9.3X62 for Cape Buffalo?

[grand veneur]

Now there is a massive generalisation! (These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it.)

I was born in Kenya in the mid 50s. I grew up with a 9,3 x 62. My father had and hunted with an Obendorf Mauser in this calibre for years. I still use a 9,3 x 62 now. I also own a .375 H&H but my preferred rifle for DG remains my 9,3 x 62.

I will always recommend that anyone going after DG use a rifle that they are familiar and confident with and is legal, no matter whether it is a 9,3 or a 505 Gibbs or bigger! A 505 Gibbs in the wrong hands is marginal if not dangerous!

Is this cartridge really marginal? After more than 100 years of use with very little bad said about it. In fact a lot of great testimonials.

I have found this thread an interesting and at times frustrating read, don’t usually get involved but had to now!

This is about massive generalization against massive generalization !

I always have to listen that the big bore rifles are not mastered. May be , but then give your comments for example to the people of this forum who ask continuously about the recoil of a rifle caliber 458 Lott or 500 Jeffery because he want to buy one , or dream of double rifles caliber 577NE or 600NE. There could be a Problem at the Horizon line. I don't need any comments , I can handle everything between 22LR and 600NE , and as I wrote , I've already shot buffaloes with cartridges like the 9,3x74R or even the 10,75x68.

 

[Red Leg]

These are all arguments from people who do not master such big bore rifles and then try to talk others out of it. When you hear these people you also believe that the majority do not master such rifles. The same nonsense I've been reading for decades.

In reality , you can only argue for marginal cartridges if you have also tested the stronger ones , which you unfortunately can’t do if you don’t master these rifles , and really saw no difference. That is not the case , everyone will notice that the bigger one work differently , especially if something goes wrong.

I suggest that all PH use for backup a rifle caliber 9.3x62 for five years , and then we make a statistic , and after may be we can leave all rifles bigger caliber as 9,3mm or .375 aside.

Oh give me a break. Are you saying only real men use big (strong) calibers? That is a ridiculous generality. Let's see. I currently own a .470, .404 and 500/416. I shoot them all superbly. We can shoot for a beer offhand at 100 meters anytime you wish.

Yet, I choose to use a .375 H&H for buffalo (and plains game) because, for me, it is a better choice. For instance, my R8 is like carrying a 30-06 all day and for the variety of game one sees on a typical hunt, it can not be surpassed for versatility. The only thing that would come close would be a 9.3x62 with, like every caliber, the right bullet. It's issue is local legality for buffalo. No issue with a .375.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Excellent debate, I enjoy this very much..my question being : Are there not enough evidence to get the authorities to mend the exclusion of the 9.3 x 62 caliber as the minimum caliber allowed to use for dangerous game hunting..???

The following statement will get a lot of foreign hunters red in the face , screaming at me/swearing , all the nice stuff when you are enrage by such a unpopular statement...here it goes...

'"You as a visiting hunter from abroad hunting in Africa once or twice a year really do not need to hunt with these super bore rifles when hunting Dangerous game"

Reason: Every dangerous game hunter is according to law accompanied by a highly qualified Professional Hunter who always carry a Large to super bore rifle as a back up for situations where there is something going wrong , a mistake the hunter make...to decrease this situation I suggest you rather use a 9.3 62 through to a .458 Win Mag and concentrate/focus on shot placement ...I am sure there will be less unnecessary follow up situations that endanger the life of PH....

 

[dchamp]

dchamp, I am great-full to know there is another 8x68S owner who can assist me in load development when my 8x68S build is completed..
Will it be fine if I send you the link of the 8x68S build here on the forum so you can post your experiences /knowledge about reloading the two 8 mm ????

You bet

 

[Gert Odendaal]

You bet

dchamp, much, much appreciated Sir

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Members, I have a Coggwell&Harrison .375 H&H Magnum, would not think twice to swop it for a 9.3x62 cal Mauser rifle...the reason being I just love the old German design cartridges...the .375 H&H Magnum do not need any more praise ..since it is also a great, great caliber hunting rifle...

 

[Tanks]

The danger of using "enough gun" is a dangerous assumption in Dangerous Game hunting /culling...hunters who depend on the diameter of the bullet to kill thick hide /dangerous game is walking a thin line...it takes their focus off from the only real requirement " shot placement" there are too many examples / write-ups about PH /outfitters telling us about hunters coming to their camps to hunt dangerous game with a 460 Weatherby/.500 Jeffery and other large bore calibers , who really is not capable shooting these rifles...since they think the bullet will kill the elephant , ven if they miss by a few inches it will stun or give the elephant a black -out..like Pondoro ...
Few PH will take a hunter withing twenty meters from an elephant or buffalo to ensure better shot placement ....using enough gun is really not the criteria you need to base your hunting strategy on

This is why the limitations put on a 9.3 x 62 caliber is a mistake...with the correct shot placement this caliber can kill any animal that walks the earth...it seems the past few decades our African game developed a very , very thick skin that needs only large to super bores to kill these animals...I would rather think most hunters do not practice/handle /shoot their rifles enough to install confidence in their shooting skills...it is not the rifle/caliber that is wanting, it is the hunter behind the rifle that is questionable...

First, I coupled my comment about "Use enough gun" with having plenty of time before one's hunt to become proficient in one's firearm. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Secondly, while one can kill anything that walks on this Earth with rat calibers, assuming proper placement and shot selection, that option is not there at all times. One elephant I shot at 15 meters had only one option, a frontal brain shot. We were not tracking it so the PH with his .458 Lott had a tracker between it and the elephant and not a clear shot at it. I am not sure a rat caliber rifle bullet would have penetrated the honeycomb of the skull. .500 caliber 500 grain solid did.

My view of the whole thing is to "Use enough gun" to get to the vitals from any angle, not just a perfect broadside. Now, if you are looking at your PH to do that for you, that is your prerogative.

 

[Tanks]

...

'"You as a visiting hunter from abroad hunting in Africa once or twice a year really do not need to hunt with these super bore rifles when hunting Dangerous game"

Reason: Every dangerous game hunter is according to law accompanied by a highly qualified Professional Hunter who always carry a Large to super bore rifle as a back up for situations where there is something going wrong , a mistake the hunter make...to decrease this situation I suggest you rather use a 9.3 62 through to a .458 Win Mag and concentrate/focus on shot placement ...I am sure there will be less unnecessary follow up situations that endanger the life of PH....

Read my post above for an example of a situation where the PH didn't have a shot. And again, the perfect shot placement is not always available. Should a hunter give up on a great trophy because the only shot available is a quartering shot and all he has is his rat caliber rifle that might not be capable of going through dense bone to the vitals?

Now, once again use of big bore rifles (super or not) and proficiency with them are not mutually exclusive. I'll also submit that if one does not practice enough to get proficient with his .450 NE, one is not going to practice enough to get proficient with his 9.3x62 either. He'll just miss with a tad less recoil.

 

[grand veneur]

Oh give me a break. Are you saying only real men use big (strong) calibers? That is a ridiculous generality. ...

Did I say something like that ?

No !

I have written the rest of it many times , therefore I will not repeat myself , and if only the 9.3x62 cartridge is available for the buffalo hunt I take it , but if something more suitable is available , a rifle caliber 416 Rigby or 460WM for example , I will prefer it. I have not always had a PH for my security behind me in some countries of Africa.

This discussion actually started because someone writing that the 8x68S cartridge is suitable for buffaloes.

 

[Red Leg]

First, I coupled my comment about "Use enough gun" with having plenty of time before one's hunt to become proficient in one's firearm. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Secondly, while one can kill anything that walks on this Earth with rat calibers, assuming proper placement and shot selection, that option is not there at all times. One elephant I shot at 15 meters had only one option, a frontal brain shot. We were not tracking it so the PH with his .458 Lott had a tracker between it and the elephant and not a clear shot at it. I am not sure a rat caliber rifle bullet would have penetrated the honeycomb of the skull. .500 caliber 500 grain solid did.

My view of the whole thing is to "Use enough gun" to get to the vitals from any angle, not just a perfect broadside. Now, if you are looking at your PH to do that for you, that is your prerogative.

A .375 will do that from any angle with the proper bullet - to include an elephant. Pretty amazing for a - how did you so eloquently put it - a “rat caliber”? A 9.3 would not be far behind. Would it be my preferred choice for elephant - no. But I am sure it has accounted for more than all the others combined since the thirties. I personally think a client lugging around a stopping rifle on a buffalo hunt is not a very effective use of ones time and opportunity set. And as I have noted, I own and handle the others just fine.

 

[Big5]

First, I coupled my comment about "Use enough gun" with having plenty of time before one's hunt to become proficient in one's firearm. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Secondly, while one can kill anything that walks on this Earth with rat calibers, assuming proper placement and shot selection, that option is not there at all times. One elephant I shot at 15 meters had only one option, a frontal brain shot. We were not tracking it so the PH with his .458 Lott had a tracker between it and the elephant and not a clear shot at it. I am not sure a rat caliber rifle bullet would have penetrated the honeycomb of the skull. .500 caliber 500 grain solid did.

My view of the whole thing is to "Use enough gun" to get to the vitals from any angle, not just a perfect broadside. Now, if you are looking at your PH to do that for you, that is your prerogative.

For the most part I don’t find myself in disagreement with much that you’ve said. However, I am curious to know what you consider a ‘rat caliber’ as I’ve not heard that term before.

I do own several big bore rifles including a vintage Rigby .470 double, .460 Wby and a 416 that I shoot quite well (I strongly dislike brakes so none are so equipped). However, I took my .375 H&H on an elephant hunt back in ‘94. Like you we encountered a bull elephant that offered nothing more than a frontal brain shot at a mere 10-11 paces. I took that shot with my .375 using a 300gr solid and dropped the bull where he stood. The photo shows the weeping entrance hole between the eyes.

A medium bore such as a .375 H&H may not be considered ideal for an elephant hunt but it is capable of launching a solid through the honeycomb bone.

No matter what you choose I wish good hunting to you all.

 

[Tanks]

... I personally think a client lugging around a stopping rifle on a buffalo hunt is not a very effective use of ones time and opportunity set...

Care to elaborate beyond your love of .375H&H?

My McMillian Heritage in .375H&H has a 24" barrel shooting .300 grain TSX at 2,520 (4,229 ft/lbs at the muzzle). My .458 B&M which I most likely will use for my buffalo hunt this August has an 18" barrel shooting 420 grain CEB raptor at 2,350 (5,149 ft/lbs). I'd submit that the .375H&H is more unwieldly while providing a lot less energy not to mention a 20% smaller hole starting off.

 

[grand veneur]

... I personally think a client lugging around a stopping rifle on a buffalo hunt is not a very effective use of ones time and opportunity set...

Where is that written that I get upset too !

 

[Gert Odendaal]

View attachment 342072

For the most part I don’t find myself in disagreement with much that you’ve said. However, I am curious to know what you consider a ‘rat caliber’ as I’ve not heard that term before.

I do own several big bore rifles including a vintage Rigby .470 double, .460 Wby and a 416 that I shoot quite well (I strongly dislike brakes so none are so equipped). However, I took my .375 H&H on an elephant hunt back in ‘94. Like you we encountered a bull elephant that offered nothing more than a frontal brain shot at a mere 10-11 paces. I took that shot with my .375 using a 300gr solid and dropped the bull where he stood. The photo shows the weeping entrance hole between the eyes.

A medium bore such as a .375 H&H may not be considered ideal for an elephant hunt but it is capable of launching a solid through the honeycomb bone.

No matter what you choose I wish good hunting to you all.

You said it all" you very much like your .375 H&H Magnum, it means you handle it extremely well, you shoot it extremely well, you shoot with it extremely accurate , therefore you do not flinch at all..so you will always/most of every time you use it do all these things well, even cycling the rounds extremely fast ,without thinking the moment you take aim...that is what is important...even using a 8x68S the way you are able to use the .375/9.3 x 62 / will enable you to shoot anything that walks the earth...now the man behind the rifle and the rifle combined... The rifle is merely an extension of your body..

 

[Gert Odendaal]

I personally think a client lugging around a stopping rifle on a buffalo hunt is not a very effective use of ones time and opportunity set..
I agree with this statement...100% very good statement Sir

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Tanks, what caliber do you use to hunt the rats with Sir???

 

[Tanks]

Tanks, what caliber do you use to hunt the rats with Sir???

.375H&H

In all seriousness, I have nothing against rat calibers, I think the .375 H&H makes a perfect PG rifle for anything under 300 yards. From dik-dik to eland.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Man, if you shoot rats with the .375 H&H Magnum, I am too scared to ask what you use for buffalo???

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Question to owners of the 9x3 x 62 caliber hunting rifle:
What is the smallest animal you have hunted with the 9.3 and what is your largest animal??
Do you use your 9.3 x 62 as a plains game hunting rifle?

 

[Tanks]

Man, if you shoot rats with the .375 H&H Magnum, I am too scared to ask what you use for buffalo???

See post # 192.

For the record I have used .416 on Zebras and Elk, .500 on bears and impala.