed on a dangerous game bolt action.
To me, this is much more important than what cartridge I choose!

 

[grand veneur]

Original rifle

Second stock

The last one

 

[grand veneur]

I think everyone that shoots larger to large bore rifles should invest in learning to reload their own ammo for a multitude of reasons.

Powder and bullet weight variations can make a world of difference and make the diameter of bullet your considering more important than the cartridge you choose.

With all of that, there is no replacement for controlled round feed on a dangerous game bolt action.
To me, this is much more important than what cartridge I choose!

Reloading the cartridge 460 Weatherby Magnum is necessary in all cases, primarily for cost reasons so that you can train as often as possible, but also to make loads suitable for the tropics. Initially I tried hunting with original Weatherby ammunition from the seventies. That was barely possible. In Africa I had clear signs of overpressure with problems to open the action after shooting. In the meantime the factory loads have been reduced somewhat and are usable. I also load my cartridges 460 Weatherby Magnum at this level.

 

[Northern Shooter]

So looking at the Weatherby Website, the Mark V Deluxe in 460 Weatherby only weights 8.25lbs.
https://weatherby.com/store/mark-v-deluxe/#techInfo

Google tells me that a 500 gr 460 WB cartridge uses 124.6 grains of powder to achieve 2,600 fps.

When you punch in those numbers into the recoil calculator you are left with a healthy 142.16 ft-lbs of energy.

It would have to be a 18.0lb rifle to match the 65 ft-lbs of the 458 WM.

 

[ftrovato]

So looking at the Weatherby Website, the Mark V Deluxe in 460 Weatherby only weights 8.25lbs.
https://weatherby.com/store/mark-v-deluxe/#techInfo

Google tells me that a 500 gr 460 WB cartridge uses 124.6 grains of powder to achieve 2,600 fps.

When you punch in those numbers into the recoil calculator you are left with a healthy 142.16 ft-lbs of energy.

It would have to be a 18.0lb rifle to match the 65 ft-lbs of the 458 WM.

Whatever they weigh, I'm told they used to be beyond punishing to shoot!

I heard that at some point Weatherby backed down on the powder/velocity in their factory ammo.

Some said it was because of recoil & pressure, others said it was to keep the bullet driving straight once it enters the animal.

DISCLAIMER: This is all third person info...

 

[Jim Golden]

I shoot a sub 11lb 460 weatherby quite often. No brake on mine, 23" barrel.

It's well stated here and in Pierre Van Dert Walt's book the issue with the 460 weatherby is the brake.

It is not for the recoil sensitive, but in a proper fitting rifle it's an incredibly controllable and versatile cartridge.

I've shot numerous lighter caliber rifles in ill fitting stocks that I put down after 2 shots because the pain inflicted. Humorous that one was a Ruger 77 Hawkeye in 9.3x62...poor fit for me and Id gladly shoot 20 rounds of my 460 over 2 more in that rifle.

The "folklore" of the terrible 460 is relegated to the hideous brake, the mark V action, and shooters not capable of wielding the recoil.

View attachment 692182

Is that an A-Square Hannibal? Looks like a Model 1917 action, pistol grip is sharp like a Coil-Chek, and the butt looks kind of big. I'm building a .460 right now that will be a Hannibal clone. Got a Coil-Chek stock from MPI stocks and have a 16 ounce and 12 ounce mercury recoil reducer in the stock. It'll be open sights only...at least that's my current plan...but I am drilling and tapping and machining Talley bases for a scope. I've got New England open sights for it. I built a .375 Weatherby just like it and it's an absolute pussycat to shoot. Felt recoil is way less than my Remington .375 H&H or my .338. It's my favorite rifle and I was going to do a one gun safari with it. But if I get the .460 done in time, I might bring it too. Could bring a 30-06 along as well. Anyway, nice looking rifle!

 

[TTundra]

Only that light due to the brake being mandatory from Weatherby. Real world recoil energy is 90ish ft lbs. Unless you do prefer the masochist way...

 

[TTundra]

Is that an A-Square Hannibal? Looks like a Model 1917 action, pistol grip is sharp like a Coil-Chek, and the butt looks kind of big. I'm building a .460 right now that will be a Hannibal clone. Got a Coil-Chek stock from MPI stocks and have a 16 ounce and 12 ounce mercury recoil reducer in the stock. It'll be open sights only...at least that's my current plan...but I am drilling and tapping and machining Talley bases for a scope. I've got New England open sights for it. I built a .375 Weatherby just like it and it's an absolute pussycat to shoot. Felt recoil is way less than my Remington .375 H&H or my .338. It's my favorite rifle and I was going to do a one gun safari with it. But if I get the .460 done in time, I might bring it too. Could bring a 30-06 along as well. Anyway, nice looking rifle!

Thank you. Yes, it's an A-Square Hannibal. Asquare used a now discontinued 5X(?) pachmayr recoil pad. The butt is much larger than anything else out there. Sadly if only dries out, it's a custom job to fix but they do work great. It has been a hammer on game and extremely easy to shoot.

 

[Jim Golden]

Limbsaver and KickEez both make pads big enough for the Coil-Chek if you need a new one.