A Death Of Ethics: Is “Hunting” Destroying Itself?

Personally I don’t care how a coyote or wolf meets its end.

They are a shoot on sight animal to me due to the damage they do to cattle and sheep. If I’m hunting I’ll follow the laws. If I’m involved in livestock production I’ll do what is best for the animal crop in my care.
Makes perfect sense, but hunting and pest control are not exactly the same thing. Even most of those that are rabidly opposed to hunting and trapping aren't too concerned about killing rats and mice.

Those that are opposed to killing wolves under any circumstances won't care about what range you shoot them at. The Disney School of Wildlife Management has no.requirement of common sense.
 
Using the “I do it because it’s legal” is a very one dimensional and counterproductive argument, in my humble opinion.

It‘s basically an invitation to the antis to pressurize the government to make any particular forms of hunting illegal.

Rather, hunting should be defended on moral/environmental and socio-economical grounds.

All animals (even problem animals/predators/livestock killers) should be hunted with the objective of ending their lives as quickly and cleanly as possible.

Terming anything as a “Killing Contest” is a mark of crass tastelessness on the part of the hunter.

Now, on the other hand… It’s abundantly clear to me that this Mr. Sutton fellow is a pompous self righteous coarse fool who thinks that he is entitled to talk about trophy hunting without actually knowing anything in-depth about it. In my humble experience, “Hunters” like him are the true threat to hunting. Just because he practices one form of hunting, he thinks that he has a right to condemn hunting practices which are conducted by other hunters.

When he doesn’t realize that his boot licking of the anti hunting brigade (regardless of how eloquently it‘s written) will do him no good in the long run. Those who are seeking to ban hunting of the lion in Africa today, will seek to ban the hunting of the whitetail deer in the USA tomorrow.

Photographic safaris never can or will replace hunting safaris. Let me ask you all something. When a tourist has come to Africa (for instance) and taken his nice photograph of a lion, will he ever return to Africa again ? No, because he has taken his photograph and next year, he will spend his money elsewhere. A hunter though, will keep returning to the forests to hunt wild game on a relatively consistent frequency. Because hunting is his food for the soul. And he will keep paying for it. He is the better long term consumer of wildlife. Ergo, he is the reason why wildlife must exist.

One of these days, I also have a bone to pick with whatever muttonhead thought up the name “Trophy Hunting“. It’s such a one dimensional & shallow title. The name infers that we shoot a lion (for instance) solely for the purposes of lopping it’s head off to mount on our walls or skinning his hide to adorn our floors while the rest of the animal lies rotting… whereas nothing could be further from the truth. Big game hunting is so much more than that. As a matter of fact, I’ve hunted several lions over the years (to date) & I only retained the hide from the first male.

The problem with hunters is we're loud and proud as an interest group. Explaining to a non-hunter we kill elephants and lions is not a good entry. The best testimony is to be a good human and have the public over for a dinner of turkey and venison. When the uninformed public trusts your ethics personally, then you can explain how sport hunting of big game is true conservation. They won't cross that bridge until they believe in you. Once they believe in your ethics, you can explain how sport hunting and trophy hunting is saving species, economies, and lives. It has to start with a bowl of turkey chili that you harvested for clean living off your own land.
 
The problem with hunters is we're loud and proud as an interest group. Explaining to a non-hunter we kill elephants and lions is not a good entry. The best testimony is to be a good human and have the public over for a dinner of turkey and venison. When the uninformed public trusts your ethics personally, then you can explain how sport hunting of big game is true conservation. They won't cross that bridge until they believe in you. Once they believe in your ethics, you can explain how sport hunting and trophy hunting is saving species, economies, and lives. It has to start with a bowl of turkey chili that you harvested for clean living off your own land.
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. It starts with something small and relatable to the common masses.
 
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. It starts with something small and relatable to the common masses.

I would think in your area of the world, it is especially hard to convince people that hunting is conservation. You're surrounded by Hindus, and your nation is a high-population muslim country. By those circumstances, policy has been to touch nothing, harvest nothing, out of necessity. Each of us needs to meet our neighbors at their level of understanding and build trust while we expand minds.
 
Makes perfect sense, but hunting and pest control are not exactly the same thing. Even most of those that are rabidly opposed to hunting and trapping aren't too concerned about killing rats and mice.

Those that are opposed to killing wolves under any circumstances won't care about what range you shoot them at. The Disney School of Wildlife Management has no.requirement of common sense.

If they love them so much they should bear the cost of those worthless critters. Not only that they should take them home and let them live in their apartments with them.
 
If they love them so much they should bear the cost of those worthless critters. Not only that they should take them home and let them live in their apartments with them.
Maybe you haven't heard, Walt Disney taught us that animals all love each other and live forever unless some evil human kills them. "Run Bambi! Man is in the forest!"
 
I would think in your area of the world, it is especially hard to convince people that hunting is conservation. You're surrounded by Hindus, and your nation is a high-population muslim country. By those circumstances, policy has been to touch nothing, harvest nothing, out of necessity. Each of us needs to meet our neighbors at their level of understanding and build trust while we expand minds.
It's a little bit more complex than that. You see... bird hunting and (to a lesser extent) deer hunting, rabbit hunting & boar hunting are pretty common pastimes in the rural parts of our country. Venison and wild game meat is considered a delicacy at the family meal tables of most rural Bengalis. Being a country of 700 rivers, waterfowl hunting is an almost universally popular hobby in rural areas. As a matter of fact, from October to April... you'll be hard-pressed to find a rural home where pin tails or whistling teals or bar headed geese or greylag geese AREN'T eaten.

Nine out of ten Bengalis view hunting (and fishing) to be a positive thing.
BUT
This only extends to game animals which are typically seen as conventional tablefare (upland birds, waterfowl, deer, rabbits, buffalo, nilgai, boars & the like).

The problem begins when you try to convince them that "Trophy Hunting" is actually a good thing. For instance, when I was Chief Conservator Of Forests of Bangladesh (and later a Member of Parliament for two consecutive terms)... I brought up the proposal that we should re-legalize the hunting of Royal Bengal tigers in order to reduce human-wildlife conflict in the rural areas outlying the Sundarbans mangrove forests (where an average of 52 human beings are killed by Royal Bengal tigers per year)... my colleagues at the Ministry of Forests (even my staunchest supporters) flatly told me that I would be committing career suicide by even bringing this proposal up. It didn't matter that the population of Royal Bengal tigers inhabiting the Sundarbans is currently at an all-time high (far exceeding the terrain's L.C.C or Land Carrying Capacity). I was simply told that legalizing Royal Bengal tiger hunting was a complete no-go. From a hunter/conservationist's perspective, this is very tragic. But from a politician's perspective... I can totally understand why my colleagues stopped me. They arguably saved my career and allowed me to retire peacefully.

In other words, let me put it simply for you: Nine out of ten Bengalis would view hunting a Cape buffalo in Africa as a good thing (because it's a game animal typically associated with tablefare). Two out of those ten would view hunting a lion in Africa as a good thing (regardless of how much lion hunting can have an overall positive effect for wildlife conservation). I was however, recently able to get a very talented group of young university students (while conducting a lecture on sustainable wildlife management at Rangpur University) to view the trophy hunting of African lions in a much more positive light... after I showed them slides of the meat harvested from a hunted African lion being distributed amongst local rural African communities. I explained that in Africa... absolutely nothing goes to waste. Perhaps, we would have better success in inciting relatability amongst the common Bengali masses if we changed name "Trophy Hunting" to "Management Hunting" (or something along those lines).

In regards to being surrounded by Hindus, this is also not as clear cut an issue as people think. The Hindus living in Bangladesh for generations are more or less okay with hunting (quite a few even hunt regularly themselves). Most of them will eat meat (except for beef). The problem is the Hindus living in India (which surrounds Bangladesh on three sides). They view Bangladesh as a neocolonialistic possession of theirs and have been frequently trying to get all forms of hunting (as well as firearms ownership) banned in Bangladesh.

Our previous government (who was overthrown on 5th August of this year) were bootlickers to the Indians because the Indian government basically installed them here so that they can run Bangladesh like an Indian colony. Our previous government were thus quite restrictive regarding hunting & firearms (although they couldn't afford to outright ban hunting & firearms ownership because it would incite a very vocal discontent amongst rural Bengalis). After our new government (who basically hate the current Indian BJP government for ruining our country in the last 16 years) came to power, they relaxed hunting & firearms ownership laws to more reasonable degrees. Because it's an army backed government. And in Bangladesh, nine out of ten army officers view hunting & firearms ownership as a good thing.

We are still a long way from making the common Bengali unde that hunting ten Royal Bengal tigers a year (in order to save a thousand) is a good thing. But never say never.

I covered many of these points in Chapter VIII & Chapter X of my autobiography. Not trying to sell books or do product promotion, but it would help you understand this topic in a little more fleshed out manner.
 
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The problem with hunters is we're loud and proud as an interest group. Explaining to a non-hunter we kill elephants and lions is not a good entry. The best testimony is to be a good human and have the public over for a dinner of turkey and venison. When the uninformed public trusts your ethics personally, then you can explain how sport hunting of big game is true conservation. They won't cross that bridge until they believe in you. Once they believe in your ethics, you can explain how sport hunting and trophy hunting is saving species, economies, and lives. It has to start with a bowl of turkey chili that you harvested for clean living off your own land.
This is exactly right. It's one of the reasons why I think Meateater/Steven Rinella has been so successful as a representative for hunters.
 

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idjeffp wrote on Jon R15's profile.
Hi Jon,
I saw your post for the .500 NE cases. Are these all brass or are they nickel plated? Hard for me to tell... sorry.
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1200 for the 375 barrel and accessories?
 
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