A Death Of Ethics: Is “Hunting” Destroying Itself?

[LivingTheDream]

This is a rly big crux of what I'm saying. If inhumane methods of killing predators continue to be allowed, the hammer will be brought down.

What the guy did wasn't hunting. It has nothing to do with our sport.

Again, there are tons of inhumane examples out there that have nothing to do with hunting. Just because something dies doesn't make it hunting, and to link the two is pushing anti-hunting propaganda.

 

[BryceM]

"None of this is to decry hunting by the way...."

As anyone can clearly see, the rest of the article clearly supports this viewpoint, from the 2nd paragraph.

The basic premise of this writeup could have easily been shared (and more easily understood) in a half-dozen paragraphs. The OP is entitled to his/her opinion, and, like the rest of us, should endeavor to conduct himself to the highest of his own ethical standards.

 

[Philip Glass]

I can't get through the whole thing but here is the problem: There is a difference between hunting and culling or predator control. There is a different set of ethics. Most don't think about this and tend to think all killing is "hunting". For instance here in Texas coyotes are not game animals so there are no regulations on their take. As a sheep rancher dealing with historically high coyote numbers I am not going to leave anything to chance when after a coyote. I will trap, snare, shoot, hunt with thermals, hunt from a helicopter, run over them with a truck (if I had the chance) and any other means available to me to kill those predators and keep them out of my sheep. This would include a female with pups. They all have to go. This would be a far cry from how I would hunt deer, turkey, or most any kind of game animal.
We have a contingent of mostly young outdoors folks who are wish washy on standing up for all hunting. They like to criticize methods they do not employ. Gun versus bow, high fence versus low fence, etc. None of us would condone the guys actions who took the wolf to a bar but we have bad apples like any other group.
As I like to say we can hang together or hang separately.

 

[HankBuck]

The Sambar are no problem as they are browsers, and if anything are benefical as they eat the woody weeds- plus they are good eating.
The Kangaroos being native and given they directly compete with the cattle are a much bigger problem. There are government licenced hunters that can cull the roos. We had 450 taken off one property last year and you can hardly notice the difference, there are still 1,000s. And this gets to the point of public perception. Currently globally there is a campaign against all the fooball boot manufactures to stop using K-Leather (Kangaroo Leather) Which is a totally sustainable natural product and replace it with a synthetic hydrocarbon based inferior alternative - logic has nothing to do with it, it is all emotional. If we don't recognise and accept that emotional public campaigns could be the demise of our sport then we are naive. We must not condone any inhumane actions if we want our sport to continue.
After that rant. Here is how dingoes are controlled.

In my state Dingoes are protected, but wild dogs are vermin.

@BlueFlyer: Kangaroos are “Cute” - so that’s why people want them protected….like how a really pretty Woman can get away with Bad Behavior. I sure hope they don’t discontinue using kangaroo leather - it’s a good product, light weight leather that’s soft & strong….the few boots that I’ve had made from kangaroo leather were very comfortable.

 

[tigris115]

What the guy did wasn't hunting. It has nothing to do with our sport.

Again, there are tons of inhumane examples out there that have nothing to do with hunting. Just because something dies doesn't make it hunting, and to link the two is pushing anti-hunting propaganda.

I know that but what else I know is that a lot of people are not gonna make a difference.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

So, the reason that I made this thread was that, I feel that a lot of people just have a massive seething hatred for wolves and other predators.

Especially on the internet, I've seen a lot of people make comments about how wolves are murdering everything and how they need to be made extinct and I'm like "Damn bro, cool story ig"

Obviously I have no real idea of what the culture out west is as I'm not from there and the most I went was to dig up some dinosaur cones with school but I do feel that the attitude people have against wolves can be a little ridiculous.

"No real idea" is right. No one who hunts has advocated the extinction of the wolves (or other large predators. People who do live or hunt in the West do want the numbers managed, just like other species. Those, and I suspect your one of them, that argue against killing any large animal "because they only kill the old and the sick" are living in a world of naive delusion. We know that uncontrolled numbers of wolves or other predators do have a negative effect on the populations of prey species. This results in more restrictive hunting regulations and reduced opportunities for hunters.

Most Western hunters are very suspicious of reintroducing large predators whether that be wolves, grizzly bears, mountain lions, whatever, because the non hunting public then wants to see them fully protected. Bad news for anyone that hunts or ranches in the effected areas.

 

[tigris115]

Most Western hunters are very suspicious of reintroducing large predators whether that be wolves, grizzly bears, mountain lions, whatever, because the non hunting public then wants to see them fully protected. Bad news for anyone that hunts or ranches in the effected areas.

Nah I totally think that, even if given protections, all large predators should be hunted as game animals based on quotas that, in of themselves, are based on the facts from field scientists and zoologists.

My thing was more that, if inhumane practices aren't immediately canned, you'll basically be loading the gun the antis will use to bring Western hunting to the back of the shed full stop.

It's a very baby and the bathwater thing if that makes sense

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Nah I totally think that, even if given protections, all large predators should be hunted as game animals based on quotas that, in of themselves, are based on the facts from field scientists and zoologists.

My thing was more that, if inhumane practices aren't immediately canned, you'll basically be loading the gun the antis will use to bring Western hunting to the back of the shed full stop.

It's a very baby and the bathwater thing if that makes sense

@tigris115: Just to confirm, do you hunt, or have you ever hunted?

Safe hunting

 

[BryceM]

Hunting is not destroying itself, but some people of the fringes of it try to cause problems once in a while.

 

[tigris115]

@tigris115: Just to confirm, do you hunt, or have you ever hunted?

Safe hunting

No but I see no reason that such a fact prevents me from at least giving a fair look at certain hunting practices. However, I will give the giant disclaimer that I make some mistakes. Such is life ig

Personally, I'd love to some day take up hunting, especially duck hunting

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Nah I totally think that, even if given protections, all large predators should be hunted as game animals based on quotas that, in of themselves, are based on the facts from field scientists and zoologists.

My thing was more that, if inhumane practices aren't immediately canned, you'll basically be loading the gun the antis will use to bring Western hunting to the back of the shed full stop.

It's a very baby and the bathwater thing if that makes sense

Which "inhumane practices" are you referring to? Things like running coyotes down with snowmobiles are not actual hunting techniques, not used by hunters and are already illegal. Using fish hooks on cables to trap and kill litters of wolf pups is also illegal and hasn't been used for many years. The anti hunters claim these things are being done, but telling the truth is not something the antis practice regularly.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

No but I see no reason that such a fact prevents me from at least giving a fair look at certain hunting practices. However, I will give the giant disclaimer that I make some mistakes. Such is life ig

Personally, I'd love to some day take up hunting, especially duck hunting

We all have opinions. They are better received when speaking from experience. Are you a member of any Conservation organization or do you actively participate in any Conservation practices?

 

[HankBuck]

No but I see no reason that such a fact prevents me from at least giving a fair look at certain hunting practices. However, I will give the giant disclaimer that I make some mistakes. Such is life ig

Personally, I'd love to some day take up hunting, especially duck hunting

@tigris115: You don’t Hunt but you have an opinion on Hunting? And You are entitled to that. I’m Not a Doctor but I have opinions on medical treatments and I’m entitled to that. Both of Our “opinions” in these areas are equally “Worthless”

 

[tigris115]

@tigris115: You don’t Hunt but you have an opinion on Hunting? And You are entitled to that. I’m Not a Doctor but I have opinions on medical treatments and I’m entitled to that. Both of Our “opinions” in these areas are equally “Worthless”

Technically yes, not being a hunter, my opinions don't hold nearly as much weight as those of someone within the hunting community.

Tho, with your analogy, someone can still talk to non-doctors and get varying opinions on different treatments. I know I certainly did as such when trying to find different treatments.

We all have opinions. They are better received when speaking from experience. Are you a member of any Conservation organization or do you actively participate in any Conservation practices?

I am working my way towards a career in conservation through academia. I know that ain't much but it's honest work and here's hoping I'll make it big someday.

Which "inhumane practices" are you referring to? Things like running coyotes down with snowmobiles are not actual hunting techniques, not used by hunters and are already illegal. Using fish hooks on cables to trap and kill litters of wolf pups is also illegal and hasn't been used for many years. The anti hunters claim these things are being done, but telling the truth is not something the antis practice regularly.

Oh yeah trust me, if I'm ever hard on hunters, that's only because I want the practice of hunting to continue into perpetuity as a component of wildlife conservation. It's been proven time and time again that such practices, when managed properly and with the technical advisory of good zoological and conservation science, helps to boost wildlife and to protect large areas of natural habitat.

I'm extremely harsh on anti-hunters for many reasons such as blatant misinformation that can be corrected with even just an hour of trawling through Google Scholar, despicable attitudes and behavior (I saw one on Twitter literally post pictures of Amy Dickman's kids. I don't think any sane person would consider that ok), and often blatantly racist and imperialistic ideas of how wildlife should be managed (the circles of anti-hunting, especially whenever it revolves around Africa are always overtly dominated by people from the global North such as the North America and Europe with African voices often being drowned out or accused of being uncaring towards wildlife). And to top it off, most hardened antis I talked to are overtly set in their ways and just have no courtesy.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

Seeing "hunting/shooting" videos on social media that are unethical or in poor taste is an ignorant way for any intelligent person to judge the entire hunting community, or any other community (or race, gender, religion, etc.) for that matter. You appear to be someone who cares. I strongly suggest you challenge yourself to the next level. Find a good mentor that will take you hunting but go for the full experience. Enjoy the outdoors, hunt your animal, process it yourself and enjoy the excellent, organic, protein. My wife comes from a non-hunting culture. She never disapproved my passion and always enjoyed cooking the wild game I brought home. However, she will be the first to tell you her passion and understanding for wildlife and hunting went to another level after she started hunting with me.

Safe hunting

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Technically yes, not being a hunter, my opinions don't hold nearly as much weight as those of someone within the hunting community.

Tho, with your analogy, someone can still talk to non-doctors and get varying opinions on different treatments. I know I certainly did as such when trying to find different treatments.


I am working my way towards a career in conservation through academia. I know that ain't much but it's honest work and here's hoping I'll make it big someday.


Oh yeah trust me, if I'm ever hard on hunters, that's only because I want the practice of hunting to continue into perpetuity as a component of wildlife conservation. It's been proven time and time again that such practices, when managed properly and with the technical advisory of good zoological and conservation science, helps to boost wildlife and to protect large areas of natural habitat.

I'm extremely harsh on anti-hunters for many reasons such as blatant misinformation that can be corrected with even just an hour of trawling through Google Scholar, despicable attitudes and behavior (I saw one on Twitter literally post pictures of Amy Dickman's kids. I don't think any sane person would consider that ok), and often blatantly racist and imperialistic ideas of how wildlife should be managed (the circles of anti-hunting, especially whenever it revolves around Africa are always overtly dominated by people from the global North such as the North America and Europe with African voices often being drowned out or accused of being uncaring towards wildlife). And to top it off, most hardened antis I talked to are overtly set in their ways and just have no courtesy.

Okay. Sounds like you're learning.

Beware of "environmental" or "conservation minded" Academics on any subject. Many (most?) of them appear to be Vegans on the payroll of PETA. The professors in Political Science and Ethics seem to be the worst, but since most of academia is in lockstep with the liberal left (no thinking required, no dissent allowed) do not trust any of them until they show their actual agenda. I have known many of them and have found this to be largely true.

That same approach can also be useful when dealing with any new people.

 

[tigris115]

Okay. Sounds like you're learning.

Beware of "environmental" or "conservation minded" Academics on any subject. Many (most?) of them appear to be Vegans on the payroll of PETA. The professors in Political Science and Ethics seem to be the worst, but since most of academia is in lockstep with the liberal left (no thinking required, no dissent allowed) do not trust any of them until they show their actual agenda. I have known many of them and have found this to be largely true.

That same approach can also be useful when dealing with any new people.

On the contrary, I found that my professor who taught the course on human/wildlife conflict had a very good, impartial attitude, even once talking about the pragmatic use of trophy hunting in conservation.

The main takeaway we got from the class is that every idea at least deserves to be heard out because even a seemingly daft one can raise questions which can set you on the road to progress

 

[Doug Hamilton]

On the contrary, I found that my professor who taught the course on human/wildlife conflict had a very good, impartial attitude, even once talking about the pragmatic use of trophy hunting in conservation.

The main takeaway we got from the class is that every idea at least deserves to be heard out because even a seemingly daft one can raise questions which can set you on the road to progress

Sounds like you got a good one. Those that I knew were all in California. Even there, I did meet one that did big game research and did not automatically reject hunting, but that was a rare exception. Try to avoid those like Peter Singer. I never met him but I have read some of his stuff. Scary.

 

[HankBuck]

On the contrary, I found that my professor who taught the course on human/wildlife conflict had a very good, impartial attitude, even once talking about the pragmatic use of trophy hunting in conservation.

The main takeaway we got from the class is that every idea at least deserves to be heard out because even a seemingly daft one can raise questions which can set you on the road to progress

@tigris115 : your posts read more like a “spoof” — better then average spoof - but they have script or theme that’s followed…Not nasty or obnoxious but nothing truthful, sincere, or believable ——and getting redundant and boring. So liven it up a bit, add a new “plot” or introduce a new character soon

 

[Doug Hamilton]

This is a rly big crux of what I'm saying. If inhumane methods of killing predators continue to be allowed, the hammer will be brought down.

Oh Tigris...

Again you make reference to "inhumane methods of killing predators" without giving any specific examples of what these methods are. I could give you many examples of deer, hogs and many smaller animals being killed with inhumane methods. The thing is, these methods are used by farmers and other members of the agriculture community. These people are not hunters in the common usage of the word. My guess is that most predators being killed by inhumane means are being taken by ranchers.