9.3X62 for Cape Buffalo?

[Tanks]

What I find amazing in these kinds of discussions is people arguing for calibers at the margin of minimum required for a particular game. Which necessarily does not mean what is advisable, unless the shots are perfect. Firearms are cheap compared to the cost of a Safari. Why not just use enough gun? Most people plan the Safaris a year or so in advance, plenty of time to get familiar and comfortable enough with a newly acquired firearm. Not to mention it is a good excuse to expand the battery.

 

[HWL]

I did not, but I know, friends of mine shot more than a dozen of cape buffalo with the 9,3x64 Brenneke.

Without any issues.

They considered the 9,3x62 the perfect boar cartridge, but toke the 9,3x64 to Africa.

HWL

 

[bruce moulds]

I consider the brenneke adequate for body shots of reasonable quality on bovines .
assuming good bullet choice.
this means a 286 or 300 gn swift, or northfork 286 softs.
the 286 gn barnes would be good also but it is so long it uses up too much powder space.
bruce.

 

[Daga Boy]

Optics/sight options depend on application. For bush application (which is where this calibre is most at home) a 2-7 is a good choice. I have mine attached with QD mounts and I also have Express iron sights, but those are really only in case the scope gets damaged. For savanna applications a 3-9 is more versatile. 3-9 is not recommended for DG, but that really only has to do with charge situations - which is really the PH's department.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

He also used it extensively during the buffalo eradication culls . His 9.3x62 mm Mauser calibre bolt rifle was built by Dumoulin in Belgium and it had a detachable box magazine. He was fond of using Norma , Woodleigh and Ken Stewart bullets .

Yes , Major Khan, he was one of the Game ranger from the golden era where Game Rangers like Richard Harland shot more than 6000 buffaloes and many more elephants during eradicating tsetse fly operations...incredible to think they had to do it, it was their job...man, I would give an arm and a leg to had such a great job, would not even considered pension... Rhodesia/Zimbabwe had like South Africa exceptional Game Rangers in their Nature Conservation departments...

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Gert I too am a fan of the 8x68s and also a fan of the 8mm Rem. Mag. My experience indicates that the 8mm Rem. Mag. outshines the 8x68s by a margin similar to that of the 300Wby to the 300wm. My 8mm Rem Mag has a 24" barrel and I shoot 220gn SGK at about 2980 f/s with RL-22, I also shoot 200gn TSX at 3080 f/s with MRP. My 8x68s is a Blaser R8 with a 24.75" barrel. It shoots the 220gn SGK at around 2780 f/s with 4000MR and the 180gn TSX at around 3020 f/s with RL-16 or VVN550. I also have a load for the 8x68s with the 250gn Woodleigh. Its overall length is 3.54" and gets around 2550 f/s with 4000MR. I know of one guy from another forum who took his 8mmRem Mag with the 250gn Woodleigh up to 2800 f/s. None of the above are max but they are closer to max than not.

I am curious and surprised about Ammo Guides comparison. I will have to try and duplicate it using RL-25. RL-25 seems to me like a powder that is a little to slow for 220gr bullets in those two calibers. Also I think they are fairly compressed. Hopefully I will have something in the next couple of months barring the Coronavirus.

dchamp, I am great-full to know there is another 8x68S owner who can assist me in load development when my 8x68S build is completed..
Will it be fine if I send you the link of the 8x68S build here on the forum so you can post your experiences /knowledge about reloading the two 8 mm ????

 

[Gert Odendaal]

if the 8x68 is using less powder than the 8 mag for more velocity, it is running at higher pressure.
even at the same velocity, the 8x68 is running higher pressure.
bruce.

Bruce this is the beauty of the German designed 8x68S caliber , it is a high performance caliber design, it can tolerate higher pressures due to the great design in the brass by RWS, this brass is of exceptional thickness...trade -off it takes less powder...I extended my magazine well to 91 mm over all length to compensate for the thick wall of the brass..I would like to see what velocities and grouping I can get when the build id completed..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

W

I say let the clients and their PH's make the decision and not worry about it. It's to bad there are so many laws made by so many Do Gooders to interfere with people making their own decisions. But that's a different topic. I like the 9.3x62 or 74r and the .375H&H and the 8x68s.

When you walk into a hunting camp to get a PH to escort you for shooting a buffalo or elephant for camp meat and you have a 9.3 x 62 Mauser in your hands . he would immediately get up from his camp chair, with a huge smile on his face say:" Great caliber choice, used by the great hunters all over the world , let`s go "

 

[grand veneur]

As far as I am concerned , it is only about the 8x68S which is not a cartridge for buffalo hunting , whether legal or not. I also know the cartridge very well and hunted with it in the seventies and eighties , but completely different game species in Greenland and Canada.

I know that one can shot buffaloes with the cartridge 9,3x62 , but that's not what I'm talking about here. I shot with the equivalent cartridge 9,3x74R three buffaloes. Nevertheless , it is by far not my first choice for this purpose.

 

[mark-hunter]

Why not just use enough gun?

I absolutely agree with this!

 

[Gert Odendaal]

The danger of using "enough gun" is a dangerous assumption in Dangerous Game hunting /culling...hunters who depend on the diameter of the bullet to kill thick hide /dangerous game is walking a thin line...it takes their focus off from the only real requirement " shot placement" there are too many examples / write-ups about PH /outfitters telling us about hunters coming to their camps to hunt dangerous game with a 460 Weatherby/.500 Jeffery and other large bore calibers , who really is not capable shooting these rifles...since they think the bullet will kill the elephant , ven if they miss by a few inches it will stun or give the elephant a black -out..like Pondoro ...
Few PH will take a hunter withing twenty meters from an elephant or buffalo to ensure better shot placement ....using enough gun is really not the criteria you need to base your hunting strategy on

This is why the limitations put on a 9.3 x 62 caliber is a mistake...with the correct shot placement this caliber can kill any animal that walks the earth...it seems the past few decades our African game developed a very , very thick skin that needs only large to super bores to kill these animals...I would rather think most hunters do not practice/handle /shoot their rifles enough to install confidence in their shooting skills...it is not the rifle/caliber that is wanting, it is the hunter behind the rifle that is questionable...

 

[grand veneur]

These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it. When you hear these people you also believe that the majority do not master such rifles. The same nonsense I've been reading for decades.

In reality , you can only argue for marginal cartridges if you have also tested the stronger ones , which you unfortunately can’t do if you don’t master these rifles , and really saw no difference. That is not the case , everyone will notice that the bigger one work differently , especially if something goes wrong.

I suggest that all PH use for backup a rifle caliber 9.3x62 for five years , and then we make a statistic , and after may be we can leave all rifles bigger caliber as 9,3mm or .375 aside.

 

[Opposite Pole]

These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it. When you hear these people you also believe that the majority do not master such rifles. The same nonsense I've been reading for decades.

In reality , you can only argue for marginal cartridges if you have also tested the stronger ones , which you unfortunately can’t do if you don’t master these rifles , and really saw no difference. That is not the case , everyone will notice that the bigger one work differently , especially if something goes wrong.

I absolutely agree. Poor shot is a poor shot no matter the rifle. More often than not these discussions turn from medium calibre vs large calibre to medium calibre vs poor shot placement. This is pointless. There’s no rule anywhere saying you have to make this tradeoff. You can be accurate with either. If a hunter is not competent with his gun he ought to practise first, not hunt.

I’ve shot bovines (Water Buffalos and Scrub Bulls)with 375H&H and 470NE, Donkeys with 308Win and 375H&H. Pigs with 223, 308, 9.3x74R and 375H&H. On lung, heart or shoulder shots bigger kills faster and puts them down with far more authority. On CNS shots when the bullet finds its target calibre makes no difference. With poor shots bigger disturbs life/organ functions more, outputs more energy into the target and leaves bigger holes making follow up easier and increasing opportunities to finish the animal off quicker.

Use enough gun, why not?

 

[bruce moulds]

I absolutely agree. Poor shot is a poor shot no matter the rifle. More often than not these discussions turn from medium calibre vs large calibre to medium calibre vs poor shot placement. This is pointless. There’s no rule anywhere saying you have to make this tradeoff. You can be accurate with either. If a hunter is not competent with his gun he ought to practise first, not hunt.

I’ve shot bovines (Water Buffalos and Scrub Bulls)with 375H&H and 470NE, Donkeys with 308Win and 375H&H. Pigs with 223, 308, 9.3x74R and 375H&H. On lung, heart or shoulder shots bigger kills faster and puts them down with far more authority. On CNS shots when the bullet finds its target calibre makes no difference. With poor shots bigger disturbs life/organ functions more, outputs more energy into the target and leaves bigger holes making follow up easier and increasing opportunities to finish the animal off quicker.

Use enough gun, why not?

the bang/flop response, even for a less than perfect but not bad shot, should be the aim.bruce.

 

[bruce moulds]

gert,
no one loves rws brass more than me.
I believe it to be well superior to lapua, the modern god of brass.
that said, it is not magic.
pressure is pressure, and it will take more than some brass (norma and federal come to mind).
however there are no free lunches.
probably rws brass takes more pressure not due to thickness, but better tempering of the web, making it tougher under pressure.
but you can blow primers out of rws cases too, and the difference is not a lot.
they will just last longer than lesser brands with sensible loads, more so than being a better pressure vessel.
it is all about keeping those primer pockets tight.
using factory loads once this is not an issue if you leave cases in the bush.
bruce.

 

[DuncanF]

These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it. When you hear these people you also believe that the majority do not master such rifles. The same nonsense I've been reading for decades.

In reality , you can only argue for marginal cartridges if you have also tested the stronger ones , which you unfortunately can’t do if you don’t master these rifles , and really saw no difference. That is not the case , everyone will notice that the bigger one work differently , especially if something goes wrong.

I suggest that all PH use for backup a rifle caliber 9.3x62 for five years , and then we make a statistic , and after may be we can leave all rifles bigger caliber as 9,3mm or .375 aside.

Now there is a massive generalisation! (These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it.)

I was born in Kenya in the mid 50s. I grew up with a 9,3 x 62. My father had and hunted with an Obendorf Mauser in this calibre for years. I still use a 9,3 x 62 now. I also own a .375 H&H but my preferred rifle for DG remains my 9,3 x 62.

I will always recommend that anyone going after DG use a rifle that they are familiar and confident with and is legal, no matter whether it is a 9,3 or a 505 Gibbs or bigger! A 505 Gibbs in the wrong hands is marginal if not dangerous!

Is this cartridge really marginal? After more than 100 years of use with very little bad said about it. In fact a lot of great testimonials.

I have found this thread an interesting and at times frustrating read, don’t usually get involved but had to now!

 

[Dr Ray]

The issue is
Where it is legal.

 

[DuncanF]

The issue is
Where it is legal.

100% agree

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well, not really. They are certainly close, but the 9.3 has a couple of advantages. A bit more powder capacity, its larger caliber, and its ability to handle bullets up to 320 grs. It is a bit more powerful, though the difference is not large and I doubt any game animal hit with either would know the difference if that is what you meant. But it is still a bit more cartridge in every way.

Sestoppelman
The Whelen will handle 310 grain woodleigh solids RNSP and don't forget the hydro woodleigh that will punch a hole clean thru most things short of a,brontosauras. The Whelen can also be loaded to equal or excede the 9 3 as well.
Cheers mate Bob

 

[Nhoro]

The issue is
Where it is legal.

It can be legal in Zimbabwe depending on the load. Elephant/buffalo/hippo require a calibre greater than 9,2 mm and energy of more than 5,3 kJ. Lion is 7mm and 4,3 kJ and leopard is 7 mm and 3 kJ. Many reloaders manage 5,8 kJ from 286 gr bullets. Bring extra ammo cos National Parks might require that you demonstrate the actual velocity. And even factory loads make it easily makes the lion and leopard criteria.